AutoCAD Electrical General Discussion

AutoCAD Electrical General Discussion

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*Expert Elite*
dougmcalexander
Posts: 3,222
Registered: ‎10-18-2003
Message 11 of 27 (1,036 Views)

Re: multi level terminals

03-10-2008 03:28 PM in reply to: driesterer
Hi Nathan,

Let me see if this will help. Think of the terminal symbols in the
schematic as representing the screws or compression clamps. Each terminal
symbol is one screw or compression clamp. So with my design method I don't
bother with exactly what each screw or compression clamp will be until I get
to the panel layout. It's okay if I know ahead of time, but I just wait
until panel layout to actually assign part numbers. I could assign as I go,
but if I assign BOM data to each terminal symbol in the schematic I may get
4 blocks in my BOM later when I really only need one that has 4 connections.
So I wait until I am in the Terminal Strip Editor to assign part numbers.
It is easier to create the associations to combine 4 screws or compressions
clamps into one block in TSE than doing it at schematic level. At schematic
level the terminals may be spread across many pages. In TSE I see all of
them at once. I can create the associations easily, assign the BOM data and
let the TSE go back and update the schematic symbols with the association
information and BOM data automatically. I did not use the TSE in its
earlier forms but the new version in AcadE 2008 really impressed me. I am
now a big fan of it.

Note: I do not use the internal jumper tool to connect the terminals
together to represent a bus. That is also a newer feature and I devised my
own way back in 1997 when I started using this program. I like to see
something visual on my drawings. So I created a special layer called
JUMPERBAR or just JUMPER. I insert a line between all of the terminal
symbols that will make up a bus and I assign this line to the JUMPER or
JUMPERBAR layer. AcadE automatically knows to ignore a layer with the word
JUMPER in its name from the wire list, so no need to worry about this
appearing on your wire list. So visually I see that there is a physical
connection from screw to screw or compression clamp to compression clamp.
The JUMPERBAR or JUMPER layer is still seen as a current carrying device by
AcadE so wire number/potential is passed through.

If you follow the instructions I posted earlier in this thread and do all of
the associations using Terminal Strip Editor, you can toggle wires from one
side to the other of a terminal and you can effectively move them from one
block to another by creating the association with the other block and
deleting the blank spare that is left behind. Since your blocks have only
one level but 4 connections, you will still need to treat them as having a
Level 1 and Level 2. I would consider the inner two connections as Level 1
and the outer two as Level 2. I modified the footprints of the blocks I use
most with a color code so I can see by the color of the wire numbers exactly
which Level they connection to. See the attached photo from my training
class project where we work with multi-level blocks. This screen shot shows
both triple-deck and double-deck blocks. The numbers represent the screw
lugs in this case and they are the same color as the wire number which
connects to them. This is done by forcing the colors of the attributes to
cyan, green, yellow, etc. in the footprint itself. TSE will automatically
insert the wire numbers according to how you positioned them in the first
screen of TSE, when you created the associations.



wrote in message news:5871598@discussion.autodesk.com...
Doug,
It looks like you know your stuff on how to edit terminal blocks. so here is
another question.
First off, I am still learning how to properly draw electrical schematics
and coming up with a "standard" at the same time.
What I am trying to do is show one circuit terminal blocks with four wire
connection points. This is a one level block, I think; correct me if I'm
wrong. Basically we are trying to create a "bus".
But all I can get to work is a separate wire into one termina
l block. An example, I have four ground wires to connect to terminal block,
on the schematic drawing I have a wire going to its own terminal block
symbol. I know want to associate all four blocks into one terminal block
with all four wires connecting to it.
Does that make sense?
What I can tell is that a "two" level block creates a two circuit terminal
block and I need a four point connection one circuit terminal block.
HELP!
Nathan
Doug McAlexander
Independent Consultant/Instructor/Mentor specializing in AutoCAD Electrical, ecscad, and promis-e implementation

Web site: www.ECADConsultant.com
Phone: (770) 841-8009

Please Accept as Solution if I helped you. Kudos are also much appreciated.
Active Contributor
ColmacCadGuy
Posts: 28
Registered: ‎03-10-2008
Message 12 of 27 (1,036 Views)

