Sheet Manager - Multiple profiles on same sheet

[Anonymous]

Is there a problem with having multiple profile views on the same sheet. When I "update all frame labels" only the currently set profile lables are updated correctly. The other profiles go out of wack (Stationing Label, Elevation Label, Etc.). When I try to "Update Frame Labels" individually, under Sheet Styles, it does not work either. I want to be able to put more than one Plan/Profile in the same sheet (when the streets are short for instance). Is it because all I do is "Sheet Styles - Load sheet style" and then align the plan and/or profile manually, without actually "laying out a sheet series". I get everything I need by avoiding this step, the only problem is when I have more than one on the same sheet. I don't think that this is asking too much. Thanks for any thoughts Alan Belleau ABC Drafting, Inc.

[Anonymous]

Hi Don, At the moment it is entirely metric and Australian terminology based. Metric: This ultimately doesn't matter You put imperial data into the system and it gets processed with exactly the same formulae. The only noticeable item would be the default section sampling widths of 10 drawing units each side which would be a bit too narrow if it was feet, and the default Template which is about 8 drawing units wide overall. The default section sampling spacing in 10 units also. This can be adjusted and will in due course. Terminology: The menu commands are easily changed. The road menu uses "Kerb" twice, and uses "Long Section" twice rather than Profile, the Drainage menu uses "Long Section" once as does the Sewer menu. Inside the program and reports, we would use Chainage quite a bit, but it's not that hard to change. Plotting headers are user configurable. Help files would need a large search and replace, and the AVI files would have to be redone where Chainage has been used. How critical would the use of "Chainage" be in the USA ? -- Laurie Comerford CADApps www.cadapps.com.au "Don Reichle" wrote in message news:4162a142_3@newsprd01... > Laurie; > > OK, I'll nibble at the bait. > > Is it Imperial-friendly? You seem like someone who Considers The Options > from the get-go, so I'm asking if it is only built for Metric? > > Would us Yanks get tripped up by your regional terms like kerb and chainage? > > -- > Don Reichle > Hacker Engineering, Inc. > "King of Work-Arounds" > > > "Laurie Comerford" wrote in message > news:416284f3_2@newsprd01... > > Hi Don, > > > > It's not even vaguely tenacious. Compare it with hand drafting the > > sections. > > > > 20 years ago I worked for a firm who basically charged $1,500/drawing. > > With > > Sheet Manager I can churn them out as a finished - checked product title > > block etc.in 15 minutes for cross sections and 30 minutes for profiles. > > Overall, I'm allowing for the odd design change as well. The actual > > generation time is about 10 seconds/sheet, but there is always cleanup > > drafting and drawing assembly. Allow a little time for the design and you > > can see a profitable business potential. > > > > If it wasn't for Advanced Road Design we would still be building Style > > Sheets for clients. With ARD, we are realistically looking at designing > > and > > plotting things like the roads and drainage for a 200 lot subdivision > > (including intersections, cul-de-sacs etc.) in a day, and Land Desktop and > > Civil Design, even with a fully setup Sheet Manager is still a long way > > away > > from that level of functionality. > > > > -- > > > > > > Laurie Comerford > > CADApps > > www.cadapps.com.au > > > > > > "Don Reichle" wrote in message > > news:41624dbb_3@newsprd01... > >> Laurie; > >> > >> I've been called tenacious as a bulldog before (in a positive way, no > > less), > >> but I think that recitation takes the crown and places it on a > >> well-deserving brow. Knowing first-hand what you've gone through to whip > >> that portion of the app into something useable, I have only one thing > >> left > >> to say... > >> > >> "I bow before my betters!" Well-done, old chap! > >> > >> But did the experience leave any interesting scars you'd care to share, > > like > >> Mick Dundee? > >> > >> I think SM bears a fair resemblance to a salt-water croc. > >> > >> -- > >> Don Reichle > >> Hacker Engineering, Inc. > >> "King of Work-Arounds" > >> > >> > >> "Laurie Comerford" wrote in > >> message news:41623d80$1_3@newsprd01... > >> > Hi Don, > >> > > >> > My personal experience in this area was that it took me about 4 hours > >> > of > >> > experiment (on a very slow computer in Softdesk 7.5) to understand how > > to > >> > use Style Sheets and what the limitations of the process were. > >> > > >> > It took me about a day to learn to modify a profile sheet and > >> > understand > >> > the > >> > nuances of doing so. It took another 12 months to develop a full kit > > for > >> > dealing with other aspects of defining style sheets and recognising the > >> > how > >> > to deal with the bugs in the style sheet definition process and devise > >> > a > >> > systematic process for getting it right first try. > >> > > >> > I also had to learn how to create finished drawings where you need to > >> > assemble several components on one drawing. I'm not a draftsman and > > other > >> > users would be much better than me here. > >> > > >> > It took about 6 weeks elapsed time and perhaps 30 hours to totally > >> > learn > >> > the > >> > limitations of the cross section process and to write a lisp program to > >> > fill > >> > in the gaps as they apply to drafting practices in Australia. Of this > >> > time > >> > period, I would suspect about 10% would apply in the USA as the > >> > software > >> > is > >> > written to reflect USA drafting practices. > >> > > >> > With a modern computer that learning curve would be reduced to less > >> > than > >> > half. Each time I generated a sheet it took about 10 minutes, compared > >> > with > >> > about 10 seconds now. This certainly destroyed concentration and > > allowed > >> > me to forget what I did last. > >> > > >> > My understanding of programming has improved and I've re-written the > >> > cross-section process in VBA which took a day or so compared with > > several > >> > days for the lisp. > >> > > >> > It took a couple of years before I found out about "cd_nolayercreate", > >> > a > >> > critical part of defining your own style sheets. > >> > > >> > During this time period I also wrote about 100 pages of documentation > >> > on > >> > the > >> > various aspects of Sheet Manager. We include this on the Australian > >> > Supplementary CD as well as set of local sheets. > >> > > >> > -- > >> > > >> > Regards > >> > > >> > > >> > Laurie Comerford > >> > www.cadapps.com.au > >> > > >> > "Don Reichle" wrote in message > >> > news:41622507_1@newsprd01... > >> >> Jon, > >> >> > >> >> I also am interested in saving myself time, so tkaing the long > >> >> learning > >> >> curve I've experienced in just the setup phase of Sheet Manager, and > > the > >> >> minefield analogy I alluded to into account I've discarded SM in my > >> >> search > >> >> for Useful Tools to do Useful Work. > >> >> > >> >> If you have invested the necessary time into it to make it work for > > you, > >> > you > >> >> have my respect. > >> >> > >> >> May I ask how long it took you to learn its subtle nuances? I'm not > >> >> trying > >> >> to "bait" you here. I am open-minded enough to reconsider something > > once > >> >> shown the error of my ways. > >> >> > >> >> -- > >> >> Don Reichle > >> >> Hacker Engineering, Inc. > >> >> "King of Work-Arounds" > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> "Jon Luby" wrote in message > >> >> news:1308557.1096812779779.JavaMail.jive@jiveforum2.autodesk.com... > >> >> > Don, > >> >> > > >> >> > The idea here was to show how to automate a process. For folks with > >> >> > multiple sheet needs, this process will save time. If your way > > works, > >> > I'm > >> >> > definitely a proponent of using it. > >> >> > > >> >> > As for me, when I have large project work, I prefer to find a > > solution > >> >> > that will ultimately save me time; clearly, you don't need that > >> > solution. > >> >> > > >> >> > Jon > >> >> > >> >> > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > > > > > >

