AutoCAD MEP Wishes

Reply
*Temporale, Pat
Message 1 of 24 (412 Views)

3D Plumbing Piping

412 Views, 23 Replies
01-20-2003 10:43 PM
Will AutoDesk Building Systems include 3D plumbing piping? What is the use
of creating a complete layout with 3D HVAC, electrical, and building objects
and not being able to include the plumbing piping? This is especially
important for creating sections and when completing coordination drawings.

--
Pat Temporale
PFC Consulting & Design
*[Autodesk], Peter Terwilliger
Message 2 of 24 (412 Views)

Re: 3D Plumbing Piping

11-11-2003 12:03 AM in reply to: *Temporale, Pat
Pat -

As you no doubt now know, 3d plumbing Imperial was introduced by ABS 2004.
3d US Metric was introduced by the ABS 2004 Extension 1.

I hope this helps!
Active Contributor
DuckMan
Posts: 35
Registered: ‎03-29-2006
Message 3 of 24 (412 Views)

Re: 3D Plumbing Piping

03-29-2006 01:45 PM in reply to: *Temporale, Pat
>As you no doubt now know, 3d plumbing Imperial was introduced by ABS 2004

They did a very good job hiding it
Active Member
coffeedrinker88
Posts: 7
Registered: ‎04-14-2006
Message 4 of 24 (412 Views)

Re: 3D Plumbing Piping

04-14-2006 09:06 AM in reply to: *Temporale, Pat
It's possible to do 3D plumbing design with ABS 2006. I recently did it on a project... I had one day to do it and I figured it would be less time consuming to figure out how to do it in 3D than to do the floor plan, isometrics, etc.

But you do have to do some manual set up work before hand.

1st open up the mechanical piping system definitions.
Right click on the "Pipe Definition Systems" in the left hand column and click "New"

Set up your piping layers (ie Domestic Cold water, gas, hot water, sanity sewer, etc). DO NOT start with any of the mechanical piping as a basis.

On the next tab "Design Rules" enter in the abbreviation, but do not specify a system group, the only ones available pertain to mechanical piping. The set your layer key and then manually set up the discipline designator (P), then the major and minor 1. You can set all of them up, but it's not necessary.

This is where it gets tricky (and took me about 30 minutes to finally figure it out). At this point, hit apply and then "OK" or just hit OK. Now go to "Add Pipe" and draw a section of pipe for each new pipe you created. Don't worry about the color or linetype at the moment... Don't worry about connecting the pipe to anything, just draw the pipes on the sheet.

Once that is completed then open the "Piping Systems Definitions" again. Click on a pipe you just created, ignore the 'Rise/Drop" and "Other" tabs and go to "Display Properties" tab.

You will see a list of 8 items that start with "1 line" check the box in the "Style override" column and then click the "Edit display properties" icon in the upper right hand corner. Highlight all display properties in the box and then specify your standards for the "Layer" (this is why it's important to draw the pipes you created, once you draw them, then the layer will show up in the list, if you haven't drawn the pipe yet, then the layer will not appear) "color", "linetype", "lineweight", and "LTscale".

ABS is not as intuitive for the plumbing in 3D as it is for the mechanical, but let's face it plumbing design is considered the red headed step child of the industry...

Hopefully the attachment will work... I've attached a portion of a job I did in 3D. Included is the model tab, work tab, enlarged tab and a sanitary sewer isometric. Once I did the design in 3D, then all the rest was just a matter of changing the settings, for example for the iso metric, I changed the setting from ABS Ceiling -2 to ABS ISO -Schematic, then I clicked the "Model" button at the bottom of the page and changed the 3D view to SW isometric.