Re: multi level terminals

03-10-2008 03:45 PM in reply to: driesterer
Thanks Doug! I think I'm picking up what your putting down. Ultimately, it sounds like I cant force AutoCAD to use a one level four position block. But I can use a two level block, can I force two different wire "networks" to either side of the terminal block?
The attached picture is an example of what im trying to represent on the schematics. the four ground terminal blocks and ann grounded and "jumpered" via the din rail. The blocks labeled "1" are jumpered using a jumper bar so they are effectively the same network.
Is there any way I could get some of your drawings that show a schematic layout and the terminal block footprint?That way I could see how you getting AutoCAD to combine the blocks into multiple levels with different networks.
Thank you for your help!
*Expert Elite*
dougmcalexander
Posts: 3,222
Registered: ‎10-18-2003
Message 13 of 27 (1,036 Views)

Re: multi level terminals

03-10-2008 07:32 PM in reply to: driesterer
What you need to do is assign a different number or letter to each
compression clamp (i.e. 1A, 1B, 1C, 1D or 1, 2, 3, 4) and use the color
coded system to show the wire numbers that attach to each, like in the
example I posted previously. It doesn't matter that your block has 4
connections on one level. The point of the levels in AcadE is that
feed-through blocks elevate each level so they can pass the signal from one
side to the other and both sides would be 1A or 1B, etc. Your block must be
treated as a 4 level block internally jumpered and with no feed-through,
meaning one wire for 1A, one wire for 1B, etc.

The important thing is to denote each terminal symbol in your schematic with
a unique identification like 1A, 1B, etc. When you get to TSE click the
Number column to sort by terminal designator. Then use the Toggle
Destination function to move wires left or right to split them up to show
two wire numbers per side the top two on the right-hand side and the bottom
two on the left-hand side. All you are really doing with this feature is
letting AcadE know on which side of the terminal footprint you want the wire
number info to appear.

Attached is a sample drawing I created with a Wago 4-point front-wiring
ground block. The footprint is the one on the Panel\Wago library folder. I
modified it to include the color-coding system I use to differentiate which
wire connects to which clamp. I will send two more e-mails with
attachments. The first will be the modified block. The second will be a
screenshot with an explanation of how I configured things in the TSE.

wrote in message news:5871884@discussion.autodesk.com...
Thanks Doug! I think I'm picking up what your putting down. Ultimately, it
sounds like I cant force AutoCAD to use a one level four position block. But
I can use a two level block, can I force two different wire "networks" to
either side of the terminal block?
The attached picture is an example of what im trying to represent on the
schematics. the four ground terminal blocks and ann grounded and "jumpered"
via the din rail. The blocks labeled "1" are jumpered using a jumper bar so
they
are effectively the same network.
Is there any way I could get some of your drawings that show a schematic
layout and the terminal block footprint?That way I could see how you getting
AutoCAD to combine the blocks into multiple levels with different networks.
Thank you for your help!
Doug McAlexander
Independent Consultant/Instructor/Mentor specializing in AutoCAD Electrical, ecscad, and promis-e implementation

Web site: www.ECADConsultant.com
Phone: (770) 841-8009

Please Accept as Solution if I helped you. Kudos are also much appreciated.
*Expert Elite*
dougmcalexander
Posts: 3,222
Registered: ‎10-18-2003
Message 14 of 27 (1,036 Views)

Re: multi level terminals

03-10-2008 07:39 PM in reply to: driesterer
Attached is the modified Wago ground block I used in the example. You can
place this in your C:\Program Files\Autodesk\Acade
2008\Libs\panel\WAGO\TRMS-TERMINAL BLOCKS folder. Save the original block
first as a backup.


wrote in message news:5871993@discussion.autodesk.com...
What you need to do is assign a different number or letter to each
compression clamp (i.e. 1A, 1B, 1C, 1D or 1, 2, 3, 4) and use the color
coded system to show the wire numbers that attach to each, like in the
example I posted previously. It doesn't matter that your block has 4
connections on one level. The point of the levels in AcadE is that
feed-through blocks elevate each level so they can pass the signal from one
side to the other and both sides would be 1A or 1B, etc.
Your block must be
treated as a 4 level block internally jumpered and with no feed-through,
meaning one wire for 1A, one wire for 1B, etc.

