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Mr. Sid Image Shifting

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Message 1 of 31
Cadguru42
3345 Views, 30 Replies

Mr. Sid Image Shifting

I have a Mr. Sid image that loads correctly in the model space (see screenshot). It was inserted using MAPIINSERT. In my layout, however, the image has shifted as shown in the attached screenshot. When I do a print preview, the image has shifted again, also shown in a screen shot. 

 

Why is the image shifting at all and why is it different between the layout and print preview?

C3D 2022-2024
Windows 10 Pro
32GB RAM
30 REPLIES 30
Message 2 of 31
kevinreed2
in reply to: Cadguru42

I feel like ive had this problem before, either with a sid or with the arcgisonline addon that displays tiled map services.  i remember feeling like it was a graphics card issue.  Does the image shift differntly when you zoom in and out?  maybe try turning harware aceleration on and off to see if it makes a difference.  sorry i cant help much, i think my fix was to just unload the tile service or sid and use a geotiff. 

Message 3 of 31
Alfred.NESWADBA
in reply to: Cadguru42

Hi,

 

>> It was inserted using MAPIINSERT

Does that happen with boh Civil3D versions? 2012 and 2013?

Have you tried to not reference the images with _MAPIINSERT, but instead with _MAPCONNECT?

 

- alfred -

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alfred NESWADBA
Ingenieur Studio HOLLAUS ... www.hollaus.at ... blog.hollaus.at ... CDay 2024
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(not an Autodesk consultant)
Message 4 of 31
Cadguru42
in reply to: Alfred.NESWADBA


@Alfred.NESWADBA wrote:

Hi,

 

>> It was inserted using MAPIINSERT

Does that happen with boh Civil3D versions? 2012 and 2013?

Have you tried to not reference the images with _MAPIINSERT, but instead with _MAPCONNECT?

 

- alfred -


I just checked in 2012 and it also is happening. I never use FDO for images because it's a pain to deal with, but that's another discussion. 

C3D 2022-2024
Windows 10 Pro
32GB RAM
Message 5 of 31
Alfred.NESWADBA
in reply to: Cadguru42

Hi,

 

>> I never use FDO for images

It might be interesting to at least try it as test ... just to know if you have the shifting also with that type of referencing.

 

- alfred -

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alfred NESWADBA
Ingenieur Studio HOLLAUS ... www.hollaus.at ... blog.hollaus.at ... CDay 2024
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(not an Autodesk consultant)
Message 6 of 31
Cadguru42
in reply to: Alfred.NESWADBA


@Alfred.NESWADBA wrote:

Hi,

 

>> I never use FDO for images

It might be interesting to at least try it as test ... just to know if you have the shifting also with that type of referencing.

 

- alfred -


FDO is horrible from a user standpoint regarding images. I shouldn't have to refresh the layer every time I zoom or pan. I constantly zoom and pan while working and adding a step like that is just horrible UI design. Then you have the issue of having the MAPWSPACE pallet up just for a single item. I don't want to have that open unless I'm working with our ArcSDE, which I try to avoid as often as possible. MAPIINSERT is great because it loads the entire image into memory and makes navigating the modelspace very snappy. 

 

This shifting is happening in a rotated viewport where the UCS>3 Point method was used. The shifting doesn't occur when the UCS hasn't been changed. This doesn't happen with GeoTIFFs, just with the Mr. Sid images.

C3D 2022-2024
Windows 10 Pro
32GB RAM
Message 7 of 31
Alfred.NESWADBA
in reply to: Cadguru42

Hi,

 

sorry, I never told you that you have to use FDO in the future. I just wanted to know if the problem also exists when the raster-file is referenced via FDO too (as that might be an info for isolating the problem, or at least to come more close to the source of the problem)

 

>> Then you have the issue of having the MAPWSPACE pallet

You don't have to have the MAPWSPACE open 😉

 

>> This doesn't happen with GeoTIFFs, just with the Mr. Sid images.

So that might be your solution then (to convert the images to TIFF)?

 

>> This shifting is happening in a rotated viewport where the UCS>3 Point method was used

And after rotating the UCS have you done _PLAN or what was the command that rotates the view?

