One Line to Schematic Problem - 3 Single Phase Devices

[drathak]

Today's problem is as follows.  We show symbols on our one line diagrams that represent three single phase devices.  For a simple example, let's use overcurrent relays.  There is one for each of the three phases. (and occasionally one for the neutral, but let's not worry about that for now.)

The one line shows a single symbol with a "3" above it to indicate there are thee relays.  Now, in ACADE I can easily have that symbol, but how do I make it linked to three individual relays, each of which needs to show up in the BOM and have a unique TAG1 value?

This is an issue that will have a lot of impact on our work since it is all three phase.  Newer relays take all three phases in one device, so that isn't a problem.  But we have a LOT of older stuff to document.  Plus there are many other devices that can't easily be represented by a single symbol on the schematic. Window type CT's, for example.  Bus VT's and so forth.

Hope that makes sense.  I'm open to suggestions and questions.

[algerj]

Hi Drathak,

You Could use the Dashed link line command to show them linked to each other

.

For the single line link do you want the Schametic to drive the Tag or Single line to drive the tag?

Depending on which one drives the tag you can go to the opposite and pick the device from the "project" button in the tag section. then select it and you can use the same tag (which creates the link). 

I hope this helps,

James Alger  

[drathak]

Not quite what I mean.  The One Line symbol would have a single TAG1 vaue.  Say 61T51.  On the schematic I have three devices which should have TAGs more like 61T51-A, 61T51-B & 61T51-C.  As these are three physically separate relays, they each needs a TAG1 that is unique according to my understanding of how ACADE works.  Using link lines would require them all to have the same TAG value wouldn't it?

Likewise, on the panel wiring diagrams, there would three disctinct devices to be wired. 

Now if these were ALWAYS used in matching sets AND they always appeared right together in the schematic design, I could merge them into a single component, but then my BOM would only show one device instead of the three I really need called for.  I have done this for breaker CT's, but these are part of another major component (the breaker) and can be easily treated as a single device since we don't need these on our BOM.  (No CAT value used.)

Oh, and generally the one line would drive the TAG since for most items it will be shown there first in the design process.

[algerj]

Not necessarily, You could have them all different and show that they are related to each other.

Normally you create the link between a parent and a child device, but you can link 3 parents together.

You will have to unhide the tags though.

Regards,

James Alger 

[drathak]

Ok, but that doesn't link them to the single item on the one line, which is my biggest concern.  I want to be able to surf between the symbols.  Guess I could for the first one and that would put me close to the others, but it still isn't what I want. 

I want a lot... 

[algerj]

LOL…

Well I'll look into it and see if I can't find a better linking solution.

What version of ACADE are you running?

That way I can run my tests in the right version (I have 2011 -2014 installed).

Regards,

James Alger

SolidCAD

[drathak]

We are still on 2012 with the 2013 upgrade coming soon.  (IT is still working on the Vault Pro 2013 upgrade.)

Thanks for trying!

[algerj]

Hi Drathak,

Well, I tried alot of things but I could only get the first one to showup in surfer.

Maybe you could use the 3 -pole devices (or a parent - child relationship) and use the Multiple catalog lookup and simply choose 3 1-pole items on the parent?

 Other then that, I'm not sure that It can be done without a script / Lisp code.

Regards,

James Alger

[drathak]

I was considering that (Parent-Child) but wasn't sure how to get the count right.

Plus, if each child has the same pins, how would that work out come time to do wire annotation?

I'll keep playing with it.  Thanks for all your efforts!

[algerj]

You could try making them A,B and C Variations of the pins (just like you were going to do with the Tags).

Regards,

James Alger

[drathak]

True.

i have a contact at another company doing the same sort of work we do (power utility) and will see how they ahndled it.  I'll report back with whatever solutiuon I can find.

[drathak]

I forgot to come back and tell how I fixed this. On the the schematic symbols I used the WDTAGALT attribute to hold the TAG1 value of the one line symbol. The one line symbol shows all three schematic symbols when surfed, and each schematic symbol surfs back to the one line.