The important thing is to denote each terminal symbol in your schematic with
a unique identification like 1A, 1B, etc. When you get to TSE click the
Number column to sort by terminal designator. Then use the Toggle
Destination function to move wires left or right to split them up to show
two wire numbers per side the top two on the
right-hand side and the bottom
two on the left-hand side. All you are really doing with this feature is
letting AcadE know on which side of the terminal footprint you want the wire
number info to appear.

Attached is a sample drawing I created with a Wago 4-point front-wiring
ground block. The footprint is the one on the Panel\Wago library folder. I
modified it to include the color-coding system I use to differentiate which
wire connects to which clamp. I will
send two more e-mails with
attachments. The first will be the modified block. The second will be a
screenshot with an explanation of how I configured things in the TSE.

wrote in message news:5871884@discussion.autodesk.com...
Thanks Doug! I think I'm picking up what your putting down. Ultimately, it
sounds like I cant force AutoCAD to use a one level four position block. But
I can use a two level block, can I force two different wire "networks" to
eith
er side of the terminal block?
The attached picture is an example of what im trying to represent on the
schematics. the four ground terminal blocks and ann grounded and "jumpered"
via the din rail. The blocks labeled "1" are jumpered using a jumper bar so
they
are effectively the same network.
Is there any way I could get some of your drawings that show a schematic
layout and the terminal block footprint?That way I could see how you getting
AutoCAD to combine the blocks int
o multiple levels with different networks.
Thank you for your help!
Doug McAlexander
Independent Consultant/Instructor/Mentor specializing in AutoCAD Electrical, ecscad, and promis-e implementation

Web site: www.ECADConsultant.com
Phone: (770) 841-8009

Please Accept as Solution if I helped you. Kudos are also much appreciated.
*Expert Elite*
dougmcalexander
Posts: 3,222
Registered: ‎10-18-2003
Message 15 of 27 (1,036 Views)

Re: multi level terminals

03-10-2008 07:41 PM in reply to: driesterer
Attached is a screen shot that explains the setup of the 4-point "4-level"
block in TSE.


wrote in message news:5871995@discussion.autodesk.com...
Attached is the modified Wago ground block I used in the example. You can
place this in your C:\Program Files\Autodesk\Acade
2008\Libs\panel\WAGO\TRMS-TERMINAL BLOCKS folder. Save the original block
first as a backup.


wrote in message news:5871993@discussion.autodesk.com...
What you need to do is assign a different number or letter to each
compression clamp (i.e. 1A, 1B, 1C, 1D or 1, 2, 3, 4) and use the color
coded system to show the wire numbers that attach
to each, like in the
example I posted previously. It doesn't matter that your block has 4
connections on one level. The point of the levels in AcadE is that
feed-through blocks elevate each level so they can pass the signal from one
side to the other and both sides would be 1A or 1B, etc.
Your block must be
treated as a 4 level block internally jumpered and with no feed-through,
meaning one wire for 1A, one wire for 1B, etc.

The important thing is to denote each terminal symbol in your schema
tic with
a unique identification like 1A, 1B, etc. When you get to TSE click the
Number column to sort by terminal designator. Then use the Toggle
Destination function to move wires left or right to split them up to show
two wire numbers per side the top two on the
right-hand side and the bottom
two on the left-hand side. All you are really doing with this feature is
letting AcadE know on which side of the terminal footprint you want the wire
number info to appear.

Attached is a sampl
e drawing I created with a Wago 4-point front-wiring
ground block. The footprint is the one on the Panel\Wago library folder. I
modified it to include the color-coding system I use to differentiate which
wire connects to which clamp. I will
send two more e-mails with
attachments. The first will be the modified block. The second will be a
screenshot with an explanation of how I configured things in the TSE.

wrote in message news:5871884@discussion.autodesk.com...
Thanks Do
ug! I think I'm picking up what your putting down. Ultimately, it
sounds like I cant force AutoCAD to use a one level four position block. But
I can use a two level block, can I force two different wire "networks" to
eith
er side of the terminal block?
The attached picture is an example of what im trying to represent on the
schematics. the four ground terminal blocks and ann grounded and "jumpered"
via the din rail. The blocks labeled "1" are jumpered using a jumper bar so
they
are effectively
the same network.
Is there any way I could get some of your drawings that show a schematic
layout and the terminal block footprint?That way I could see how you getting
AutoCAD to combine the blocks int
o multiple levels with different networks.
Thank you for your help!
Doug McAlexander
Independent Consultant/Instructor/Mentor specializing in AutoCAD Electrical, ecscad, and promis-e implementation

