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Power Distribution Blocks and Wire Numbers

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Message 1 of 11
pqphillips
2413 Views, 10 Replies

Power Distribution Blocks and Wire Numbers

Okay, here's the deal.

 

I have a number of PDBs I've created using Symbol Builder ranging from single phase 1in-4out to 3-phase 1in-20out per phase (a simplistic version of what we use is attached to this post). 

 

The issue I'm running into is with wire numbers.

 

Normally, we just do To/From wiring, but certain clients demand wire numbers (I personally think wire numbers are pointless and unnecessary with To/From available, but that's an entirely different discussion).

 

Basically, what our engineers want to see is no wire number changes between the incoming wire and the outgoing wire. If the wire number for the first phase is 6U, all the outgoing wire numbers should automatically be 6U as well. I can manually force them to do this using the Edit Wire Number tool, but 1) it's extremely time consuming, and 2) I know from seeing the Plug/Jack symbols that a No Wire Number Change is possible (as there are two versions of said symbol, one that changes the wire number and one that doesn't).

 

I took a deep look at the "No Change" PJ symbol to see if I could decipher the mysteries of how it manages to avoid wire number changes and apply it to the PDBs, but I am coming up with blanks on that front.

 

Anyone know how I can get it to do this without scrapping all my work and using terminals and jumpers instead?

10 REPLIES 10
Message 2 of 11
testsubject
in reply to: pqphillips

You need to add this attribute to your symbol; WD_JUMPERS.

 

This attribute adds the ability to internally jumper different terminals in a symbol.

 

In the Value field, add the terminals that you want jumpered together. Each group has to be in parenthesis and parenthesis around the whole thing.

 

To use your example, I would have this in the value field:

 

((01 04 07 10 13)(02 05 08 11 14)(03 06 09 12 15))

 

This should give you what you want.

 

Look up WD_JUMPERS in the help for more info.



Bob Hanrahan
Ace User since 1998
If this answered your question, please click on "Accept Solution"
Message 3 of 11
pqphillips
in reply to: testsubject

Well, I tried it, and even pasted the information your provided into the field, and it did not work. It still numbered the wires individually as if the jumpers didn't work.

Message 4 of 11

Be sure your project properties are not set to wire number on per-wire basis. This forces every wire to be assigned a different number, as opposed to numbering all wires in a node the same. Wire numbers are a great troubleshooting aid. I prefer numbering all wires in a node (a.k.a. network) the same, so I keep the box for per-wire basis unchecked, which is the default setting.


Doug McAlexander


Design Engineer/Consultant/Instructor/Mentor specializing in AutoCAD Electrical training and implementation support

Phone and Web-based Support Plans Available

Phone: (770) 841-8009

www.linkedin.com/in/doug-mcalexander-1a77623




Please Accept as Solution if I helped you. Likes are also much appreciated.
Message 5 of 11

Yep. That did it! Thanks to both of you guys!

Message 6 of 11
pqphillips
in reply to: pqphillips

Okay, another question about this subject.

 

One of the PDBs we use has so many outs on it that it necessitated a Parent/Child setup in order to make it fit on a horizontal page (we don't use vertically oriented pages). Is there a way to do the wire numbering using WD_JUMPERS and have it jumper across a parent and child?

 

 

Message 7 of 11

I don't use a PDB block. Been designing IEC style since 1988. But the method I use could be used for ladder style as well. I cover this on the tips/tricks page of my web site.  Look for the section entitled, "Using AutoCAD® Electrical to create a power bus from terminal blocks."  This method works for PDBs as well.  Only assign a part number to one terminal symbol per PDB strip ID.  For example, maybe I name my PDB -X1.  -X1:0 (the input) will get a part number assignment..  -X1:1, -X1:2, etc. get no part number assigned.  The part number assigned to -X1:0 is mapped in the Footprint Lookup database to the footprint that represents the PDB, so I can insert from the schematic list later, when laying out the panel.

 

I use a terminal symbol (i.e. HT0002) to represent each screw lug of the PDB. The input of my PDB is terminal 0 and the outputs start at 1. That's how they are labeled from the manufacturer. 

 

I connect between terminal symbols using a wire type (layer) named JUMPERBAR. Because the layer has the word jumper in its name it will be filtered out of the from/to list by the software.

I use this same method if the connection is actually a jumper bar or comb jumper. The wire type of JUMPERBAR passes the wire number along from terminal symbol to terminal symbol. Remember that the terminal symbol is representing the screw connection on the PDB. I use signal arrows to pass the JUMPERBAR layer from drawing to drawing, to continue the bus concept.of the PDB throughout my project.  I will have a separate PDB for L1, L2, L3, and N.



Doug McAlexander


Design Engineer/Consultant/Instructor/Mentor specializing in AutoCAD Electrical training and implementation support

Phone and Web-based Support Plans Available

Phone: (770) 841-8009

www.linkedin.com/in/doug-mcalexander-1a77623




Please Accept as Solution if I helped you. Likes are also much appreciated.
Message 8 of 11

So you're saying that there is not a way to use the WD_JUMPERS attribute to pass the wire number between parent and child PDB blocks?
Message 9 of 11

The WD_JUMPERS attribute is used to jumper wire connections within one block, like testsubject explained.  I use this for something like a 1794-TB3 so the wire number for the DC+ enters and exits the same.  Same for the DC-.  The WD_JUMPERS attribute is not intended to connect between blocks.  It cannot because it is simply an attribute within one block.  

 

There is the terminal jumper utility that can essentially pass the same wire number from terminal symbol to terminal symbol by simply engaging the command and clicking all terminals that should be considered as jumpered, therefore sharing the same wire number.  I don't use this method very often because there is no visible indication on the drawing that the terminals are jumpered, other than sharing the same wire number.  I prefer to use my method of connecting between the terminal symbols with a wire layer named JUMPERBAR. With this method my drawing has a visible indication that the terminals are jumpered.

 

So think of a PDB as one giant terminal strip that is already jumpered to create a power bus.  The terminal symbols (i.e. HT0002) simply represent the screw connections on the PDB.  I've been using this method with this software since 1997 and with a competitive software before that.  I have thousands of panels operating worldwide to IEC standards and this was the method I used to document the design and to get the panels built.  This is also the method I teach in my IEC based AutoCAD Electrical training course.



Doug McAlexander


Design Engineer/Consultant/Instructor/Mentor specializing in AutoCAD Electrical training and implementation support

Phone and Web-based Support Plans Available

Phone: (770) 841-8009

www.linkedin.com/in/doug-mcalexander-1a77623




Please Accept as Solution if I helped you. Likes are also much appreciated.
Message 10 of 11
s.wile
in reply to: pqphillips

Just to throw another option in the mix...

A block that uses a 0 (zero) as the third character in its name will automaticly cause ALL wires going through the block to be the same. It doesn't look that this is what your after in this case. I'm only trying to offer more options.

Stan Wile
http://myacade.blogspot.com/
IMAGINiT Technologies
Message 11 of 11
Icemanau
in reply to: pqphillips

And yet another option is to number all the connection points the same.

 

I've noticed this in blocks used for terminals with no wire number change.

The X# changes but the TERM## stays the same. This then passes the number through without changing it.

 

I have used this on a couple of blocks that required some terminals to pass the numbers and other terminals changing the number. I had no problems with how it worked and no extra data had to be inserted into the block.

 

Regards Brad



Icemanau (NNTP handle: Brad Coleman
AutoCAD Electrical User and IT Hardware Support

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