[Anonymous]

Don,

I would say that it probably took me a full day to grasp what Sheet Manager could do. That was back in the 7.5 days (I think Laurie and I shared a lot of the same ground there). I quickly realized (having had done quite a bit of Design Engineer work for roadways and such) that this tool could save a lot of time if properly utilized.

I explored the possibilities and created a remedial sheet quite quickly. I'd say it took me about 20 hours of messing with the stuff to fully develop a complex sheet style. Of course, I've tweaked things here and there over the years, but the ideas were pretty sound.

Cross Section sheets opened up my eyes to some even more elaborate possibilities. I'm not sure I've given this area as much mindshare as Plan/Profile, Plan only, and Profile only sheets (not to mention the quirky items such as Plan/Plan and Profile/Profile sheets). But I could definitely say that setting up the style saved me quite a bit of manual effort in a very short period of time.

So, I guess each person has to weigh the pros and cons with the benefits / time ratios. For me, its a valuable tool. Could it be better? I don't know of a piece of software that can't.

Jon

[Anonymous]

Laurie; Well, since I seem to remember you provide a definition once upon a time, is chainage the regional term for stationing? I just tried dictionary.com and google to get answers with no success. Kerb is at least phonetic so that's not a problem. Thanks for the heads-up on Long Section. I imagine that it's placement in the Menus would make it apparent what it was. Do you provide a demo version that times-out after a short period so I could at least get my feet wet? -- Don Reichle Hacker Engineering, Inc. "King of Work-Arounds" "Laurie Comerford" wrote in message news:4162fec8_2@newsprd01... > Hi Don, > > At the moment it is entirely metric and Australian terminology based. > > Metric: > This ultimately doesn't matter You put imperial data into the system and > it > gets processed with exactly the same formulae. The only noticeable item > would be the default section sampling widths of 10 drawing units each side > which would be a bit too narrow if it was feet, and the default Template > which is about 8 drawing units wide overall. The default section > sampling > spacing in 10 units also. This can be adjusted and will in due course. > > Terminology: > The menu commands are easily changed. The road menu uses "Kerb" twice, > and > uses "Long Section" twice rather than Profile, the Drainage menu uses > "Long > Section" once as does the Sewer menu. > > Inside the program and reports, we would use Chainage quite a bit, but > it's > not that hard to change. > > Plotting headers are user configurable. > > Help files would need a large search and replace, and the AVI files would > have to be redone where Chainage has been used. How critical would the > use > of "Chainage" be in the USA ? > > > -- > > > Laurie Comerford > CADApps > www.cadapps.com.au > > > "Don Reichle" wrote in message > news:4162a142_3@newsprd01... >> Laurie; >> >> OK, I'll nibble at the bait. >> >> Is it Imperial-friendly? You seem like someone who Considers The Options >> from the get-go, so I'm asking if it is only built for Metric? >> >> Would us Yanks get tripped up by your regional terms like kerb and > chainage? >> >> -- >> Don Reichle >> Hacker Engineering, Inc. >> "King of Work-Arounds" >> >> >> "Laurie Comerford" wrote in message >> news:416284f3_2@newsprd01... >> > Hi Don, >> > >> > It's not even vaguely tenacious. Compare it with hand drafting the >> > sections. >> > >> > 20 years ago I worked for a firm who basically charged $1,500/drawing. >> > With >> > Sheet Manager I can churn them out as a finished - checked product >> > title >> > block etc.in 15 minutes for cross sections and 30 minutes for profiles. >> > Overall, I'm allowing for the odd design change as well. The actual >> > generation time is about 10 seconds/sheet, but there is always cleanup >> > drafting and drawing assembly. Allow a little time for the design and > you >> > can see a profitable business potential. >> > >> > If it wasn't for Advanced Road Design we would still be building Style >> > Sheets for clients. With ARD, we are realistically looking at >> > designing >> > and >> > plotting things like the roads and drainage for a 200 lot subdivision >> > (including intersections, cul-de-sacs etc.) in a day, and Land Desktop > and >> > Civil Design, even with a fully setup Sheet Manager is still a long way >> > away >> > from that level of functionality. >> > >> > -- >> > >> > >> > Laurie Comerford >> > CADApps >> > www.cadapps.com.au >> > >> > >> > "Don Reichle" wrote in message >> > news:41624dbb_3@newsprd01... >> >> Laurie; >> >> >> >> I've been called tenacious as a bulldog before (in a positive way, no >> > less), >> >> but I think that recitation takes the crown and places it on a >> >> well-deserving brow. Knowing first-hand what you've gone through to > whip >> >> that portion of the app into something useable, I have only one thing >> >> left >> >> to say... >> >> >> >> "I bow before my betters!" Well-done, old chap! >> >> >> >> But did the experience leave any interesting scars you'd care to >> >> share, >> > like >> >> Mick Dundee? >> >> >> >> I think SM bears a fair resemblance to a salt-water croc. >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Don Reichle >> >> Hacker Engineering, Inc. >> >> "King of Work-Arounds" >> >> >> >> >> >> "Laurie Comerford" wrote >> >> in >> >> message news:41623d80$1_3@newsprd01... >> >> > Hi Don, >> >> > >> >> > My personal experience in this area was that it took me about 4 >> >> > hours >> >> > of >> >> > experiment (on a very slow computer in Softdesk 7.5) to understand > how >> > to >> >> > use Style Sheets and what the limitations of the process were. >> >> > >> >> > It took me about a day to learn to modify a profile sheet and >> >> > understand >> >> > the >> >> > nuances of doing so. It took another 12 months to develop a full >> >> > kit >> > for >> >> > dealing with other aspects of defining style sheets and recognising > the >> >> > how >> >> > to deal with the bugs in the style sheet definition process and > devise >> >> > a >> >> > systematic process for getting it right first try. >> >> > >> >> > I also had to learn how to create finished drawings where you need >> >> > to >> >> > assemble several components on one drawing. I'm not a draftsman and >> > other >> >> > users would be much better than me here. >> >> > >> >> > It took about 6 weeks elapsed time and perhaps 30 hours to totally >> >> > learn >> >> > the >> >> > limitations of the cross section process and to write a lisp program > to >> >> > fill >> >> > in the gaps as they apply to drafting practices in Australia. Of > this >> >> > time >> >> > period, I would suspect about 10% would apply in the USA as the >> >> > software >> >> > is >> >> > written to reflect USA drafting practices. >> >> > >> >> > With a modern computer that learning curve would be reduced to less >> >> > than >> >> > half. Each time I generated a sheet it took about 10 minutes, > compared >> >> > with >> >> > about 10 seconds now. This certainly destroyed concentration and >> > allowed >> >> > me to forget what I did last. >> >> > >> >> > My understanding of programming has improved and I've re-written the >> >> > cross-section process in VBA which took a day or so compared with >> > several >> >> > days for the lisp. >> >> > >> >> > It took a couple of years before I found out about > "cd_nolayercreate", >> >> > a >> >> > critical part of defining your own style sheets. >> >> > >> >> > During this time period I also wrote about 100 pages of >> >> > documentation >> >> > on >> >> > the >> >> > various aspects of Sheet Manager. We include this on the Australian >> >> > Supplementary CD as well as set of local sheets. >> >> > >> >> > -- >> >> > >> >> > Regards >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > Laurie Comerford >> >> > www.cadapps.com.au >> >> > >> >> > "Don Reichle" wrote in message >> >> > news:41622507_1@newsprd01... >> >> >> Jon, >> >> >> >> >> >> I also am interested in saving myself time, so tkaing the long >> >> >> learning >> >> >> curve I've experienced in just the setup phase of Sheet Manager, >> >> >> and >> > the >> >> >> minefield analogy I alluded to into account I've discarded SM in my >> >> >> search >> >> >> for Useful Tools to do Useful Work. >> >> >> >> >> >> If you have invested the necessary time into it to make it work for >> > you, >> >> > you >> >> >> have my respect. >> >> >> >> >> >> May I ask how long it took you to learn its subtle nuances? I'm not >> >> >> trying >> >> >> to "bait" you here. I am open-minded enough to reconsider something >> > once >> >> >> shown the error of my ways. >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> >> Don Reichle >> >> >> Hacker Engineering, Inc. >> >> >> "King of Work-Arounds" >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> "Jon Luby" wrote in message >> >> >> news:1308557.1096812779779.JavaMail.jive@jiveforum2.autodesk.com... >> >> >> > Don, >> >> >> > >> >> >> > The idea here was to show how to automate a process. For folks > with >> >> >> > multiple sheet needs, this process will save time. If your way >> > works, >> >> > I'm >> >> >> > definitely a proponent of using it. >> >> >> > >> >> >> > As for me, when I have large project work, I prefer to find a >> > solution >> >> >> > that will ultimately save me time; clearly, you don't need that >> >> > solution. >> >> >> > >> >> >> > Jon >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> > >> > >> >> > >

[Anonymous]

