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MEP 2010 - painfully slow to use

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Message 1 of 53
SteveR...
2328 Views, 52 Replies

MEP 2010 - painfully slow to use

In the last few weeks, we've installed MEP 2010 (an upgrade from 2008) on all computers in our office. 2008 wasn't great, we were hoping for an improvement by going to 64 bit and adding RAM, but we didn't get it. This software is just terrible to use. Is there something we can do to speed it up? We do have some computers with dual quad-core processors, but they don't seem to run any faster than the other machines. Typical computer specs are below.

Everything about 2010 is just painfully slow. There seems to be a lag of 1/2 second to 3 or 4 seconds for every task you do, from editing text to selecting simple devices like receptacles and circuiting. Anytime anyone selects a receptacle (for instance), there is about a 1.5 to 2 second lag before the computer will respond again. Opening files takes minutes, and occasionally it will take so long that you give up and shut down the software (after waiting 10 to 15 minutes). Every process is so painfully slow it seems like our CAD guys spend less than half of their time working and the majority of their time waiting on computers. It is maddening to spend nearly six figures on software and have it operate so poorly.

The file sizes that we are working with are generally in the 1MB to 1.5MB range, typically with 2 to 5 other drawings inserted by x-ref.

Typical Computer specs:
Quad Core Xeon 3.2GHZ processor (Dell Precision 690)
6GB RAM
Windows 7, 64 bit, fresh install
Video: ATI Fire GL V3400

What can we do to speed up the process? Are there settings/features/menus or something else we can disable to make AutoCAD faster? When I open files from projects we did 8 years ago without all of the object oriented devices (receps, fixtures, circuiting, etc.), the files open in seconds and they are very easy to use.
52 REPLIES 52
Message 2 of 53
nbaumgartner
in reply to: SteveR...

It may be your video card. Although I'm just guessing, because I was having similar issues. I just recently built a system for my company.

Specs:
Intel Core i7 920 2.66 GHz, overclocked to 3.2
12 GB Memory
Nvidia Quadro FX 4800
Windows 7 Ultimate, 64-Bit

I was having performance issues so I had to go here (http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/hc?siteID=123112&id=6711853&linkID=9240618) to get the single driver that would work properly. When I would install the latest driver from Nvidia's website, rather than the older driver from the autodesk's Graphics Hardware List, it would perform horribly.

Sometimes I still do have performance issues though. I've tried several different tweaks, but nothing has seemed to make much of a difference.
This may help.(http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/ps/item?siteID=123112&id=2895328&linkID=9240617) If you haven't seen it already. Otherwise, maybe anti-virus software is slowing it down.

.. hope some of this helps. I'm also interested to hear if anyone has some additional performance tuning advice.

AutoCAD MEP 2018
Fabrication CADmep 2018 - V3.05 Database
Dell Precision M6800 workstation - 16GB RAM - NVIDIA Quadro K4100M - 2.8GHz Core i7 - Win10 x64
As of 4-21-17
Message 3 of 53
Martin__Schmid
in reply to: SteveR...

I'd recommend filing a support request so we can dig into the issue(s).

However, one thing I have seen in the past is that migrating a profile from one releast to another can cause this problem. You may want to try going to a 'clean' out of the box profile, opening the drawing, and making the same types of edits, and see if they are any different. Product Support can step you through this process.


Martin Schmid
Product Line Manager
Mechanical Detailing and Electrical Design
Architecture, Engineering, and Construction
Autodesk, Inc.

Message 4 of 53
mike.gustus
in reply to: SteveR...

I feel your pain brother.

I know the LAG you speak of and it drives me nuts. It kills your work flow.

A few things that have worked for me:

1. Turn off all the dynamic input

2. Turn off the quick properties

3. Search this group for the link to download the files and instructions to REVERT BACK TO AUTOCAD CLASSIC and get rid of the ribbons. Autodesk needs to make this an easy option for MEP 2010 and any future releases of Autocad. I HATE RIBBONS. If they provided anything useful or made autocad faster to use I would be all for them, but all they do is SLOW DOWN THE ENTIRE PROGRAM. Make them optional at least geez. It really seems that the only people who actually like this ribbon crap are people who just learned Autocad and that is all they have ever used OR casual Autocad users who just need to open a file an look at it, but EVERY "power user" I know can't stand them.

4. Make sure your video driver is up to date and you have the latest Autocad MEP service packs installed.
Message 5 of 53
heymoa
in reply to: SteveR...

We suffer from slow performance as well.

