Does LT2002 snap incorrectly in 3-D?

[Anonymous]

Several months back, I had our office upgrade from LT'97 to LT2002
for the rest of the office and to the full-blown ACAD 2002 for myself.
However, I am having a lot of problems with the full-blown ACAD 2002.
Endsnaps are going to hidden objects and even to empty space at times.
I don't know the cause, although one person at autodesk has speculated
it may related to the 2-D solids that are given a thickness. At this
point, I may need to downgrade my installation to an older version...
perhaps back down to LT '97.

Before I have the rest of my office downgrade their LT2002, (They
work mostly in 2-D, but need to be able to open and do stuff with my
3-D drawings) I thought I should ask here about LT2002's reliability.

Joe Dunfee

[Anonymous]

Everyone should be having the same problem with the files you describe,
regardless of AutoCAD version. I do not think LT97 or LT2002 will do anymore
or less than what you are already experiencing.

Unless you experience the same OSNAP erratic behavior in the 2D files your
LT users use in LT97, I would hazard a guess there is no problem with R2002,
and you are worrying about nothing really except perhaps "upgrade-itis".

Have a good one 😉

--
Dean Saadallah
http://www.pendean.com
Expanded Links Page
http://www.pendean.com/lt/links.htm
--


"Joe" wrote in message
news:3d52729b.5886304@discussion.autodesk.com...
> Several months back, I had our office upgrade from LT'97 to LT2002
> for the rest of the office and to the full-blown ACAD 2002 for myself.
> However, I am having a lot of problems with the full-blown ACAD 2002.
> Endsnaps are going to hidden objects and even to empty space at times.
> I don't know the cause, although one person at autodesk has speculated
> it may related to the 2-D solids that are given a thickness. At this
> point, I may need to downgrade my installation to an older version...
> perhaps back down to LT '97.
>
> Before I have the rest of my office downgrade their LT2002, (They
> work mostly in 2-D, but need to be able to open and do stuff with my
> 3-D drawings) I thought I should ask here about LT2002's reliability.
>
> Joe Dunfee

[Anonymous]

Nope... LT'97 snaps properly for us. LT'97 demonstrates neither the
"empty space" snaps nor the snapping to hidden objects.

We have also done some more testing, and LT2002 is also
demonstrating the erronious snapping on files I have created in 3-d.
So, for the moment, I am telling the rest of the office that any 3-D
files can't be reliably used.

Joe Dunfee

------
On Thu, 8 Aug 2002 16:21:15 -0700, "Dean Saadallah"
wrote:

>Everyone should be having the same problem with the files you describe,
>regardless of AutoCAD version. I do not think LT97 or LT2002 will do anymore
>or less than what you are already experiencing.

[Anonymous]

If I remember correctly, there is a OSNAP bug in LT 97.

If you have an entity at X = 10.45 and Y = 20.32
and the Unit setup is set to 1 decimal then,
the endpoint snaps to 10.4 , 20.3 NOT to the actual endpoint.
There is no patch for this, only upgrade to next version.

Don't know if this has anything to do with you current problems.

Conny

"Joe" skrev i meddelandet
news:3d53b15d.949124@discussion.autodesk.com...
> Nope... LT'97 snaps properly for us. LT'97 demonstrates neither the
> "empty space" snaps nor the snapping to hidden objects.
>
> We have also done some more testing, and LT2002 is also
> demonstrating the erronious snapping on files I have created in 3-d.
> So, for the moment, I am telling the rest of the office that any 3-D
> files can't be reliably used.
>
> Joe Dunfee
>
> ------
> On Thu, 8 Aug 2002 16:21:15 -0700, "Dean Saadallah"
> wrote:
>
> >Everyone should be having the same problem with the files you describe,
> >regardless of AutoCAD version. I do not think LT97 or LT2002 will do
anymore
> >or less than what you are already experiencing.
>

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the info, I was unaware of this particular bug. However,
it is not related to my current problem. I just reinstalled LT'97 on
my machine, which has the full-blown ACAD 2002. I resaved one of the
problem drawings back to version 14 and opened it in LT'97. It snaps
correctly to the areas that don't snap properly in 2002.