Laurie; I was able to get a copy of your ARD brochure, but each time I click the AVI link another window appears and disappears. And yes I am holding down the Control key to avoid my Pop-up Blocker when I click the link. Do I need to download an Add-In to IE to be able to view the AVI? "Levels" equals elevations, correct? -- Don Reichle Hacker Engineering, Inc. "King of Work-Arounds" "Don Reichle" wrote in message news:41653a11_2@newsprd01... > Laurie; > > Well, since I seem to remember you provide a definition once upon a time, > is chainage the regional term for stationing? > > I just tried dictionary.com and google to get answers with no success. > > Kerb is at least phonetic so that's not a problem. > > Thanks for the heads-up on Long Section. I imagine that it's placement in > the Menus would make it apparent what it was. > > Do you provide a demo version that times-out after a short period so I > could at least get my feet wet? > > -- > Don Reichle > Hacker Engineering, Inc. > "King of Work-Arounds" > > > "Laurie Comerford" wrote in message > news:4162fec8_2@newsprd01... >> Hi Don, >> >> At the moment it is entirely metric and Australian terminology based. >> >> Metric: >> This ultimately doesn't matter You put imperial data into the system and >> it >> gets processed with exactly the same formulae. The only noticeable item >> would be the default section sampling widths of 10 drawing units each >> side >> which would be a bit too narrow if it was feet, and the default Template >> which is about 8 drawing units wide overall. The default section >> sampling >> spacing in 10 units also. This can be adjusted and will in due course. >> >> Terminology: >> The menu commands are easily changed. The road menu uses "Kerb" twice, >> and >> uses "Long Section" twice rather than Profile, the Drainage menu uses >> "Long >> Section" once as does the Sewer menu. >> >> Inside the program and reports, we would use Chainage quite a bit, but >> it's >> not that hard to change. >> >> Plotting headers are user configurable. >> >> Help files would need a large search and replace, and the AVI files would >> have to be redone where Chainage has been used. How critical would the >> use >> of "Chainage" be in the USA ? >> >> >> -- >> >> >> Laurie Comerford >> CADApps >> www.cadapps.com.au >> >> >> "Don Reichle" wrote in message >> news:4162a142_3@newsprd01... >>> Laurie; >>> >>> OK, I'll nibble at the bait. >>> >>> Is it Imperial-friendly? You seem like someone who Considers The Options >>> from the get-go, so I'm asking if it is only built for Metric? >>> >>> Would us Yanks get tripped up by your regional terms like kerb and >> chainage? >>> >>> -- >>> Don Reichle >>> Hacker Engineering, Inc. >>> "King of Work-Arounds" >>> >>> >>> "Laurie Comerford" wrote in message >>> news:416284f3_2@newsprd01... >>> > Hi Don, >>> > >>> > It's not even vaguely tenacious. Compare it with hand drafting the >>> > sections. >>> > >>> > 20 years ago I worked for a firm who basically charged $1,500/drawing. >>> > With >>> > Sheet Manager I can churn them out as a finished - checked product >>> > title >>> > block etc.in 15 minutes for cross sections and 30 minutes for >>> > profiles. >>> > Overall, I'm allowing for the odd design change as well. The actual >>> > generation time is about 10 seconds/sheet, but there is always cleanup >>> > drafting and drawing assembly. Allow a little time for the design and >> you >>> > can see a profitable business potential. >>> > >>> > If it wasn't for Advanced Road Design we would still be building Style >>> > Sheets for clients. With ARD, we are realistically looking at >>> > designing >>> > and >>> > plotting things like the roads and drainage for a 200 lot subdivision >>> > (including intersections, cul-de-sacs etc.) in a day, and Land Desktop >> and >>> > Civil Design, even with a fully setup Sheet Manager is still a long >>> > way >>> > away >>> > from that level of functionality. >>> > >>> > -- >>> > >>> > >>> > Laurie Comerford >>> > CADApps >>> > www.cadapps.com.au >>> > >>> > >>> > "Don Reichle" wrote in message >>> > news:41624dbb_3@newsprd01... >>> >> Laurie; >>> >> >>> >> I've been called tenacious as a bulldog before (in a positive way, no >>> > less), >>> >> but I think that recitation takes the crown and places it on a >>> >> well-deserving brow. Knowing first-hand what you've gone through to >> whip >>> >> that portion of the app into something useable, I have only one thing >>> >> left >>> >> to say... >>> >> >>> >> "I bow before my betters!" Well-done, old chap! >>> >> >>> >> But did the experience leave any interesting scars you'd care to >>> >> share, >>> > like >>> >> Mick Dundee? >>> >> >>> >> I think SM bears a fair resemblance to a salt-water croc. >>> >> >>> >> -- >>> >> Don Reichle >>> >> Hacker Engineering, Inc. >>> >> "King of Work-Arounds" >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> "Laurie Comerford" wrote >>> >> in >>> >> message news:41623d80$1_3@newsprd01... >>> >> > Hi Don, >>> >> > >>> >> > My personal experience in this area was that it took me about 4 >>> >> > hours >>> >> > of >>> >> > experiment (on a very slow computer in Softdesk 7.5) to understand >> how >>> > to >>> >> > use Style Sheets and what the limitations of the process were. >>> >> > >>> >> > It took me about a day to learn to modify a profile sheet and >>> >> > understand >>> >> > the >>> >> > nuances of doing so. It took another 12 months to develop a full >>> >> > kit >>> > for >>> >> > dealing with other aspects of defining style sheets and recognising >> the >>> >> > how >>> >> > to deal with the bugs in the style sheet definition process and >> devise >>> >> > a >>> >> > systematic process for getting it right first try. >>> >> > >>> >> > I also had to learn how to create finished drawings where you need >>> >> > to >>> >> > assemble several components on one drawing. I'm not a draftsman >>> >> > and >>> > other >>> >> > users would be much better than me here. >>> >> > >>> >> > It took about 6 weeks elapsed time and perhaps 30 hours to totally >>> >> > learn >>> >> > the >>> >> > limitations of the cross section process and to write a lisp >>> >> > program >> to >>> >> > fill >>> >> > in the gaps as they apply to drafting practices in Australia. Of >> this >>> >> > time >>> >> > period, I would suspect about 10% would apply in the USA as the >>> >> > software >>> >> > is >>> >> > written to reflect USA drafting practices. >>> >> > >>> >> > With a modern computer that learning curve would be reduced to less >>> >> > than >>> >> > half. Each time I generated a sheet it took about 10 minutes, >> compared >>> >> > with >>> >> > about 10 seconds now. This certainly destroyed concentration and >>> > allowed >>> >> > me to forget what I did last. >>> >> > >>> >> > My understanding of programming has improved and I've re-written >>> >> > the >>> >> > cross-section process in VBA which took a day or so compared with >>> > several >>> >> > days for the lisp. >>> >> > >>> >> > It took a couple of years before I found out about >> "cd_nolayercreate", >>> >> > a >>> >> > critical part of defining your own style sheets. >>> >> > >>> >> > During this time period I also wrote about 100 pages of >>> >> > documentation >>> >> > on >>> >> > the >>> >> > various aspects of Sheet Manager. We include this on the >>> >> > Australian >>> >> > Supplementary CD as well as set of local sheets. >>> >> > >>> >> > -- >>> >> > >>> >> > Regards >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > Laurie Comerford >>> >> > www.cadapps.com.au >>> >> > >>> >> > "Don Reichle" wrote in message >>> >> > news:41622507_1@newsprd01... >>> >> >> Jon, >>> >> >> >>> >> >> I also am interested in saving myself time, so tkaing the long >>> >> >> learning >>> >> >> curve I've experienced in just the setup phase of Sheet Manager, >>> >> >> and >>> > the >>> >> >> minefield analogy I alluded to into account I've discarded SM in >>> >> >> my >>> >> >> search >>> >> >> for Useful Tools to do Useful Work. >>> >> >> >>> >> >> If you have invested the necessary time into it to make it work >>> >> >> for >>> > you, >>> >> > you >>> >> >> have my respect. >>> >> >> >>> >> >> May I ask how long it took you to learn its subtle nuances? I'm >>> >> >> not >>> >> >> trying >>> >> >> to "bait" you here. I am open-minded enough to reconsider >>> >> >> something >>> > once >>> >> >> shown the error of my ways. >>> >> >> >>> >> >> -- >>> >> >> Don Reichle >>> >> >> Hacker Engineering, Inc. >>> >> >> "King of Work-Arounds" >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> "Jon Luby" wrote in message >>> >> >> news:1308557.1096812779779.JavaMail.jive@jiveforum2.autodesk.com... >>> >> >> > Don, >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> > The idea here was to show how to automate a process. For folks >> with >>> >> >> > multiple sheet needs, this process will save time. If your way >>> > works, >>> >> > I'm >>> >> >> > definitely a proponent of using it. >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> > As for me, when I have large project work, I prefer to find a >>> > solution >>> >> >> > that will ultimately save me time; clearly, you don't need that >>> >> > solution. >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> > Jon >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> >>> >> >>> > >>> > >>> >>> >> >> > >

