AutoCAD Electrical General Discussion

AutoCAD Electrical General Discussion

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Distinguished Contributor
Justin2012
Posts: 221
Registered: ‎01-25-2012
Message 1 of 13 (336 Views)

Scaling

336 Views, 12 Replies
01-30-2012 05:22 AM

Hey I posted the below and haven't had any assistance. Please pardon me if the the below question is so easy. I am wokring on a class project and currently stock. Please help. Thanks! :

 

I am new to this software and I will kindly appreciate your assistance. Where is the HTG112 symbol in a closed top position located or do i need to use symbol builder? Also, how can i increase the size of my drawings icons without messing anything? Lastly, what settings do i need to change to make the moving and copying of components to snap at the center?

 

Thanks,

 

Mentor
johnq
Posts: 219
Registered: ‎05-24-2011
Message 2 of 13 (324 Views)

Re: Scaling

01-30-2012 05:52 PM in reply to: Justin2012

Hi Justin

 

On my machine ACE2012 the symbol HTG112 is in the JIC125 library.

 

I have only 18 months using ACE,  my humble understanding is that the only wAy to change the snap point you describe (  ie the point that moved a symbol)   is to redraw everything and move the insertion point.

 

I ponder why you need to do this.  I assume you are drawing on a grid.  This programme seems to require a grid which at first is awkward after a previous program I used, did not demand a grid.

 

I do find some of the insertion points generic rather than practical.

 

I started with A1 drawings and print A3 and regret it.   It has caused some problems that scalling the data base has not resolved.

 

Hope this helps  johnq

 

Some of my predecessore scalled the paper to suite the circuit  then printed A3.  This has been a challenge.

Distinguished Contributor
Justin2012
Posts: 221
Registered: ‎01-25-2012
Message 3 of 13 (314 Views)

Re: Scaling

01-31-2012 06:25 AM in reply to: Justin2012

Thanks for the response.

 

I understand the symbol is located in the JIC125 file and is a NO-SPDT. My question is how to generate a NC-SPDT symbol without using symbol builder?

 

How do you suggest or what settings do I need to implement to change the location of the insertion point when moving components?

 

So what you are saying is I cannot increase the scale of my drawing?I had to zoom when working on a schematic. Also, the schematic is very samll when I print(11 x 17) it.

 

Thanks and waiitng for your assistance

 

Justin

 

*Expert Elite*
dougmcalexander
Posts: 3,222
Registered: ‎10-18-2003
Message 4 of 13 (311 Views)

Re: Scaling

01-31-2012 06:51 AM in reply to: Justin2012

You should not change the base point of your symbols.  There are two versions of each symbol, one for vertically-oriented wires and one for horizontally-oriented.  The base point is set to the center so the software can interchange the symbols as necessary, according to the orientation of the wire where you insert the symbol.

 

The toggle switch symbols that are included match the ANSI standard, but what you are looking can easily be created.  I copied the HTG112 file and renamed the copy to HTG112NC. I then edited the symbol with plain AutoCAD, gripped the wiper and moved it to make it appear as a toggle switch that is in a normally-closed state. I have attached the symbol.

 

Are you perhaps looking for a Form-C relay contact (a.k.a. Changeover contact or a.k.a. SPDT relay contact) instead.  That is available in one of the IEC libraries.  I have also created equivalent symbols for the JIC125 library.  I have attached a zip file with the 4 variations of a Changeover/Form-C/SPDT relay contact.  Since each of these has an equivalent IEC version, the library swap will precisely interchange them.

 

If you wish to scale the symbols automatically on insert, set the Feature Scale Multiplier to an appropriate setting.  The FSM is found on the last tab of Drawing Settings.  You could set it to 2 to scale everything up twice, or you could set to 0.5 to scale everything by one-half.  I do not recommend attempting to scale inches to metric or vice versa using the FSM as this can cause issues with the wire trap distance, resulting in strange wire network numbering.  Hint: Set the Feature Scale Multiplier in your Electrical drawing template so each new drawing you start will already have it set.

Doug McAlexander
Independent Consultant/Instructor/Mentor specializing in AutoCAD Electrical, ecscad, and promis-e implementation

Web site: www.ECADConsultant.com
Phone: (770) 841-8009

Please Accept as Solution if I helped you. Kudos are also much appreciated.
Distinguished Contributor
Justin2012
Posts: 221
Registered: ‎01-25-2012
Message 5 of 13 (302 Views)

Re: Scaling

01-31-2012 11:15 AM in reply to: Justin2012

I understand it is not recommended to change the base point settings but if I run into a situation where the snap point is not user friendly can you tell me how I can change it before resettiing it back to the default setting? 

