AutoCAD Electrical General Discussion

AutoCAD Electrical General Discussion

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Contributor
matthewjohnston4386
Posts: 22
Registered: ‎06-29-2011
Message 1 of 12 (1,255 Views)
Accepted Solution

Power Bus using Terminal Blocks with 4 entry points

1255 Views, 11 Replies
07-26-2011 01:28 PM

My current job has us use Wago blocks for terminal blocks.  I love their function ality and have added several to our custom parts catalog.  The problem I'm having is with power busses.

 

I have read up on Doug McAlexander's post on how to make a power bus using the Jumper wire layer.  I can see this is a good way to go.  The problem I have is that in Doug's example, and all examples I've seen, each terminal block has only two ports.  We currently use Wago blocks with 4 ports each.  It may seem a little excessive, but it helps with troubleshooting.  With each terminal block having four points of entries for wires, it seems silly to me not to use them.

 

So my question is this:  How do I layout the schematic power bus of a ladder diagram such that I only use one terminal block every four spaces, yet still have the wire from/to list show that the components are connecting to a terminal block bus.

 

Thanks!

Matthew Johnston
Sr. Controls Scientist
Corning Inc.

There is also the option of manually setting the wire sequence.

 

With this option, you select the Wire Sequence tool. Clear all the current settings and then you can add which wires connect in what sequence. The important part here is that you cane set various wire as DIRECT TO TERMINAL. This means that the particular segment will go directly to the terminal you select.

 

If the terminal is set to use 4 wires per connection (as you require), ACADE will add the correct number of terminals in the TSE. This would allo 4 wires per connection point automatically on the TSE and add in enough terminal footprints to fill those requirements.

 

Regards Brad

Mentor
algerj
Posts: 219
Registered: ‎02-25-2010
Message 2 of 12 (1,242 Views)

Re: Power Bus using Terminal Blocks with 4 entry points

07-27-2011 10:25 AM in reply to: matthewjohnston4386

Hi Matthew,

 

The best way to do this is to add multiple levels (4 in this Case). Then assoicate the 4 termial blocks each on a different level.

This effectively joins all 4 terminal together making them show as only one item in the BOM.

This is true for any number of terminals, in the past I have setup multiple Banks for Power, Nuetral, Ground, etc.

In order to do all the changes I recommend starting with the terminals existing in the schematic, then use the Terminal block editor to manage the levels and assoication. 

 

I have attached some Screen shots to help you out.

 

I hope this helps,

 

Regards,

 

James Alger

SolidCAD

 

Contributor
matthewjohnston4386
Posts: 22
Registered: ‎06-29-2011
Message 3 of 12 (1,228 Views)

Re: Power Bus using Terminal Blocks with 4 entry points

07-27-2011 10:36 AM in reply to: algerj

James,

 

I can see what your doing, and this make a lot of sense.  That way the schematic shows a terminal block, but then you use the TBE to "trim down" the number of terminals.  I'll try this out and post what I find.  Thanks!

 

Matthew Johnston

Matthew Johnston
Sr. Controls Scientist
Corning Inc.
Mentor
algerj
Posts: 219
Registered: ‎02-25-2010
Message 4 of 12 (1,225 Views)

Re: Power Bus using Terminal Blocks with 4 entry points

07-27-2011 10:41 AM in reply to: matthewjohnston4386

Yep,

 

All you would need to do at the end (which I forgot to show), is remove the blank terminals that were used up.

Unless you need the spares :smileyhappy:

 

If you have any problems with it let me know, 

 

Regards,

 

James  Alger

SolidCAD

*Expert Elite*
dougmcalexander
Posts: 3,211
Registered: ‎10-18-2003
Message 5 of 12 (1,177 Views)

Re: Power Bus using Terminal Blocks with 4 entry points

08-01-2011 06:09 AM in reply to: matthewjohnston4386

You can conecct a wire to the top, bottom, left, and right of a terminal block symbol to represent a block that has 4 connections.  You can also set the Block Properties to allow for 4 wires maximum if you wish.

Doug McAlexander
Independent Consultant/Instructor/Mentor specializing in AutoCAD Electrical, ecscad, and promis-e implementation

Web site: www.ECADConsultant.com
Phone: (770) 841-8009

Please Accept as Solution if I helped you. Kudos are also much appreciated.
Contributor
matthewjohnston4386
Posts: 22
Registered: ‎06-29-2011
Message 6 of 12 (1,129 Views)

Re: Power Bus using Terminal Blocks with 4 entry points

08-04-2011 08:14 AM in reply to: dougmcalexander

So I understand how to connect the wires to the terminal blocks.  Now the problem I'm having is with Doug's last statement.

 

"You can also set the Block Properties to allow for 4 wires maximum if you wish."

 

I don't really see how you do that.  When I open the block properties, I can set the number of levels just like James suggested, and you can set the number of wires per connection.  The problem is that each "level" has two side to it automatically.  How do I set the maxiumum number of wires per block?

Matthew Johnston
Sr. Controls Scientist
Corning Inc.
*Expert Elite*
dougmcalexander
Posts: 3,211
Registered: ‎10-18-2003
Message 7 of 12 (1,120 Views)

Re: Power Bus using Terminal Blocks with 4 entry points

08-04-2011 09:06 AM in reply to: matthewjohnston4386

Set each wire connection for 1 wire only and your block is constrained to 2 wires per level, one for each side.  Be sure to insert a separate terminal symbol in the schematic to represent each level of a multi-level terminal block.  Use the Multi-level Association utility in Terminal Strip Editor to move an individual terminal into an available level of a multi-level block.  Delete the leftover spare(s).  The TSE will back-annotate the schematic and tell each terminal symbol which level it is assigned to in the multi-level block.

Doug McAlexander
Independent Consultant/Instructor/Mentor specializing in AutoCAD Electrical, ecscad, and promis-e implementation

Web site: www.ECADConsultant.com
Phone: (770) 841-8009

Please Accept as Solution if I helped you. Kudos are also much appreciated.
Mentor
algerj
Posts: 219
Registered: ‎02-25-2010
Message 8 of 12 (1,118 Views)

Re: Power Bus using Terminal Blocks with 4 entry points

08-04-2011 09:10 AM in reply to: matthewjohnston4386

Hi Matthew,

 

What Doug said is complete correct you can set a single level terminal to have 4 wires.

Think of it this way Instead of having 4 terminals treated as one item, you could have one terminal "act" as four by allowing it to have 4 connections.

 

Its just a different way of thinking and it depends how you want to show the terminal in the schematic.

I have Included a Screenshot to help visualize Doug's point.

(Note: I could have drawn them coming from the the top and bottom, however I linked them instead) 

 

Based on how you want to show the terminals, the method I gave to you would be a better fit.

 

Regards,

 

James Alger

SolidCAD

Contributor
matthewjohnston4386
Posts: 22
Registered: ‎06-29-2011
Message 9 of 12 (1,114 Views)

Re: Power Bus using Terminal Blocks with 4 entry points

08-04-2011 09:28 AM in reply to: algerj

Doug and James,

 

Thank you very much for the help.  I see and understand what your telling me to do.  I think the problem is how I want to do things.

 

Essentially I want to create a power bus and have it almost dynamically know how many terminal blocks I need.  I know that this is not really possible, but I'm trying to do a semi automated version.  Remember I'm using terminal block that have four connections available to them, so if I use terminal at each rung of the ladder, I end up with too many terminal blocks.

 

If I associate several blocks with one terminal (the left image from James) then it works.  The problem is if someone goes back later and needs to add a wire to the bus.  It would be nice if the TSE could figure out if a block is needed.  When doing the associate terminal solution, if the wire is added to the block with only 1 wire, then a new block is not added (essentially 5 wires on the block). 

 

If I use one schematic block (the right image from James) then I run into other problems.  I've found that this method creates wire problems as components on the bottom rungs sometimes think they should be wired to the components above instead of the Terminal block.

 

I think I can get something working from this, but it will not be automated as I orginally wanted.  Please see the attachments for what I did.

Matthew Johnston
Sr. Controls Scientist
Corning Inc.
*Expert Elite*
Icemanau
Posts: 1,035
Registered: ‎06-01-2010
Message 10 of 12 (1,085 Views)

Re: Power Bus using Terminal Blocks with 4 entry points

08-04-2011 03:16 PM in reply to: matthewjohnston4386

There is also the option of manually setting the wire sequence.

 

With this option, you select the Wire Sequence tool. Clear all the current settings and then you can add which wires connect in what sequence. The important part here is that you cane set various wire as DIRECT TO TERMINAL. This means that the particular segment will go directly to the terminal you select.

 

If the terminal is set to use 4 wires per connection (as you require), ACADE will add the correct number of terminals in the TSE. This would allo 4 wires per connection point automatically on the TSE and add in enough terminal footprints to fill those requirements.

 

Regards Brad

Icemanau (NNTP handle: Brad Coleman)


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