[Anonymous]

Jon; Yes I saw it's usefulness right away also. But I spent considerable time putting an initial style together, and then when I wanted to revise it, all I remember at this point is that the process was fraught with inconsistencies and intense frustration. That was in 2i, I now have access to 2004 so maybe it's time to perform further investigation. I freely admit that I approach this with much fear and trepidation, though. As I mentioned earlier I'm facing this alone, without a qualified Dance Instructor to show me the ropes. ------- Don Reichle Hacker Engineering, Inc. "King of Work-Arounds" "Jon Luby" wrote in message news:14369019.1097009790659.JavaMail.jive@jiveforum1.autodesk.com... > Don, > > I would say that it probably took me a full day to grasp what Sheet Manager could do. That was back in the 7.5 days (I think Laurie and I shared a lot of the same ground there). I quickly realized (having had done quite a bit of Design Engineer work for roadways and such) that this tool could save a lot of time if properly utilized. > > I explored the possibilities and created a remedial sheet quite quickly. I'd say it took me about 20 hours of messing with the stuff to fully develop a complex sheet style. Of course, I've tweaked things here and there over the years, but the ideas were pretty sound. > > Cross Section sheets opened up my eyes to some even more elaborate possibilities. I'm not sure I've given this area as much mindshare as Plan/Profile, Plan only, and Profile only sheets (not to mention the quirky items such as Plan/Plan and Profile/Profile sheets). But I could definitely say that setting up the style saved me quite a bit of manual effort in a very short period of time. > > So, I guess each person has to weigh the pros and cons with the benefits / time ratios. For me, its a valuable tool. Could it be better? I don't know of a piece of software that can't. > > Jon

[Anonymous]