 

I changed the FSM to 2.0 on a current schemtic but no effect? Can you suggest what might be the issue?

 

Thanks again.

Justin 

 

*Expert Elite*
dougmcalexander
Posts: 3,222
Registered: ‎10-18-2003
Message 6 of 13 (296 Views)

Re: Scaling

01-31-2012 01:27 PM in reply to: Justin2012

Electrical doesn't require snap, unlike the other software I've used, but I do highly recommend using snap so wires don't need to bend in order to match up to connection points.  You can set snap to a small setting if you wish but I recommend using snap.  I use 0.0625 for ladder diagrams and 1.25 for IEC metric style.

 

The FSM affects symbols as they are inserted.  If you have already inserted symbols on a drawing they won't be changed simply by changing the FSM value.  Another approach is to scale the library folder.  I recommend copying the folder to a new name so you always have the original to to go back to if needed.  I have a copy of the IEC4 library renamed to IEC_024.  I ran the Modify Symbol Library utility and scaled by 0.024 so the IEC symbols would fit a B sheet nicely.  There is a scale field on the Icon Menu but it only scales component symbols, not features.  Features are symbols that you don't insert but are handled by the software.  These are symbols like node dots and angled tees.  The software also controls the offset distance when you start an additional wire from a component that already has one wire connected.  A FSM setting higher than 1 increases the offset while a value less than 1 decreases it.  I don't really concern myself with that offset but I just point out that it is another of te features managed by the FSM.  The FSM is powerful because it scales features and symbols as they are inserted.  Scaling to entire library accomplishes the same thing and you can leave the FSM set to 1.0.

Doug McAlexander
Independent Consultant/Instructor/Mentor specializing in AutoCAD Electrical, ecscad, and promis-e implementation

Web site: www.ECADConsultant.com
Phone: (770) 841-8009

Please Accept as Solution if I helped you. Kudos are also much appreciated.
Distinguished Contributor
Justin2012
Posts: 221
Registered: ‎01-25-2012
Message 7 of 13 (284 Views)

Re: Scaling

02-01-2012 05:55 AM in reply to: Justin2012

Lets say you insert a fuse into a schematic and now want to attach/copy it to different wires. The picking point on the fuse is at the center.My question is if I want the selection point not to be on the center but on the front how will you recommend me doing that? Also I created a symbol and as I want to insert it to the schematic(base point is correct) it snaps further away from my schematic. Am I doing something wrong or what do you suggest?

 

I think changing the scale on the library will be best for me. What steps or how will I approach doing this? I want to be very careful so as not to mess up anything that's why I am asking.

 

Thanks again,

Justin

Mentor
johnq
Posts: 219
Registered: ‎05-24-2011
Message 8 of 13 (269 Views)

Re: Scaling

02-01-2012 01:26 PM in reply to: Justin2012

Hi Justin

 

If I read you correctly, it seems that you are not drawing on a grid.  If you are please excuse me for jumping to the wrong conclusion.

 

ELECDES is another electrical drawing package that I used for some time and runs on top of Generic AutoCAD.  It does not demand the use of a grid.

 

So when my employer changed to ACE, a grid is almost manditory and for me it was difficult to come to grips with the grid concept.

 

Initally I found it restrictive but many features in ACE work due to the grid.

 

Once learnt the snap points of the standard supplied blocks it works well and moving the text to suite is easier than trying to change the insertion point of standard parts.

 

When I draw my special blocks I set the insertion point to suit the componant.

 

 Symbol Builder is quite intricate but very good and flexable once the inital barriers are understood.

 

Cheers  jq

 

 

 

 

Distinguished Contributor
Justin2012
Posts: 221
Registered: ‎01-25-2012
Message 9 of 13 (209 Views)

Re: Scaling

04-05-2012 12:44 PM in reply to: dougmcalexander

I need some help...When I rescale a drawing the components line reference numbers of course changes. Is there way that this software can automatically update all the line reference and changes?  I am currently stock and don't want to redo the entire schematic.

 

Please assist . Thanks.

Distinguished Contributor
Justin2012
Posts: 221
Registered: ‎01-25-2012
Message 10 of 13 (183 Views)

Re: Scaling

04-09-2012 08:29 AM in reply to: Justin2012

I just realize that a coil for some reason is referencing a wrong line reference #. I don't know what I've done for this to be happening. How can I update all parent-child relationship or all changes done in a schematic so the components and line referencing is correct?.

 

I will really appreciate your help.

 

Thanks.

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