Same component on multiple drawings.

[Anonymous]

Is there a way to reference one schematic component on multiple drawings and have them updated if one drawing or another change. For example i want to show a control panel w/ detail connections to a remote operators station. On the control panel drawing, i draw up the ladder diagram w/ the remote located start stop pushbuttons. On the operators station drawing, i draw up the start/stop pushbutton just wired to terminal blocks.

[pvpatel]

It seems to me only parent components can be duplicated using the P_TAG1, how about If I want to show the same child contact twice in my project, how do I go about doing that?

[drathak]

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@pvpatel wrote:

It seems to me only parent components can be duplicated using the P_TAG1, how about If I want to show the same child contact twice in my project, how do I go about doing that?

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I don't think you can at present.  At least not a second intelligent copy of that child contact.  

Can you give an example of what you need to do?  That might help us point you in the right direction.

[pvpatel]

Hi Joe,

   This is Pravin from Southern Company. As you are aware in utility industry a child component of a relay (for example NO contact) is sometimes shown as as a reference in other drawings. The goal is to have the reference symbol "intelligent" so that if the actual schematic child symbol change (terminal assignment and description), it should automatically update the reference symbol. I have looked into the Peer symbols with attribute WDTYPE but this doesn't solve the issue. The peer symbol only works for Parent Symbols and there is limitation to it as well; it doesn't link the terminal numbers assignments on the schematic representation. I wanted to see if someone here in AE community had a solution to this. I don't think there is a solution for this in AE as of yet. May be in the future they can have a feature where you can assign a symbol component as reference.

[dougmcalexander]

Symbols that would be related between 3-line and 1-line carry an attribute called WDTYPE with a value of 1-.  Pneumatic symbols have a WDTYPE attribute with a value of PN, hydraulic with HY, and P&ID with a value of PI.  This WDTYPE attribute essentially allows two symbols of different engineering disciplines to share a common tag. 

So for the power industry I have used a similar approach for safety relays.  One view is a regular relay contact symbol.  For the reference view I insert a modified version of the same type of relay symbol, but with a WDTYPE attribute added and I set the value to REF for reference.  (see attached) You can use the Parent-Sibling button to associate the child contact with the same parent, but you will have to manually enter the pin assignments, since they will probably have already been assigned to the non-reference contacts.

The functional description attributes will update if the parent coil descriptions are changed, but the pin assignments will still require a manual update.  But by using the arrows to increase and decrease the pin assignments it doesn't take long at all.  The surfer will also see the reference contacts and include the WDTYPE value so you know which ones are the reference contacts.  (see attached)

[drathak]

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@dougmcalexander wrote:

So for the power industry I have used a similar approach for safety relays.  One view is a regular relay contact symbol.  For the reference view I insert a modified version of the same type of relay symbol, but with a WDTYPE attribute added and I set the value to REF for reference.  (see attached) You can use the Parent-Sibling button to associate the child contact with the same parent, but you will have to manually enter the pin assignments, since they will probably have already been assigned to the non-reference contacts.

The functional description attributes will update if the parent coil descriptions are changed, but the pin assignments will still require a manual update.  But by using the arrows to increase and decrease the pin assignments it doesn't take long at all.  The surfer will also see the reference contacts and include the WDTYPE value so you know which ones are the reference contacts.  (see attached)

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What impact do these have on the wire annotation routines?  Are they ignored?

[dougmcalexander]

I like to prepare my footprints with the special wire annotation attributes so the wiring data is dropped onto the footprint at a predetermined location, based upon the pin assignments. I prefer this look over the table. It also takes less room.

The footprint is still linked via the parent symbol, like normal. The wire annotations are based on the actual intelligent wires that connect to the child contacts. The reference contacts have no intelligent wires attached so there is no risk of duplication anyway. The WDTYPE attribute essentially informs AutoCAD Electrical to consider the repeated child as another view of an existing contact.

[kwj]

Doug, this is great. I've been using AcadE for a couple years and never even knew "For reference only" was there. In that time, I have been on the lookout for a way to show my terminal block footprints on both the panel layout drawing and a separate details drawing that is just an exploded terminal block view. Is this the way you would recommend doing that?

[dougmcalexander]

I've done it two ways over the years, and it really depends upon which my customer prefers.  If they want to show the details of the terminal strip on the same drawing as the panel, I copy the terminal strip  and paste it out to the side of the panel.  I then scale it up by double and use the Special Explode utility to turn it into dumb lines, circles, squares, and text.

Another option is to create terminal strip detail drawings.  Set these drawings For Reference Only.  Copy the terminal strips from the panel layout drawing and paste into the detail drawing.  There is usually no need to use Special Explode in this case.  The strip remains intelligent but, since the drawing is marked as For Reference Only, the data is ignored by the project data manager.  Using this method, these parts will not appear as duplicates in the BOM.  I have set up and taught many of my customers this method after I conducted a process assessment and determined that this would be the best workflow for them.  A process assessment is something that I do for customers as part of streamlining their CAD system.  The nice thing about the For Reference Only method is that if you must later resequence the item numbers, simply uncheck the For Reference Only box before you run the Resequence Item numbers utility and the terminal strips/balloons on the detail drawings will update at the same time as the ones in the panel layout.  Just be sure to go back and check the For Reference Only box after you finish the item number resequence.