Hi Don, All our latest AVIs are made with Camtasia which has it own plugin and which is installed with the program. When I get to the office, I'll check it out. -- Laurie Comerford CADApps www.cadapps.com.au "Don Reichle" wrote in message news:41653c57_3@newsprd01... > Laurie; > > I was able to get a copy of your ARD brochure, but each time I click the AVI > link another window appears and disappears. And yes I am holding down the > Control key to avoid my Pop-up Blocker when I click the link. Do I need to > download an Add-In to IE to be able to view the AVI? > > "Levels" equals elevations, correct? > > -- > Don Reichle > Hacker Engineering, Inc. > "King of Work-Arounds" > > > "Don Reichle" wrote in message > news:41653a11_2@newsprd01... > > Laurie; > > > > Well, since I seem to remember you provide a definition once upon a time, > > is chainage the regional term for stationing? > > > > I just tried dictionary.com and google to get answers with no success. > > > > Kerb is at least phonetic so that's not a problem. > > > > Thanks for the heads-up on Long Section. I imagine that it's placement in > > the Menus would make it apparent what it was. > > > > Do you provide a demo version that times-out after a short period so I > > could at least get my feet wet? > > > > -- > > Don Reichle > > Hacker Engineering, Inc. > > "King of Work-Arounds" > > > > > > "Laurie Comerford" wrote in message > > news:4162fec8_2@newsprd01... > >> Hi Don, > >> > >> At the moment it is entirely metric and Australian terminology based. > >> > >> Metric: > >> This ultimately doesn't matter You put imperial data into the system and > >> it > >> gets processed with exactly the same formulae. The only noticeable item > >> would be the default section sampling widths of 10 drawing units each > >> side > >> which would be a bit too narrow if it was feet, and the default Template > >> which is about 8 drawing units wide overall. The default section > >> sampling > >> spacing in 10 units also. This can be adjusted and will in due course. > >> > >> Terminology: > >> The menu commands are easily changed. The road menu uses "Kerb" twice, > >> and > >> uses "Long Section" twice rather than Profile, the Drainage menu uses > >> "Long > >> Section" once as does the Sewer menu. > >> > >> Inside the program and reports, we would use Chainage quite a bit, but > >> it's > >> not that hard to change. > >> > >> Plotting headers are user configurable. > >> > >> Help files would need a large search and replace, and the AVI files would > >> have to be redone where Chainage has been used. How critical would the > >> use > >> of "Chainage" be in the USA ? > >> > >> > >> -- > >> > >> > >> Laurie Comerford > >> CADApps > >> www.cadapps.com.au > >> > >> > >> "Don Reichle" wrote in message > >> news:4162a142_3@newsprd01... > >>> Laurie; > >>> > >>> OK, I'll nibble at the bait. > >>> > >>> Is it Imperial-friendly? You seem like someone who Considers The Options > >>> from the get-go, so I'm asking if it is only built for Metric? > >>> > >>> Would us Yanks get tripped up by your regional terms like kerb and > >> chainage? > >>> > >>> -- > >>> Don Reichle > >>> Hacker Engineering, Inc. > >>> "King of Work-Arounds" > >>> > >>> > >>> "Laurie Comerford" wrote in message > >>> news:416284f3_2@newsprd01... > >>> > Hi Don, > >>> > > >>> > It's not even vaguely tenacious. Compare it with hand drafting the > >>> > sections. > >>> > > >>> > 20 years ago I worked for a firm who basically charged $1,500/drawing. > >>> > With > >>> > Sheet Manager I can churn them out as a finished - checked product > >>> > title > >>> > block etc.in 15 minutes for cross sections and 30 minutes for > >>> > profiles. > >>> > Overall, I'm allowing for the odd design change as well. The actual > >>> > generation time is about 10 seconds/sheet, but there is always cleanup > >>> > drafting and drawing assembly. Allow a little time for the design and > >> you > >>> > can see a profitable business potential. > >>> > > >>> > If it wasn't for Advanced Road Design we would still be building Style > >>> > Sheets for clients. With ARD, we are realistically looking at > >>> > designing > >>> > and > >>> > plotting things like the roads and drainage for a 200 lot subdivision > >>> > (including intersections, cul-de-sacs etc.) in a day, and Land Desktop > >> and > >>> > Civil Design, even with a fully setup Sheet Manager is still a long > >>> > way > >>> > away > >>> > from that level of functionality. > >>> > > >>> > -- > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > Laurie Comerford > >>> > CADApps > >>> > www.cadapps.com.au > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > "Don Reichle" wrote in message > >>> > news:41624dbb_3@newsprd01... > >>> >> Laurie; > >>> >> > >>> >> I've been called tenacious as a bulldog before (in a positive way, no > >>> > less), > >>> >> but I think that recitation takes the crown and places it on a > >>> >> well-deserving brow. Knowing first-hand what you've gone through to > >> whip > >>> >> that portion of the app into something useable, I have only one thing > >>> >> left > >>> >> to say... > >>> >> > >>> >> "I bow before my betters!" Well-done, old