My only comment on your specs is be aware that a V3400 has about the same hardware grunt as a Radeon 9700-9800 which isn’t very powerful. Also the 'workstation' features that the FireGL drivers have don’t work with Vista so therefore won’t work under Win7 (check the help document under 'Workstation' if you don’t believe me).

Although I don’t think you issues are graphics card based. I am guessing you are on a network with server located files? We seem to suffer from slow network access through MEP. Have you tried copying the files onto a local hard drive, disconnecting the network and seeing if that is quicker?

We recently watched a demonstration of MAP software’s CADMep running on a basic laptop with 2gig of ram and onboard graphics. It had no performance issues compared to similar operations in Autodesk MEP.
Message 6 of 53
mike.gustus
in reply to: SteveR...

Just a heads up MAP software for ELECTRICAL work.

I went through their demonstration, and it was beautiful BUT of course their DEMO was performed on their own laptop on their own DEMO file with their "super duper everything unlocked" hardware dongle installed. It worked perfect and did everything I was looking for. But the sad truth seems that with out everything unlocked in their software and without their carefully set up demonstration file, their CAD-Elec/CAD-MEP software is buggy pre-beta software.


We bought the software a year ago, and still to this day we have yet to get it to work properly. And very little customer support.


From my experience their software seems designed for HVAC and Mech. Piping work and for that use it seems to be the best thing out there, but for electrical it needs a lot of work. For instance if you try to draw a conduit run, the fittings are part of the piping library, and with electrical you don't have the piping library unlocked so basically as soon as you get to a point where you need any conduit fitting, the entire program crashes. This means you can't draw conduit, which means the program is useless for about 90% of what we do.


After a lot of back and forth, and hours on the phone with them, they sent me an update that didn't do anything, after that I can't seem to get anyone on the phone except for an occasional sales person who wants me to buy more licenses, even though their program doesn't work. The frustration I endure dealing with MAP software makes me HAPPY to do deal with Autodesk products. Which in a way is pretty sad, because really it is just the lesser of two evils. At least I get a response from Autodesk.
Message 7 of 53
peachsb
in reply to: SteveR...

Wow. I can't believe the responses you got Steve. It is not you, really. It is the MEP.

I, too, have experienced what you are speaking of and I don't think anyone here gets it. I just upgraded from 2009 vanilla to 2010 MEP. I run my own company and having just personally shelled out what I did for this garbage called 2010 MEP is unsettling to say the least.

First off, the issue I am experiencing (and you as well I assume) IS NOT a "you need better hardware" or "tweak your settings". I feel very confident that I have both of those addressed and yet I am seeing the same problem. MEP functinos are just outright sloooooow.

Hardware:
I am running win 7 ultimate 64 bit, 8 gigs of RAM, quad core extreme proc, ridiculously fast SSD's and three video cards in SLI. My procs and video cards are supercooled by chillers. Every piece of hardware in my PC is hand selected for highest quality/fastest speed and is about 1 year old. I am a total computer geek, have been a custom system builder for 15 years and by any stretch of the imagination I have total overkill when it comes to hardware. Benchmarks lead me to believe the very fastest workstation commercially available today has about a 18% edge on my system.

Software and experience:
I have extensive experience with AutoCAD having mastered R10, R11, R12, R13, R14, 2000, 2000i, 2002, 2004, 2006, 2008, 2009. My system as described above can run previous versions of AutoCAD at a blistering pace and the vanilla functions of 2010 seem to be fine too. Case-in-point, I plot full size sheets to PDF about 3 pages per second (Hint - Use CutePDF with "Append" Feature - Blows Adobe away in speed).

But when it comes to MEP specific functions like laying pipe or ductwork or tossing in any form of a smart fixture there is regularly a HUGE pause intermittently as the app is loading a library of sorts or God knows what. I use nearly exclusively hot keys and custom lisps and as such I run several commands a second (depending on commands obviously). So a multi-second delay is an absolute killer to my productivity. This si honestly why I justify stupid money on hardware.

The delays are so bad, they reminded of running Word 97 in Windows 95. Oh yeah.

Plus, I can't believe Autodesk actually REMOVED the menubar and is forcing me to go out on forums like this to find one (which is why I even saw this thread).

Good luck Steve. Lets hope Autodesk cleans their code soon like Windows did with 7. The MEP features look very promising, if they were so freaking slow.

One other thing I should add. I have only been running MEP 2010 for about 2 days now, so this is a "first impression". I will repost if I find a way to improve the MEP side of things.
Message 8 of 53
mike.gustus
in reply to: SteveR...