I just spoke with the higher-ups about getting a subscription, to
keep up on all the new releases... but the response was, "Why should
we subscribe to upgrade program that isn't working on the current
version?"

I guess it is kind of like taking a broken car to a mechanic, who
says, "I can't fix the problem right now, but if you give me $1,000, I
might fix it in 6 months at no additional cost."

On Fri, 9 Aug 2002 05:49:12 -0700, "Conny Klasson"
wrote:

>If I remember correctly, there is a OSNAP bug in LT 97.
>
>If you have an entity at X = 10.45 and Y = 20.32
>and the Unit setup is set to 1 decimal then,
>the endpoint snaps to 10.4 , 20.3 NOT to the actual endpoint.
>There is no patch for this, only upgrade to next version.
>
>Don't know if this has anything to do with you current problems.
>
>Conny

[Anonymous]

Without a sample post of this phenomenon, right now the problem seems
exclusive to you and your files. Your issue does not seem to have been
reported yet, a year after the program has been out.

Over the Internet diagnosis like this is not the way to fix it. Post a file
sample for others to try, and since this is a full AutoCAD issue as well,
post the full description and notice of the uploaded file there too. All
files need to be uploaded to the Customer Files area only at
http://discussion.autodesk.com

Subscriptions are not for maintenance upgrades, they are for feature
additions and next version upgrades only, and they are not available for LT.
Patches and fixes are free to everyone at the downloads link at
http://support.autodesk.com

--
Dean Saadallah
http://www.pendean.com
Expanded Links Page
http://www.pendean.com/lt/links.htm
--


"Joe" wrote in message
news:3d53d391.9705245@discussion.autodesk.com...
> Thanks for the info, I was unaware of this particular bug. However,
> it is not related to my current problem. I just reinstalled LT'97 on
> my machine, which has the full-blown ACAD 2002. I resaved one of the
> problem drawings back to version 14 and opened it in LT'97. It snaps
> correctly to the areas that don't snap properly in 2002.
>
> I just spoke with the higher-ups about getting a subscription, to
> keep up on all the new releases... but the response was, "Why should
> we subscribe to upgrade program that isn't working on the current
> version?"
>
> I guess it is kind of like taking a broken car to a mechanic, who
> says, "I can't fix the problem right now, but if you give me $1,000, I
> might fix it in 6 months at no additional cost."
>
> On Fri, 9 Aug 2002 05:49:12 -0700, "Conny Klasson"
> wrote:
>
> >If I remember correctly, there is a OSNAP bug in LT 97.
> >
> >If you have an entity at X = 10.45 and Y = 20.32
> >and the Unit setup is set to 1 decimal then,
> >the endpoint snaps to 10.4 , 20.3 NOT to the actual endpoint.
> >There is no patch for this, only upgrade to next version.
> >
> >Don't know if this has anything to do with you current problems.
> >
> >Conny
>

[Anonymous]

Actually, the problem file was uploaded a while back and discussed
in the AutoCAD 2002 forum.
Starting from a blank drawing, I have been able to consistantly
reproduce the "snapping to hidden lines" problem. Since it happens on
both LT and the full blown version, and on different computers and
operating systems, I am assuming it is not unique to me.


Joe Dunfee

On Fri, 9 Aug 2002 09:48:50 -0700, "Dean Saadallah"
wrote:

>Without a sample post of this phenomenon, right now the problem seems
>exclusive to you and your files. Your issue does not seem to have been
>reported yet, a year after the program has been out.

[Anonymous]

OE problem (Operator Error).

OK, your drawing problem seems to be exclusively related to the SOLIDs you
created on layer "new-stepsdim3" on the bottom right 3D image at the brown
colored dimensions. Erasing the SOLIDs makes the mystery Osnaps go away.