chap! > >>> >> > >>> >> But did the experience leave any interesting scars you'd care to > >>> >> share, > >>> > like > >>> >> Mick Dundee? > >>> >> > >>> >> I think SM bears a fair resemblance to a salt-water croc. > >>> >> > >>> >> -- > >>> >> Don Reichle > >>> >> Hacker Engineering, Inc. > >>> >> "King of Work-Arounds" > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> "Laurie Comerford" wrote > >>> >> in > >>> >> message news:41623d80$1_3@newsprd01... > >>> >> > Hi Don, > >>> >> > > >>> >> > My personal experience in this area was that it took me about 4 > >>> >> > hours > >>> >> > of > >>> >> > experiment (on a very slow computer in Softdesk 7.5) to understand > >> how > >>> > to > >>> >> > use Style Sheets and what the limitations of the process were. > >>> >> > > >>> >> > It took me about a day to learn to modify a profile sheet and > >>> >> > understand > >>> >> > the > >>> >> > nuances of doing so. It took another 12 months to develop a full > >>> >> > kit > >>> > for > >>> >> > dealing with other aspects of defining style sheets and recognising > >> the > >>> >> > how > >>> >> > to deal with the bugs in the style sheet definition process and > >> devise > >>> >> > a > >>> >> > systematic process for getting it right first try. > >>> >> > > >>> >> > I also had to learn how to create finished drawings where you need > >>> >> > to > >>> >> > assemble several components on one drawing. I'm not a draftsman > >>> >> > and > >>> > other > >>> >> > users would be much better than me here. > >>> >> > > >>> >> > It took about 6 weeks elapsed time and perhaps 30 hours to totally > >>> >> > learn > >>> >> > the > >>> >> > limitations of the cross section process and to write a lisp > >>> >> > program > >> to > >>> >> > fill > >>> >> > in the gaps as they apply to drafting practices in Australia. Of > >> this > >>> >> > time > >>> >> > period, I would suspect about 10% would apply in the USA as the > >>> >> > software > >>> >> > is > >>> >> > written to reflect USA drafting practices. > >>> >> > > >>> >> > With a modern computer that learning curve would be reduced to less > >>> >> > than > >>> >> > half. Each time I generated a sheet it took about 10 minutes, > >> compared > >>> >> > with > >>> >> > about 10 seconds now. This certainly destroyed concentration and > >>> > allowed > >>> >> > me to forget what I did last. > >>> >> > > >>> >> > My understanding of programming has improved and I've re-written > >>> >> > the > >>> >> > cross-section process in VBA which took a day or so compared with > >>> > several > >>> >> > days for the lisp. > >>> >> > > >>> >> > It took a couple of years before I found out about > >> "cd_nolayercreate", > >>> >> > a > >>> >> > critical part of defining your own style sheets. > >>> >> > > >>> >> > During this time period I also wrote about 100 pages of > >>> >> > documentation > >>> >> > on > >>> >> > the > >>> >> > various aspects of Sheet Manager. We include this on the > >>> >> > Australian > >>> >> > Supplementary CD as well as set of local sheets. > >>> >> > > >>> >> > -- > >>> >> > > >>> >> > Regards > >>> >> > > >>> >> > > >>> >> > Laurie Comerford > >>> >> > www.cadapps.com.au > >>> >> > > >>> >> > "Don Reichle" wrote in message > >>> >> > news:41622507_1@newsprd01... > >>> >> >> Jon, > >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> I also am interested in saving myself time, so tkaing the long > >>> >> >> learning > >>> >> >> curve I've experienced in just the setup phase of Sheet Manager, > >>> >> >> and > >>> > the > >>> >> >> minefield analogy I alluded to into account I've discarded SM in > >>> >> >> my > >>> >> >> search > >>> >> >> for Useful Tools to do Useful Work. > >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> If you have invested the necessary time into it to make it work > >>> >> >> for > >>> > you, > >>> >> > you > >>> >> >> have my respect. > >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> May I ask how long it took you to learn its subtle nuances? I'm > >>> >> >> not > >>> >> >> trying > >>> >> >> to "bait" you here. I am open-minded enough to reconsider > >>> >> >> something > >>> > once > >>> >> >> shown the error of my ways. > >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> -- > >>> >> >> Don Reichle > >>> >> >> Hacker Engineering, Inc. > >>> >> >> "King of Work-Arounds" > >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> "Jon Luby" wrote in message > >>> >> >> news:1308557.1096812779779.JavaMail.jive@jiveforum2.autodesk.com... > >>> >> >> > Don, > >>> >> >> > > >>> >> >> > The idea here was to show how to automate a process. For folks > >> with > >>> >> >> > multiple sheet needs, this process will save time. If your way > >>> > works, > >>> >> > I'm > >>> >> >> > definitely a proponent of using it. > >>> >> >> > > >>> >> >> > As for me, when I have large project work, I prefer to find a > >>> > solution > >>> >> >> > that will ultimately save me time; clearly, you don't need that > >>> >> > solution. > >>> >> >> > > >>> >> >> > Jon > >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> > >>> >> > > >>> >> > > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > > > > > >

[Anonymous]

Hi Don, I've just had a look at the AVI on the web site and it shows Version 4 of ARD. Also we don't expect users to operate at the same speed as Rad. The software does that. The current version is much more automated. I found I had to Stop the playback and restart it to actually view it. -- Regards Laurie Comerford www.cadapps.com.au "Laurie Comerford" wrote in message news:4165a87b_3@newsprd01... > Hi Don, > > All our latest AVIs are made with Camtasia which has it own plugin and which > is installed with the program. > > When I get to the office, I'll check it out. > > -- > > > Laurie Comerford > CADApps > www.cadapps.com.au > > "Don Reichle" wrote in message > news:41653c57_3@newsprd01... > > Laurie; > > > > I was able to get a copy of your ARD brochure, but each time I click the > AVI > > link another window appears and disappears. And yes I am holding down the > > Control key to avoid my Pop-up Blocker when I click the link. Do I need to > > download an Add-In to IE to be able to view the AVI? > > > > "Levels" equals elevations, correct? > > > > -- > > Don Reichle > > Hacker Engineering, Inc. > > "King of Work-Arounds" > > > > > > "Don Reichle" wrote in message > > news:41653a11_2@newsprd01... > > > Laurie; > > > > > > Well, since I seem to remember you provide a definition once upon a > time, > > > is chainage the regional term for stationing? > > > > > > I just tried dictionary.com and google to get answers with no success. > > > > > > Kerb is at least phonetic so that's not a problem. > > > > > > Thanks for the heads-up on Long Section. I imagine that it's placement > in > > > the Menus would make it apparent what it was. > > > > > > Do you provide a demo version that times-out after a short period so I > > > could at least get my feet wet? > > > > > > -- > > > Don Reichle > > > Hacker Engineering, Inc. > > > "King of Work-Arounds" > > > > > > > > > "Laurie Comerford" wrote in message > > > news:4162fec8_2@newsprd01... > > >> Hi Don, > > >> > > >> At the moment it is entirely metric and Australian terminology based. > > >> > > >> Metric: > > >> This ultimately doesn't matter You put imperial data into the system > and > > >> it > > >> gets processed with exactly the same formulae. The only noticeable > item > > >> would be the default section sampling widths of 10 drawing units each > > >> side > > >> which would be a bit too narrow if it was feet, and the default > Template > > >> which is about 8 drawing units wide overall. The default section > > >> sampling > > >> spacing in 10 units also. This can be adjusted and will in due course. > > >> > > >> Terminology: > > >> The menu commands are easily changed. The road menu uses "Kerb" twice, > > >> and > > >> uses "Long Section" twice rather than Profile, the Drainage menu uses > > >> "Long > > >> Section" once as does the Sewer menu. > > >> > > >> Inside the program and reports, we would use Chainage quite a bit, but > > >> it's > > >> not that hard to change. > > >> > > >> Plotting headers are user configurable. > > >> > > >> Help files would need a large search and replace, and the AVI files > would > > >> have to be redone where Chainage has been used. How critical would the > > >> use > > >> of "Chainage" be in the USA ? > > >> > > >> > > >> -- > > >> > > >> > > >> Laurie Comerford > > >> CADApps > > >> www.cadapps.com.au > > >> > > >> > > >> "Don Reichle" wrote in message > > >> news:4162a142_3@newsprd01... > > >>> Laurie; > > >>> > > >>> OK, I'll nibble at the bait. > > >>> > > >>> Is it Imperial-friendly? You seem like someone who Considers The > Options > > >>> from the get-go, so I'm asking if it is only built for Metric? > > >>> > > >>> Would us Yanks get tripped up by your regional terms like kerb and > > >> chainage? > > >>> > > >>> -- > > >>> Don Reichle > > >>> Hacker Engineering, Inc. > > >>> "King of Work-Arounds" > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> "Laurie Comerford" wrote in message > > >>> news:416284f3_2@newsprd01... > > >>> > Hi Don, > > >>> > > > >>> > It's not even vaguely tenacious. Compare it with hand drafting the > > >>> > sections. > > >>> > > > >>> > 20 years ago I worked for a firm who basically charged > $1,500/drawing. > > >>> > With > > >>> > Sheet Manager I can churn them out as a finished - checked product > > >>> > title > > >>> > block etc.in 15 minutes for cross sections and 30 minutes for > > >>> > profiles. > > >>> > Overall, I'm allowing for the odd design change as well. The actual > > >>> > generation time is about 10 seconds/sheet, but there is always > cleanup > > >>> > drafting and drawing assembly. Allow a little time for the design > and > > >> you > > >>> > can see a profitable business potential. > > >>> > > > >>> > If it wasn't for Advanced Road Design we would still be building > Style > > >>> > Sheets for clients. With ARD, we are realistically looking at > > >>> > designing > > >>> > and > > >>> > plotting things like the roads and drainage for a 200 lot > subdivision > > >>> > (including intersections, cul-de-sacs etc.) in a day, and Land > Desktop > > >> and > > >>> > Civil Design, even with a fully setup Sheet Manager is still a long > > >>> > way > > >>> > away > > >>> > from that level of functionality. > > >>> > > > >>> > -- > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > Laurie Comerford > > >>> > CADApps > > >>> > www.cadapps.com.au > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > "Don Reichle" wrote in message > > >>> > news:41624dbb_3@newsprd01... > > >>> >> Laurie; > > >>> >> > > >>> >> I've been called tenacious as a bulldog before (in a positive way, > no > > >>> > less), > > >>> >> but I think