Make the changes I suggested and the program will run and look pretty much exactly like the pre-2010 versions. I have no lag at this point.
Message 9 of 53
mike.gustus
in reply to: SteveR...

Here is the zip file to set up the classic Autocad workspace with menus/buttons instead of ribbons. Follow the directions included in the zip file step by step.

And Make sure to turn off the dynamic input and quick properties.
Message 10 of 53
nbaumgartner
in reply to: SteveR...

> {quote:title=peachsb wrote:}{quote}
>
> The delays are so bad, they reminded of running Word 97 in Windows 95. Oh yeah.

haha, nice

Well you know, it would be nice if Steve posted back and gave us an update... Steve..? Are ya there Steve?

I've just been thinking, since I've had other issues with some games on 64-Bit Windows 7 as well.. Could most of these problems be a compatibility issue between 64-Bit Win7 and MEP 2010? Because I was on a 32-Bit Vista system with MEP 2010 before. It was a Gateway that my company had picked up from Best Buy, with a GeForce 8600 GT. The entire computer maybe cost around $1000. Now I've built this new system (specs are in second post) for around $3400, and it doesn't seem to be running much better than my old computer. Now I've been curious to see if it would run better if I put 32-bit Vista on my current system.

Obviously very frustrating...

AutoCAD MEP 2018
Fabrication CADmep 2018 - V3.05 Database
Dell Precision M6800 workstation - 16GB RAM - NVIDIA Quadro K4100M - 2.8GHz Core i7 - Win10 x64
As of 4-21-17
Message 11 of 53
mike.gustus
in reply to: SteveR...

Right now, I have MEP 2009 and 2010 on a 32bit XP laptop and both are running pretty smooth and pretty much the same as far as responsiveness.

My other laptop is a 64bit Windows 7w/64bit MEP 2010 and it is responsive also.


I believe that the problem is that out of the box, with the default settings, Autocad MEP is very sluggish and laggy, and there is no simple, intuitive way to go through and change these settings. It took me a lot of time and trial and error before I got it the way I feel comfortable with it.
Message 12 of 53
SteveR...
in reply to: SteveR...

I turned off all dynamic input, all quick properties, and turned ribbons off and put most of my commonly used commands on the quick access toolbar. That has helped some, but there are still times when I'm waiting tens of seconds or even minutes for AutoCAD to do something. Several times when it has crashed all of my commands on the quick access toolbar disappear when I restart so I get to re-set those. Like some of you said, I think it is just the way the code is written and how so many useless "features" are turned on by default. I'm not really a "power user", I'm an engineer who probably only uses CAD an hour or two a day, but I need to know how to speed it up so our CAD guys aren't spending 3hrs a day waiting on Autocad.

So, I guess the summary is that if you turn off all of the "functionality" so you just have lines and blocks, the software is somewhat usable. Nice.

Thanks for the help so far, I really do appreciate it.
Message 13 of 53
mike.gustus
in reply to: SteveR...

I do some pretty complex 3D work in Autocad MEP and I don't have the lag/wait problem unless the file is really really large and/or has 3rd party object enablers running to see files that were created with CadDuct or other types of 3rd party software. What kind of files are you working on where you are experiencing these problems or is it any time you have MEP objects in a drawing it lags out?
Message 14 of 53
peachsb
in reply to: SteveR...

Well, I have only been using MEP a matter of days, and for that matter have very little experience with the MEP objects. It is a learning curve I hoep to tackle soon. Using the program outside of that it is not sluggish. However, when I select to draw a pipe or duct, there is a long pause during the start up of that object. As I played with it, the pauses seemed intermittent through out the creation process of drawing with smart objects, e.g. inserting smart objects from the library, or drawing with a smart piping. Maybe I want too much, but when I hit a command, I want it to be as responsive as when I hit copy or line. I want it now, no delay.

I was looking for something else as I was browsing through the posts when I landed on this one, and I probably went off the handle a bit premature. My expectation is that I will over the next month or so dive into it further and look for some speed tweaks to disable functions I do not plan to use.

Anything that I specifically find that speeds it up for me I will post here.
Message 15 of 53
Martin__Schmid
in reply to: SteveR...

Hi peachsb...

The delay you're seeing may be due to some network or disk latency.. and inserting a Pipe/Duct is an inherently more complex operation... vs Copying an object that already exists, or drawing a Line which is not dependent on external content files.