Not sure why you use SOLID command to create the 3D 4-sided square tubes,
but SOLIDs typically allow Osnaps to endpoints and intersections and
midpoints, and while hovering over the viewport you were actually snapping
to available Osnap points hidden by the top visible layer of the tube. In
other words, you created the condition in which you added additional OSNAPs,
but because of HIDE being on, you did not see them. Turning off HIDE in the
viewport would have revealed these 'mystery' Osnap points to you.

So, first, why not use one of Full AutoCAD's 3D entity command to create the
tube, instead of doing it the hard way with SOLID? LT2002 can easily see and
handle these items, no need to explode etc.
HELP in AutoCAD is an excellent place to start to learn how to create and
use 3D objects.

Full AutoCAD, unlike LT97 and LT in general, is really adept at creating 3D
objects and stuff: basic but very handy. Since you are in Full AutoCAD,
slowly but surely start sliding away from LT's limited 3D abilities and
explore.

And while dimensioning in a viewport, be careful and watch what you re
dimensioning: as your image posts repeatedly show, when AutoCAD says it is
snapping to an ENDPOINT, and you do not see on, turn HIDE off and watch what
you are really snapping to.

Have a good weekend, and enjoy full AutoCAD to it's fullest ability next
week.


NEXT!

--
Dean Saadallah
http://www.pendean.com
Expanded Links Page
http://www.pendean.com/lt/links.htm
--

"Joe" wrote in message
news:3d53fb5c.19892493@discussion.autodesk.com...
> Actually, the problem file was uploaded a while back and discussed
> in the AutoCAD 2002 forum.
> Starting from a blank drawing, I have been able to consistantly
> reproduce the "snapping to hidden lines" problem. Since it happens on
> both LT and the full blown version, and on different computers and
> operating systems, I am assuming it is not unique to me.
>
>
> Joe Dunfee
>
> On Fri, 9 Aug 2002 09:48:50 -0700, "Dean Saadallah"
> wrote:
>
> >Without a sample post of this phenomenon, right now the problem seems
> >exclusive to you and your files. Your issue does not seem to have been
> >reported yet, a year after the program has been out.
>

[Anonymous]

Turns out I am not the first to point all of this out to you, were you
hoping for an answer that was les painful? We all do sometimes.

Your problems, if I may be so blunt, are self created. I appreciate you
having legacy drawings with the same issue, but we all make these kinds of
judgment calls at one point to solve a problem that come back to bite us in
later versions of many software, AutoCAD included. You are not the first one
to pick an option very few have and get hurt, and not the last.

The same issue exists in 2000/2000i/2002 with your drawing, so you are kind
of stuck: stay where you are with LT97/R14, or start making the change now,
and when in legacy drawings, carefully dimension and be aware of what you
are snapping to. No one has the time to recreate old stuff, but if you
re-cycle often like most of us, it might well be worth it in the long term.
Autodesk is not typically known for rewriting code to suit individual needs.
Changing software would be a lot more painful.

Good luck friend: you are at a very tough crossroads and only you can move
on to the right path. Have a restful weekend, and come back on Monday with a
fresh look at how to solve the problem in-house and help your users get over
this issue with more practical solutions, ad help them avoid the problem in
the future with new drawings.


--
Dean Saadallah
http://www.pendean.com
Expanded Links Page
http://www.pendean.com/lt/links.htm
--