Now I'm working on getting the schedules to work properly and that is a task in and of itself.
Active Contributor
DuckMan
Posts: 35
Registered: ‎03-29-2006
Message 5 of 24 (412 Views)

Re: 3D Plumbing Piping

04-14-2006 09:16 AM in reply to: *Temporale, Pat
Ill try this.. but once again, this is a work around that shouldn't have to happen and it still doesnt have all the necessary fittings... just basic stuff.
Active Member
coffeedrinker88
Posts: 7
Registered: ‎04-14-2006
Message 6 of 24 (412 Views)

Re: 3D Plumbing Piping

04-14-2006 09:22 AM in reply to: *Temporale, Pat
I agree and it's my understanding a lot of these problems will be resolved in 2007, but yes there is a lot of manual work to do.

I have found most fittings are included and for the ones that are not, I just pick the one that looks best on the construction documents.

One thing I forgot to mention it's very important to pick the correct "connection" type. For domestic water and gases I used "Brazed" tube Copper. For any waste and vent I use "Glued" thermoplastic PVC, since they don't have a cast iron option. How they cannot include cast iron is beyond me.

One thing I just noticed recently, in the "Pipe fittings" screen, the DWV - Brazed has the most fittings.
Active Contributor
DuckMan
Posts: 35
Registered: ‎03-29-2006
Message 7 of 24 (412 Views)

Re: 3D Plumbing Piping

04-14-2006 09:37 AM in reply to: *Temporale, Pat
Show me a horizontal carrier with an extra inlet.
Active Member
coffeedrinker88
Posts: 7
Registered: ‎04-14-2006
Message 8 of 24 (412 Views)

Re: 3D Plumbing Piping

04-14-2006 10:23 AM in reply to: *Temporale, Pat
I guess everyone does their drawings differently. If for some reason you need to show the carrier on your drawings, I doubt if ABS will be able to help you.

If I need to show a carrier with an extra inlet, I grab one of our stock carrier details and modify it. Or if we don't have it, I contact the manufacturer and have them send me one of theirs (most manufacturers have their details in CAD, but if not they have it in PDF.)
Active Contributor
DuckMan
Posts: 35
Registered: ‎03-29-2006
Message 9 of 24 (412 Views)

Re: 3D Plumbing Piping

04-14-2006 11:23 AM in reply to: *Temporale, Pat
Thats a standard fitting! How else do you cheaply connect a urinal or lav back to back with a wall hung water closet? magic? Do you double the material and labor by using another waste and vent?

Horizontal or vertical, it's the cheapest way.

I reiterate... The plumbing module only has basic fittings.
Active Member
coffeedrinker88
Posts: 7
Registered: ‎04-14-2006
Message 10 of 24 (412 Views)

Re: 3D Plumbing Piping

04-14-2006 12:51 PM in reply to: *Temporale, Pat
I guess if you want to argue about it we can, but it would be kind of pointless. You're talking about two different things. You're talking about actuall installation and what needs to be on the construction documents.

1. A carrier for is a standard piece of equipment used in plumbing systems. That is true

2. You don't need to show a carrier on the drawings and you definitely don't need to show each urinal, wall hung lav, back to back wc, wall hung wc, etc with the carrier.

3. If for some reason, after putting "with carrier" on my schedules and spelling it out in the specs that these fixtures need carriers and providing a cut sheet for the fixture and carrier, they still need a diagram, I provide them with a detail.

4. In the scenario you described, I personally, do a wet vent between the urinal or lav and the water closet and save the cost of the more expensive carrier with an extra inlet. But all my work is with the UPC California or IPC, perhaps wet venting is not allowed in your area.

5. To reiterate... I agree doing plumbing in 3D requires a lot of manual work and is not all inclusive. And it's no where near the level of 3D mechanical.

Lastly, pipe supports are standard fittings as well, but there is no fitting in ABS for pipe supports, does that mean you wouldn't do a design in 3D because you won't be able to show pipe supports? Me... I do a detail showing a typical pipe support(if one is needed) and the in the specifications and tell them how frequently they need to support each type and size of pipe.
Announcements
Are you familiar with the Autodesk Expert Elites? The Expert Elite program is made up of customers that help other customers by sharing knowledge and exemplifying an engaging style of collaboration. To learn more, please visit our Expert Elite website.
Need installation help?

Start with some of our most frequented solutions or visit the Installation and Licensing Forum to get help installing your software.