I can't reproduce it (with C3D2013, my SID-files) using:

  -   within the viewport _UCS 3P .... and then _PLAN to current ucs

  -   rotating the complete viewport in modelspace

  -   using northarrow-functionality (MAPINSERTPLE)

 

- alfred -

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alfred NESWADBA
Ingenieur Studio HOLLAUS ... www.hollaus.at ... blog.hollaus.at ... CDay 2024
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(not an Autodesk consultant)
Message 8 of 31
Cadguru42
in reply to: Alfred.NESWADBA


@Alfred.NESWADBA wrote:

Hi,

 

sorry, I never told you that you have to use FDO in the future. I just wanted to know if the problem also exists when the raster-file is referenced via FDO too (as that might be an info for isolating the problem, or at least to come more close to the source of the problem)

 

>> Then you have the issue of having the MAPWSPACE pallet

You don't have to have the MAPWSPACE open 😉

 

>> This doesn't happen with GeoTIFFs, just with the Mr. Sid images.

So that might be your solution then (to convert the images to TIFF)?

 

>> This shifting is happening in a rotated viewport where the UCS>3 Point method was used

And after rotating the UCS have you done _PLAN or what was the command that rotates the view?

I can't reproduce it (with C3D2013, my SID-files) using:

  -   within the viewport _UCS 3P .... and then _PLAN to current ucs

  -   rotating the complete viewport in modelspace

  -   using northarrow-functionality (MAPINSERTPLE)

 

- alfred -


I did the UCS/Plan route. I stopped using the automatic north arrow as it's causing other issues with viewports that are locked still panning to 0,0. As to switching to a TIFF instead of the Sid image, that's not really a solution in my case. The Mr. Sid image is for our entire county and is 2.5GB in size. Mr. Sid images are known for their great compression and if I have to convert that to a TIFF the file would be massive in size. It's already huge as a Sid image, I couldn't image how large it'd be as a TIFF. 

C3D 2022-2024
Windows 10 Pro
32GB RAM
Message 9 of 31
Cadguru42
in reply to: Cadguru42

I just checked this out in 2014 and it's still happening. 

C3D 2022-2024
Windows 10 Pro
32GB RAM
Message 10 of 31
nkg2
in reply to: Cadguru42

Not to sound ignorant but could it be wrong based on printer setup for the layout tabs? 

***Viewer/Reader Discretion is Advised***
Autodesk 2022- Architectural, Engineering and Construction Subscription & Infraworks
Windows 10 Professional, x64, Microsoft Surface Pro 3
Message 11 of 31
Cadguru42
in reply to: nkg2


@nkg2 wrote:

Not to sound ignorant but could it be wrong based on printer setup for the layout tabs? 


Considering this only applies to Mr. Sid images, it should not have anything to do with the printer. It also happens no matter what printer is selected. I've tried the DWG to PDF, DWF, our HP 4000 plotter, my desktop printer, etc. and they all have the exact same problem. 

C3D 2022-2024
Windows 10 Pro
32GB RAM
Message 12 of 31
nkg2
in reply to: Cadguru42

It was worth a shot.  I know sometimes for me my stuff gets shifted when going from say one HP plotter to say an HP11x17 plotter.   I was reading one of your other posts about importing drawings with no coordinates to avoid the shifts and not reading the units on the elevations so I am wondering if it is all related but it is odd that your model space is correct but layout does not.   I hope you get an answer soon!  Have you submited a ticket?  If so and it gets resolved please post!

***Viewer/Reader Discretion is Advised***
Autodesk 2022- Architectural, Engineering and Construction Subscription & Infraworks
Windows 10 Professional, x64, Microsoft Surface Pro 3
Message 13 of 31
Cadguru42
in reply to: Cadguru42

This issue is still happening and I don't know what to do. This is with a completely different drawing. It has something to do with rotating the UCS in the viewport to get things aligned in a layout. That's the only thing I can think of that would cause the shifting in the layout and not in the model space. This doesn't happen with TIFFs, but only Mr. Sid images.

 

As a side note, apparently Autodesk has decided that images inserted directly in the message cannot be larger than 333k. Screenshots in PNG are almost always 1mb, so I guess this new limit will prevent me from insert images directly in the message like I used to.

 

C3D 2022-2024
Windows 10 Pro
32GB RAM
Message 14 of 31
Cadguru42
in reply to: Cadguru42

I thought I'd try using an IMAGECLIP on the Sid image, then use Raster Design to save it as another format. Apparently Raster Design doesn't like Mr. Sid as it just sits there. I've been waiting over 15 minutes and it hasn't shown any progress on the export (still at 0%).