that recitation takes the crown and places it on a > > >>> >> well-deserving brow. Knowing first-hand what you've gone through to > > >> whip > > >>> >> that portion of the app into something useable, I have only one > thing > > >>> >> left > > >>> >> to say... > > >>> >> > > >>> >> "I bow before my betters!" Well-done, old chap! > > >>> >> > > >>> >> But did the experience leave any interesting scars you'd care to > > >>> >> share, > > >>> > like > > >>> >> Mick Dundee? > > >>> >> > > >>> >> I think SM bears a fair resemblance to a salt-water croc. > > >>> >> > > >>> >> -- > > >>> >> Don Reichle > > >>> >> Hacker Engineering, Inc. > > >>> >> "King of Work-Arounds" > > >>> >> > > >>> >> > > >>> >> "Laurie Comerford" > wrote > > >>> >> in > > >>> >> message news:41623d80$1_3@newsprd01... > > >>> >> > Hi Don, > > >>> >> > > > >>> >> > My personal experience in this area was that it took me about 4 > > >>> >> > hours > > >>> >> > of > > >>> >> > experiment (on a very slow computer in Softdesk 7.5) to > understand > > >> how > > >>> > to > > >>> >> > use Style Sheets and what the limitations of the process were. > > >>> >> > > > >>> >> > It took me about a day to learn to modify a profile sheet and > > >>> >> > understand > > >>> >> > the > > >>> >> > nuances of doing so. It took another 12 months to develop a full > > >>> >> > kit > > >>> > for > > >>> >> > dealing with other aspects of defining style sheets and > recognising > > >> the > > >>> >> > how > > >>> >> > to deal with the bugs in the style sheet definition process and > > >> devise > > >>> >> > a > > >>> >> > systematic process for getting it right first try. > > >>> >> > > > >>> >> > I also had to learn how to create finished drawings where you > need > > >>> >> > to > > >>> >> > assemble several components on one drawing. I'm not a draftsman > > >>> >> > and > > >>> > other > > >>> >> > users would be much better than me here. > > >>> >> > > > >>> >> > It took about 6 weeks elapsed time and perhaps 30 hours to > totally > > >>> >> > learn > > >>> >> > the > > >>> >> > limitations of the cross section process and to write a lisp > > >>> >> > program > > >> to > > >>> >> > fill > > >>> >> > in the gaps as they apply to drafting practices in Australia. Of > > >> this > > >>> >> > time > > >>> >> > period, I would suspect about 10% would apply in the USA as the > > >>> >> > software > > >>> >> > is > > >>> >> > written to reflect USA drafting practices. > > >>> >> > > > >>> >> > With a modern computer that learning curve would be reduced to > less > > >>> >> > than > > >>> >> > half. Each time I generated a sheet it took about 10 minutes, > > >> compared > > >>> >> > with > > >>> >> > about 10 seconds now. This certainly destroyed concentration > and > > >>> > allowed > > >>> >> > me to forget what I did last. > > >>> >> > > > >>> >> > My understanding of programming has improved and I've re-written > > >>> >> > the > > >>> >> > cross-section process in VBA which took a day or so compared with > > >>> > several > > >>> >> > days for the lisp. > > >>> >> > > > >>> >> > It took a couple of years before I found out about > > >> "cd_nolayercreate", > > >>> >> > a > > >>> >> > critical part of defining your own style sheets. > > >>> >> > > > >>> >> > During this time period I also wrote about 100 pages of > > >>> >> > documentation > > >>> >> > on > > >>> >> > the > > >>> >> > various aspects of Sheet Manager. We include this on the > > >>> >> > Australian > > >>> >> > Supplementary CD as well as set of local sheets. > > >>> >> > > > >>> >> > -- > > >>> >> > > > >>> >> > Regards > > >>> >> > > > >>> >> > > > >>> >> > Laurie Comerford > > >>> >> > www.cadapps.com.au > > >>> >> > > > >>> >> > "Don Reichle" wrote in message > > >>> >> > news:41622507_1@newsprd01... > > >>> >> >> Jon, > > >>> >> >> > > >>> >> >> I also am interested in saving myself time, so tkaing the long > > >>> >> >> learning > > >>> >> >> curve I've experienced in just the setup phase of Sheet Manager, > > >>> >> >> and > > >>> > the > > >>> >> >> minefield analogy I alluded to into account I've discarded SM in > > >>> >> >> my > > >>> >> >> search > > >>> >> >> for Useful Tools to do Useful Work. > > >>> >> >> > > >>> >> >> If you have invested the necessary time into it to make it work > > >>> >> >> for > > >>> > you, > > >>> >> > you > > >>> >> >> have my respect. > > >>> >> >> > > >>> >> >> May I ask how long it took you to learn its subtle nuances? I'm > > >>> >> >> not > > >>> >> >> trying > > >>> >> >> to "bait" you here. I am open-minded enough to reconsider > > >>> >> >> something > > >>> > once > > >>> >> >> shown the error of my ways. > > >>> >> >> > > >>> >> >> -- > > >>> >> >> Don Reichle > > >>> >> >> Hacker Engineering, Inc. > > >>> >> >> "King of Work-Arounds" > > >>> >> >> > > >>> >> >> > > >>> >> >> "Jon Luby" wrote in message > > >>> >> >> > news:1308557.1096812779779.JavaMail.jive@jiveforum2.autodesk.com... > > >>> >> >> > Don, > > >>> >> >> > > > >>> >> >> > The idea here was to show how to automate a process. For > folks > > >> with > > >>> >> >> > multiple sheet needs, this process will save time. If your > way > > >>> > works, > > >>> >> > I'm > > >>> >> >> > definitely a proponent of using it. > > >>> >> >> > > > >>> >> >> > As for me, when I have large project work, I prefer to find a > > >>> > solution > > >>> >> >> > that will ultimately save me time; clearly, you don't need > that > > >>> >> > solution. > > >>> >> >> > > > >>> >> >> > Jon > > >>> >> >> > > >>> >> >> > > >>> >> > > > >>> >> > > > >>> >> > > >>> >> > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > >>> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >