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Joining FDO-Polygons loses Islands (MapFeatureMerge)

14 REPLIES 14
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Message 1 of 15
Alfred.NESWADBA
773 Views, 14 Replies

Joining FDO-Polygons loses Islands (MapFeatureMerge)

Hi,

 

I have prepared a video and a sdf-file for you to reproduce my problem, and that is:

 

I have two polygons in my sample-sdf, one having an island. I start the command _MAPFEATUREMERGE to join two polygons. Having done that the island is lost. I can't believe that this (losing the islands) is "as designed".

 

I have tried this with:

  • WinXP(32bit) Map3D2012 (32bit)
  • Win7(64bit) Civil3D2010 (32bit)
  • Win7(64bit) Civil3D2011 (64bit)
  • Win7(64bit) Civil3D2012 (64bit)
  • Win7(64bit) Map3D2012 (64bit)

 

I have tried this with:

  • SDF
  • SHP

 

And I don't know what I'm doing wrong?

 

Thx in advance, - alfred -

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Alfred NESWADBA
Ingenieur Studio HOLLAUS ... www.hollaus.at ... blog.hollaus.at ... CDay 2024
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(not an Autodesk consultant)
14 REPLIES 14
Message 2 of 15

Hi,

 

just want to push my question to top as I didn't get any response.

To get no response may be based on bad question/not enough information/not reproducable on others workstations/.... if I gave not enough information or did anything not common to do when asking for help then please let me know that!

 

Every feedback is welcome, thanx to everyone in advance!

 

- alfred -

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Alfred NESWADBA
Ingenieur Studio HOLLAUS ... www.hollaus.at ... blog.hollaus.at ... CDay 2024
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(not an Autodesk consultant)
Message 3 of 15

Sounds like a serious bug, herr Alfred, even affecting the brand new release 2012.

I've tried with other "holed" topologies in Civl3D 2010, getting your same bad effect.

I hope that someone of Autodesk folks will read this desperate "message in a bottle"...

Message 4 of 15

Hi,

 

In the meanwhile we have Map3D 2014 and this bug is not solved.

Dear Autodesk: why isn't that solved for years now, knowing that every customer will create defects in his data when using that command. What are the plans with that (besides of putting your customers to other products).

 

Sorry for that words, but after that number of years I guess everyone will understand that.

 

- alfred -

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Alfred NESWADBA
Ingenieur Studio HOLLAUS ... www.hollaus.at ... blog.hollaus.at ... CDay 2024
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(not an Autodesk consultant)
Message 5 of 15
parkr4st
in reply to: Alfred.NESWADBA

Definetely a problem that needs fixing

 

You can get to your desired results with a bit of work.  Create a new feature to plug the hole and check in.  Join the two polygons as you show in your movie.  Do feature overlay intersect of the layer onto itself and the island will reappear as a seperate feature in the output of the intersect.  You can then select and delete or move the island.

 

dave

Message 6 of 15
Alfred.NESWADBA
in reply to: parkr4st

Hi Dave,

 

thank you for your answer, and yes, you might be able to handle that manually with workarounds.

But just imagine you have a flooded area (of a lake or river) with a lot of smaller and larger islands (1000++) and you want to add some area-polygons to make the flooded area larger ..... ;(

The additional problem in cases with small islands is: if you run the function you might even not recognize that your islands are gone!

 

Well, I can try to import the  FDO-objects, create a Map-topology, modify that with Map-topology-functions and export it then back to SDF or SHP. And even that way: I don't want to think about how many hours then will be needed to get a clean topology + I don't want to think about what happens with a amount of data if the source SDF has 100000+ polygons, to import it and then to try to clean it and create a topology ... hours or days lost because ....

 

At least currently Autodesk does something like 2+2=5 (area of the first poly (excluding the island, of course) PLUS area of the second poly) and do not repair that since I first sent them the info in 2010.

And I'm getting more and more angry with every hour I loose because of that workarounds (or with every support case I have to describe customers of Autodesk that they have to avoid to use that function or they damage their data).

 

- alfred -

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alfred NESWADBA
Ingenieur Studio HOLLAUS ... www.hollaus.at ... blog.hollaus.at ... CDay 2024
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(not an Autodesk consultant)
Message 7 of 15
parkr4st
in reply to: Alfred.NESWADBA

I imagined.  Now we are into a 3D problem as presumably to enlarge the lake you elevated the water level.   The only other way I know of is to remove the islands with a big shovel and not raise the lake or dig out the lake shore.:)  and of course the opposite is true if you lower the lake level, the islands would take out more of the water surface unless the islands are vertically sided.

 

so to 3D this lake would you need contours from which you query a particular elevation, mapexport a sdf with elevation and area to object data and the run the analysis to get surface area?

 

if you draw one big polygon for the outer lake shore and smaller polygons for islands and do analysis source the lake and overlay the islands with identity you end up with a lake full of islands.  you can then query all polygons area less than the lake area and do something with them provided you have the area data to work with.

 

probably autodesk can't get this into their product as someone else beat them to a patent or copyright on how to do it.

 

dave

Message 8 of 15
Alfred.NESWADBA
in reply to: parkr4st

Hi,

 

>> Now we are into a 3D problem as presumably to enlarge the lake you elevated the water level

No, it's just a sample as I had that previously, and for that job I don't raise the level of the water, I don't use 3D, I just had some areas that where flooded (from what to be seen in a areal-image) but didn't exist in the current dataset. So I had to create polygons that and join with the existing ones.

Anyway, water or any other theme, the option to join two polygons exists in all GIS-workflows, but for Map3D don't use it as it's result is wrong, that's the message.

 

>> probably autodesk can't get this into their product as someone else beat them to a patent or copyright on how to do it.

If that should be true then they should remove the complete functionality of JOIN as it's results are wrong. As long as the command/function exists I assume to get a correct result, if they can't they have either to document that (best would be a message with every start of the command that island get lost) or to remove the command.

 

For me it's a bug as 2+2 is 4 and not 5, and this bug is not repaired for years now. I don't want to know how many people have used it and have lost islands without recognizing it. ... and they are now working on datasets that are defect (and they even don't know that, but may do some calculation based on that sets, ...horror).

 

- alfred -

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Alfred NESWADBA
Ingenieur Studio HOLLAUS ... www.hollaus.at ... blog.hollaus.at ... CDay 2024
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(not an Autodesk consultant)
Message 9 of 15
Alfred.NESWADBA
in reply to: parkr4st

Hi again,

 

sorry to not have written down that:

Dave, I really appriciate your trys to help, your job and your workarounds here are great and I want to thank you for that.

...just to avoid that you believeI criticize you, no, really not! It's Autodesk that have not done their jobs.

 

- alfred -

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Alfred NESWADBA
Ingenieur Studio HOLLAUS ... www.hollaus.at ... blog.hollaus.at ... CDay 2024
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(not an Autodesk consultant)
Message 10 of 15
parkr4st
in reply to: Alfred.NESWADBA

Alfred

 

No problem.  Along with all the other incomplete items in the product it is frustrating.  Just how we learn to make do

 

Thanks

 

Dave

Message 11 of 15

I'm getting more and more frustrated, the problem is not repaired again in 2015.

 

A simple merge does not work now for (more than) 6 years now.

Or with other words one of the primitive edit-functions is not repaired making it impossible to work with FDO-edit functionality (to work with Map3D for such cases).

 

- alfred -

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Alfred NESWADBA
Ingenieur Studio HOLLAUS ... www.hollaus.at ... blog.hollaus.at ... CDay 2024
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(not an Autodesk consultant)
Message 12 of 15
braudpat
in reply to: Alfred.NESWADBA

 

Hello

 

+1 with Alfred

 

Correct Merging Polygons (and MPolygons) based on attributes is very important in GIS World !

 

So today, you have to use : QGIS, MapInfo, etc ...

 

 

Patrice ( Supporting Troops ) - Autodesk Expert Elite
If you are happy with my answer please mark "Accept as Solution" and if very happy please give me a Kudos (Felicitations) - Thanks

Patrice BRAUD

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Message 13 of 15

No we have Map3D 2017, same bug and even not any reaction from Autodesk (and they got it reported multiple times).

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Alfred NESWADBA
Ingenieur Studio HOLLAUS ... www.hollaus.at ... blog.hollaus.at ... CDay 2024
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(not an Autodesk consultant)
Message 14 of 15

I've been a Map user for a long time, but I honestly believe that Autodesk simply doesn't care about Map anymore. They're more than willing to let it limp along on life-support for as long as they can get away with it, but I don't think there's any desire to either develop the product or even fix some of the longstanding problems it has.

In 2017 they added an ArcGIS Connection provider. I don't know if anyone else has tried it on a polygon feature class yet, but it renders any circular arc segments as straight lines from BC to EC, how does that get past even cursory product testing? Considering what this software purports to be, and what we are trying to do with it, these sorts of issues are pretty sad and render the product virtually useless for many applications. So what else can you conclude other than that Map does not fit into their future vision and they have no desire to spend any money on maintaining or developing it?

Message 15 of 15

Hi,

 

No we have Map3D 2018, same bug.

 

- alfred -

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Alfred NESWADBA
Ingenieur Studio HOLLAUS ... www.hollaus.at ... blog.hollaus.at ... CDay 2024
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(not an Autodesk consultant)

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