Reversing Starters, Overloads and the such??

[sonny3g]

I was wondering if there is a way to show in the schematic two separate coils and the overload of a reversing starter and still have their respective tags linked to the single panel layout device?  I have a client that uses a single part number for a reversing starter with overloads but wants three different tags located on the panel layout symbol.  One tag each for the coils and one for the Overload relay.

Do you think it might be possible using either wdtagalt or possibly tag_part1/tag_part2 type attributes?

[jalger]

Hi Scott,

Not sure if this works for the clients situation, but they could do 3 parent symbols (use the dashed link line, and match there tags). and use the 3 line overload for the other symbol. That would give you the 4 tags to map to on the panel.

On the schematic side wdtagalt should work for linking them.

I'm not sure if the wdtagalt works on the Panel. ( maybe I'm misunderstanding whats being done).

Regards,

James

[drathak]

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@sonny3g wrote:

I was wondering if there is a way to show in the schematic two separate coils and the overload of a reversing starter and still have their respective tags linked to the single panel layout device?  I have a client that uses a single part number for a reversing starter with overloads but wants three different tags located on the panel layout symbol.  One tag each for the coils and one for the Overload relay.

Do you think it might be possible using either wdtagalt or possibly tag_part1/tag_part2 type attributes?

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Not sure I'm following either.

So, on the schematic they want three different symbols, all with the same part number (all parts of the same device?) and I presume one TAG value on the schematics, but wants to split them up and have different TAG's on the panel drawing?

I guess my first question would be why on earth would you want to do that?  Or is it that they want the three parts on the panel only "labeled" differently?  Or are we seriously talking three different P_TAG values?

[sonny3g]

We have a tag for each coil and the overload relay in the schematic that needs to be carried over to the panel layout.  These three devices are really a single device physically and has a single part number.

[drathak]

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@sonny3g wrote:

We have a tag for each coil and the overload relay in the schematic that needs to be carried over to the panel layout.  These three devices are really a single device physically and has a single part number.

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How different are the tags?  If it something like ABC-1, ABC-2, then you could just handle the "-#" part by using one of the DESC attributes to hold that and putting the attributes together.  Of course this means new symbols.

Could you use only one actual TAG on the main coil (parent) and have the other coil and overload relay (another coil?) hold thier "tags" in one of the DESC fields?  Your panel footprint would need to use those attributes to display the other fasle tags.  This also means new or edited symbols.

Can you post CAD files of what you want it to look like (all parts) then maybe someone can play around with it and get it to work.

I did do something like this between the one line and schematics using the wdtagalt attribute.  Not sure if it will work across to the panel tag though.  Can't hurt to try .

In the first image below, you can see the attributes in my one line PT symbol.  This shows as a single device, but there are physically three of them.  (One per phase.)  In order to get my BOM right, the schematic needed to have three different TAG's.  So I took the TAG1 value from the one line symbol, and put it in the wdtagalt attribute for each of the three PT symbols in the schematic.  (See second image.)  The system treats them as the same item for surfing, but there are three separate devices.  The third image is surfing from the one line.  Sort of the reverse of what you need.

You could try adding the TAG for the actual part (the symbol holding the catalog info) in each of the other symbols.  That would at least associate them, but I don't know how you could then get all three tags on your panel layout.

[sonny3g]

Unfortunately, the tags are quite different.  They are based on the sheet and line reference for the parent device.  The overload relay is located on the sheet with the motor, load disconnect and contactor contacts.  The coils are located on a PLC I/O sheet and in some instances will take the I/O address as the tag, MO:1.1/00 and in other cases the sheet line reference. 

Right now I leave the overload relay and second coil catalog information blank.  Then I insert a generic panel layout block that is a tiny dot and link it to the schematic tag for the overload relay and second coil.  These dots are then placed on the block linked to the first coil so that their P_TAG attributes are located on the single device.  Long way around and a pain to keep updated when things get changed.

[drathak]

Sometimes, the customer is just wrong.  🙂

[sonny3g]

True, but he still follows the golden rule, "he who has the gold rules"....

[jalger]

Hi Scott,

Maybe you could make a fake catalog number and link it to an Empty box that can be placed in the panel.

The 3 devices would become parents linked together. set the real catalog numberr on one of them and the fake one on the other 2.

That would solve the link issue, but it would cause the BOM to have a false entry... really its a trade off.

The BOM entry could be easier to fix then the cross reference issues, since it would show up grouped as the same catalog number (the fake one).

I hope this helps,

James

[ccad2509]

James i think you might be onto something there i was thinking along the same lines

maybe create an assembly with one item having the mechanical details of the single component with some nodes on a layer that doesn't print so you can locate the 2 other items into there respective position's

the sub assembly part numbers having a prefix something like "dummy"  so you can easily filter out the part numbers from the bom

[rhesusminus · Accepted solution]

Is there any reason that the panel symbol needs to be just ONE symbol?

Can't you just use 3 symbols, and put them on top of each other, so that they look like one symbol? Just place the P_TAG1 on different places in the different symbols?

[sonny3g]

I did not do it that way because I did not think of it.  I looked at it from the perspective of only inserting one device that is the size and shape of the assembled devices and would be moved as one.  However, having to add small dots to carry the P_TAG1 attribute may be more cumbersome than doing it your way.  Your way, I think is better than how I have been doing it.  Thanks.