 

This is extremely frustrating considering I need to get this image working by tomorrow night for a public meeting. 

C3D 2022-2024
Windows 10 Pro
32GB RAM
Message 15 of 31
Alfred.NESWADBA
in reply to: Cadguru42

Hi,

 

>> This is extremely frustrating considering I need to get this image working by tomorrow night

Convert the SID-files with IrfanView and create the tfw file ... one minute and finished.

Another option: even if you call FDO usage of images painful (speed is not as fast, ok) ==> it might (will) help for plotting at correct coords.

 

- alfred -

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alfred NESWADBA
Ingenieur Studio HOLLAUS ... www.hollaus.at ... blog.hollaus.at ... CDay 2024
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(not an Autodesk consultant)
Message 16 of 31
Cadguru42
in reply to: Alfred.NESWADBA


@Alfred.NESWADBA wrote:

Hi,

 

>> This is extremely frustrating considering I need to get this image working by tomorrow night

Convert the SID-files with IrfanView and create the tfw file ... one minute and finished.

Another option: even if you call FDO usage of images painful (speed is not as fast, ok) ==> it might (will) help for plotting at correct coords.

 

- alfred -


Kind of sad that I pay for Raster Design and it can't handle this. I tried converting the clipped Sid to a GeoTIFF last night before I left work. I come in this morning and it says "Not enough free space. Choose a drive with enough space". Apparently 168GB is not enough space for Raster Design to convert the clipped 2.5GB Sid file to a GeoTIFF. 

 

I've learned two things from this. First, Autodesk doesn't handle Mr. Sid images correctly in viewports that have been rotated. Second, Raster Design cannot handle conversion of a Mr. Sid image to a GeoTIFF or PNG. Both of those items are marketed and sold as issues that Map (C3D) and Raster Design can do. So now I have to rely on a piece of software that isn't made by Autodesk in order to use something that Autodesk says will work. 

C3D 2022-2024
Windows 10 Pro
32GB RAM
Message 17 of 31
Alfred.NESWADBA
in reply to: Cadguru42

Hi,

 

>> now I have to rely on a piece of software that isn't made by Autodesk

Sorry, It was just an idea to help you!

 

...and haven't you tried the FDO-approach just for plot?

 

- alfred -

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alfred NESWADBA
Ingenieur Studio HOLLAUS ... www.hollaus.at ... blog.hollaus.at ... CDay 2024
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(not an Autodesk consultant)
Message 18 of 31
Cadguru42
in reply to: Alfred.NESWADBA


@Alfred.NESWADBA wrote:

Hi,

 

>> now I have to rely on a piece of software that isn't made by Autodesk

Sorry, It was just an idea to help you!

 

...and haven't you tried the FDO-approach just for plot?

 

- alfred -


I have added the Sid image from the FDO. However, No matter what I set the Draw Order to, the image is always on top of my linework. This is one of the reasons I stopped using FDO for raster images. Maybe it's something simple with the newer versions, but it used to be a pain to get the draw order to work correctly.

C3D 2022-2024
Windows 10 Pro
32GB RAM
Message 19 of 31
Alfred.NESWADBA
in reply to: Cadguru42

Hi,

 

>> No matter what I set the Draw Order to

If you have used the AutoCAD command _DRAWORDER within your project, the Map3D setting of draworders will not continue to work without issues. So either avoid the command (as long as you can) or - and that may help now - select those FDO-referenced images and run again the AutoCAD command _DRAWORDER to bring the images back.

 

It's quite hard to try to help you when every answer coming back is criticism.

Again, I just try to help you to get your work finished until tomorrow. But it get's more and more hard.

 

- alfred -

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alfred NESWADBA
Ingenieur Studio HOLLAUS ... www.hollaus.at ... blog.hollaus.at ... CDay 2024
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(not an Autodesk consultant)
Message 20 of 31
fcernst
in reply to: Alfred.NESWADBA

Alfred please stop saying you're sorry...!

 

We very much appreciate your workarounds to try and keep us moving.

 

We are angry at Autodesk, not you, for not having the promised and highly marketed functionality that we have paid for ready to go when we need it to meet our deadlines. Lots of pressure.

 

Thank you

Fred



Fred Ernst, PE
C3D 2024
Ernst Engineering
www.ernstengineering.com

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