"Dean Saadallah" wrote in message
news:2B96F82475794E43EA74B5E88691191B@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> OE problem (Operator Error).
>
> OK, your drawing problem seems to be exclusively related to the SOLIDs you
> created on layer "new-stepsdim3" on the bottom right 3D image at the brown
> colored dimensions. Erasing the SOLIDs makes the mystery Osnaps go away.
>
> Not sure why you use SOLID command to create the 3D 4-sided square tubes,
> but SOLIDs typically allow Osnaps to endpoints and intersections and
> midpoints, and while hovering over the viewport you were actually snapping
> to available Osnap points hidden by the top visible layer of the tube. In
> other words, you created the condition in which you added additional
OSNAPs,
> but because of HIDE being on, you did not see them. Turning off HIDE in
the
> viewport would have revealed these 'mystery' Osnap points to you.
>
> So, first, why not use one of Full AutoCAD's 3D entity command to create
the
> tube, instead of doing it the hard way with SOLID? LT2002 can easily see
and
> handle these items, no need to explode etc.
> HELP in AutoCAD is an excellent place to start to learn how to create and
> use 3D objects.
>
> Full AutoCAD, unlike LT97 and LT in general, is really adept at creating
3D
> objects and stuff: basic but very handy. Since you are in Full AutoCAD,
> slowly but surely start sliding away from LT's limited 3D abilities and
> explore.
>
> And while dimensioning in a viewport, be careful and watch what you re
> dimensioning: as your image posts repeatedly show, when AutoCAD says it is
> snapping to an ENDPOINT, and you do not see on, turn HIDE off and watch
what
> you are really snapping to.
>
> Have a good weekend, and enjoy full AutoCAD to it's fullest ability next
> week.
>
>
> NEXT!
>
> --
> Dean Saadallah
> http://www.pendean.com
> Expanded Links Page
> http://www.pendean.com/lt/links.htm
> --
>
> "Joe" wrote in message
> news:3d53fb5c.19892493@discussion.autodesk.com...
> > Actually, the problem file was uploaded a while back and discussed
> > in the AutoCAD 2002 forum.
> > Starting from a blank drawing, I have been able to consistantly
> > reproduce the "snapping to hidden lines" problem. Since it happens on
> > both LT and the full blown version, and on different computers and
> > operating systems, I am assuming it is not unique to me.
> >
> >
> > Joe Dunfee
> >
> > On Fri, 9 Aug 2002 09:48:50 -0700, "Dean Saadallah"
> > wrote:
> >
> > >Without a sample post of this phenomenon, right now the problem seems
> > >exclusive to you and your files. Your issue does not seem to have been
> > >reported yet, a year after the program has been out.
> >
>
>

[Anonymous]

On Fri, 9 Aug 2002 19:40:35 -0700, "Dean Saadallah"
wrote:

>Turns out I am not the first to point all of this out to you, were you
>hoping for an answer that was les painful? We all do sometimes.


It seems that I've allowed the discussion to take place in different
newsgroups, so sometimes I am repeating thing. But, for the benefit
of those following the discussion here;

Briefly, before I abandon use of all my old drawings, I really want
to confirm that the 2-d solids are the problem entitiy. I was hoping
that Autodesk would speak at some point to say that these kinds of
entites are no longer supported, or perhaps something else, such as
problem with the video driver, etc.

Joe Dunfee

[Anonymous]

Shaan Hurley (with Autodesk) at the full AutoCAD discussion area gave you an
honest answer.

--
Dean Saadallah
http://www.pendean.com
Expanded Links Page
http://www.pendean.com/lt/links.htm
--

"Joe" wrote in message
news:3d580eee.27751704@discussion.autodesk.com...
> On Fri, 9 Aug 2002 19:40:35 -0700, "Dean Saadallah"
> wrote:
>
> >Turns out I am not the first to point all of this out to you, were you
> >hoping for an answer that was les painful? We all do sometimes.
>
>
> It seems that I've allowed the discussion to take place in different
> newsgroups, so sometimes I am repeating thing. But, for the benefit
> of those following the discussion here;
>
> Briefly, before I abandon use of all my old drawings, I really want
> to confirm that the 2-d solids are the problem entitiy. I was hoping
> that Autodesk would speak at some point to say that these kinds of
> entites are no longer supported, or perhaps something else, such as
> problem with the video driver, etc.
>
> Joe Dunfee