In a 'new' drawing, when you use these commands, AMEP first has to check if the Layer Key Style you have configured as default is in the drawing, if it isn't, it loads it in. Subsequently, when you use these commands, it has to reference the Pipe/Duct catalog, which, if you have a slow network connection to your content, may experience a greater than normal delay vs. if the content is local.

As you are modelling in AutoCAD MEP, if the object style already exists in the drawing, (i.e., such as a 6" commercial pipe) it won't need to access the catalog... however, if you are routing pipe, and are constantly inserting unique objects, there will be a slight lag for it to load the content from the catalog... it shouldn't be 10's of seconds or minutes, but a slight perceptable delay.

Now, as a caution, I have seen where customers have tried migrating forward profiles from prior releases of AutoCAD, and in some cases even MEP, which, for some reason beyond my knowledge, causes more significant delays in these types of operations.


Martin Schmid
Product Line Manager
Mechanical Detailing and Electrical Design
Architecture, Engineering, and Construction
Autodesk, Inc.

Message 16 of 53
SteveR...
in reply to: SteveR...

How do I file a support request? Is this the paid support that is listed on the Autodesk Services and Support page? We have other issues that are also causing us problems, like quick access buttons that disappear at random times.

I certainly hope we don't have to pay to request basic bug fixes for software that cost us over $60k initially plus $15k per year.
Message 17 of 53
ecnelov
in reply to: SteveR...

We are having similar slow performance issues with brand new high performance PC's and it is very frustrating.

Our company just made the switch for a few of our users from ACAD 2002 to the AutoCAD MEP 2010 and Revit MEP suite.

Both Revit and AutoCAD 2010 run incredibly slow.

I am currently working on a project in Autocad MEP 2010 that only has 5 sheets total, but it's all 3d work. However, we would consider this a very small project for us. When working on constructs, everything moves along pretty quickly. However, once we create views and sheets it takes forever to do anything. When doing some final markups today that normally would have taken me a half hour in 2002, it has taken me about 8 hours in 2010 just due to the time it takes to load up a new drawing, save a drawing, or change view scale. Not to mention that it will randomly hang up when I select an elevation reference block.

I have turned off the tooltips/communication center and turned off the ribbon. We are working off of a network, but based on what my network transfer monitor says it has nothing to do with a bottleneck in the network.

Please help me! The whole company will soon be upgrading and it would be crippling to us if we can't become more effiecient with this program we just invested so much money in.

PC specs:

Intel Xeon Quad Core 2.40 Ghz
8 GB Ram
Windows Vista Business 64-Bit (running 64-bit MEP 2010 and 64-bit Revit MEP)
NVIDIA Quadro FX 580 (with latest Autodesk certified driver)

It must be an Autocad programming issue, right?
Message 18 of 53
nbaumgartner
in reply to: SteveR...

> {quote:title=ecnelov wrote:}{quote}

> It must be an Autocad programming issue, right?

Probably. Who knows? It's frustrating. Seems like the better my hardware has gotten, the worse autocad has performed.

I've got 12 gigs of ram in my system and it all seems to be worthless. My cpu and ram usage widget on my screen has never shown my ram usage going higher than 4 gigs. Maybe I'm wrong, but shouldn't autocad be using more memory than that as long as I've got it?

AutoCAD MEP 2018
Fabrication CADmep 2018 - V3.05 Database
Dell Precision M6800 workstation - 16GB RAM - NVIDIA Quadro K4100M - 2.8GHz Core i7 - Win10 x64
As of 4-21-17
Message 19 of 53
tyler
in reply to: SteveR...

I logged in again (at 2:14am) just to complain about this pathetic POS that is MEP 2010 and, satisfyingly, saw this thread straightaway. Thank goodness Adesk can't claim it's only my office full of brand new workstations that's the problem. I also am a small engineering company that compromised A LOT (soo understated) to buy all new 64-bit workstations to finally get away from Acad 2008. We didn't renew our subscription for 2009 because the graphics were unbelievably slow and, frankly, because I was disgusted that 2009 was still running 32-bit and still completely single threaded. It's PATHETIC that we could never use the memory we bought for old workstations due to 32-bit limitations (swapping our butts off daily)! So we were optimistic when we heard 2010 MEP was finally 64bit and would allow us to take our foot off the brakes and finally refresh our workstations. We bought maxed out workstations (~10k a piece, recognizing the true cost of slow) hoping that we could FINALLY take advantage of huge ram...and hoped like hell that we might finally see the tiniest bit of multi-threading at least when plotting 3d drawings. Amazingly, even after a 12GB ram, dual quad core xeons, Quadro 5800 ($5k) graphics cards, the system is so damn slow and buggy it's indescribable. I literally could go on and on but it's so systemic it's pointless. Filing out a ticket would just be insulting. Try using it yourself Autodesk developers!...on something other than a some little sample drawing.

I've been using autocad 60hrs a week since v2.5. I'm so livid at this I just cant explain. Everything is 1/10th speed if the project navigator is open. Fill it with 120 sheet project and you are simply doomed (Adesk, please don't say a feature like this is meant to manage a max 10 sheet job or performance "may" suffer either please) I simply CANNOT run my *** damn raster design 2010 as it crashes every 5 minutes....complete right off...can't wait for raster design 2011. I won't tell you how many weeks of crashing every 5 mins to figure out it was Raster Design 2010 with MEP 2010 that's completely broken. Adesk, why don't you try actually installing RD2010 on a machine with MEP2010 and just project navigator with a setup of any size. If it doesn't crash for you chronically every 5 mins or less, I will personally drive up there and uninstall it for you!!! (I'll bring my ~$2k RD2010 dvd coaster with me...you can have it).

Plotting our 3d drawings still plots all viewports in serial (is that not a huge opportunity for parallel processing)...I mean damn it, it still takes 45-60min to plot a single detailed 3d construction drawing while watching 1 of my 8 cores pegged. STUPID! I avoid the layer dialog like the plague to avoid the open/close latencies... dramatically worse when project navigator is open. I'm changing our whole cad standards and writing/revising tons of lisp programs to try to get some semblance of flow back. My staff is about to mutiny because of this crap. I don't have any more time to write about this pathetic situation. I could go on and on about this piece of crap for hours.

Autodesk's stupid subscription model drives devs to produce features and timely april releases. Dump some alpha grade POS and move on to the next version so the subscription customers can get their release on. HAS ANY OF THE MEP TEAM USED THIS SOFTWARE!!!!!!!! I have a hard time believing it...the MEP team must either be very angry at their management for forcing them to release incomplete software or you should all be fired. I'm sorry to say that (kind of), but I am losing my sanity, and money hand over fist here! Another wasted bunch of premium workstations? This acad makes 2008 look great w/respect to speed and stability. We talk at lunch everyday about how much work it would be to go back to 2008 32bit (OS downgrades, wasted new software, 2010-to-2008 file format down conversion, many projects in now converted to project navigator...sigh). No going back...too much time/cost...no CAD alternatives that wouldn't be huge loss converting too...yet no time for enduring this....THE dilemna.

I could give a crap about the "new features" in 2011 if I could trade them all for stability and speed...how about a damn stable app?! That doesn't sell subscriptions. Does anyone at adesk remember how the first release of r14 was so unstable (deleting dwgs and baks upon saves, etc), yet, adesk released fix after fix and ended up making r14 one of the best releases of acad ever? You won us all back with the final release of that...why can't you fix your current versions the same way? Rebuild your foundation of quality again. Is all the talent going to Revit? How about parallel viewport processing for plotting? How many hours per week could we save with just parallel vport plotting? How about dumping that vb hackfest mentality and exercise some Test Driven Development? How about buying back this crappy software, workstations, and paying us to revert our projects back to 2008. I'd take Microstation, inferior or not, if not for sooo damn many years of acad in the office.

~3am, under extreme pressure to get a project out, and I spend more time waiting on this POS 2010 than working! I simply had to stop to complain...months of this BS boiled up. I'm furious! I want value! I want to produce! This is the worst acad since r13 windows. Remember how fast we were on r14 and r12? As fast as you could think...on a 486 33MHz. What the hell is happening AutoDesk!?
Message 20 of 53
tyler
in reply to: SteveR...

Exactly. Same thing with me exactly... I'm just amazed we're all putting up with this. See my illiterate sounding raging 3am rant below. I've lost it. Here comes 2011 any day. Really, no reason to not put 2011 into production immediately. It can't be any worse than 2010. 2011 should be a fixed 2010 for free.... I asked to be on the 2011 beta because I thought the beta had to be more stable than the 2010 production release. They ignored me. My other posts are on this forum somewhere.

If 2011 is the same, I'm going to make my own web page rant blog just for, well, therapy. I fear this is going to put me out of business. I estimate if I wasn't waiting on Acad that I'd be ~5x faster. I'm not exaggerating. Your post is right on.

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