Web site: www.ECADConsultant.com
Phone: (770) 841-8009

Please Accept as Solution if I helped you. Kudos are also much appreciated.
*Expert Elite*
dougmcalexander
Posts: 3,222
Registered: ‎10-18-2003
Message 16 of 27 (1,036 Views)

Re: multi level terminals

03-10-2008 07:46 PM in reply to: driesterer
Good grief I attached the wring drawing. I'm trying to do too many things
at once. Here is the one I intended.

wrote in message news:5871993@discussion.autodesk.com...
What you need to do is assign a different number or letter to each
compression clamp (i.e. 1A, 1B, 1C, 1D or 1, 2, 3, 4) and use the color
coded system to show the wire numbers that attach to each, like in the
example I posted previously. It doesn't matter that your block has 4
connections on one level. The point of the levels in AcadE is that
feed-through blocks elevate each level so they can pass the signal from one
side to the other and both sides would be 1A or 1B, etc.
Your block must be
treated as a 4 level block internally jumpered and with no feed-through,
meaning one wire for 1A, one wire for 1B, etc.

The important thing is to denote each terminal symbol in your schematic with
a unique identification like 1A, 1B, etc. When you get to TSE click the
Number column to sort by terminal designator. Then use the Toggle
Destination function to move wires left or right to split them up to show
two wire numbers per side the top two on the
right-hand side and the bottom
two on the left-hand side. All you are really doing with this feature is
letting AcadE know on which side of the terminal footprint you want the wire
number info to appear.

Attached is a sample drawing I created with a Wago 4-point front-wiring
ground block. The footprint is the one on the Panel\Wago library folder. I
modified it to include the color-coding system I use to differentiate which
wire connects to which clamp. I will
send two more e-mails with
attachments. The first will be the modified block. The second will be a
screenshot with an explanation of how I configured things in the TSE.

wrote in message news:5871884@discussion.autodesk.com...
Thanks Doug! I think I'm picking up what your putting down. Ultimately, it
sounds like I cant force AutoCAD to use a one level four position block. But
I can use a two level block, can I force two different wire "networks" to
eith
er side of the terminal block?
The attached picture is an example of what im trying to represent on the
schematics. the four ground terminal blocks and ann grounded and "jumpered"
via the din rail. The blocks labeled "1" are jumpered using a jumper bar so
they
are effectively the same network.
Is there any way I could get some of your drawings that show a schematic
layout and the terminal block footprint?That way I could see how you getting
AutoCAD to combine the blocks int
o multiple levels with different networks.
Thank you for your help!
Doug McAlexander
Independent Consultant/Instructor/Mentor specializing in AutoCAD Electrical, ecscad, and promis-e implementation

Web site: www.ECADConsultant.com
Phone: (770) 841-8009

Please Accept as Solution if I helped you. Kudos are also much appreciated.
Active Contributor
ColmacCadGuy
Posts: 28
Registered: ‎03-10-2008
Message 17 of 27 (1,036 Views)

Re: multi level terminals

03-11-2008 09:03 AM in reply to: driesterer
Thanks Doug. Your a HUGE help!
Active Contributor
ColmacCadGuy
Posts: 28
Registered: ‎03-10-2008
Message 18 of 27 (1,036 Views)

Re: multi level terminals

03-12-2008 01:23 PM in reply to: driesterer
Doug,
How do I get a copy of the ACADE book you wrote?
*Expert Elite*
dougmcalexander
Posts: 3,222
Registered: ‎10-18-2003
Message 19 of 27 (1,036 Views)

Re: multi level terminals

03-12-2008 08:30 PM in reply to: driesterer
It isn't quite finished yet. Send me an e-mail direct and I will get you on
the list to be notified. I was to finish it last year but got so busy
traveling and teaching classes onsite that I got behind. But I am working
on the final chapters now.

ECADConsultant@aol.com

wrote in message news:5874079@discussion.autodesk.com...
Doug,
How do I get a copy of the ACADE book you wrote?
Doug McAlexander
Independent Consultant/Instructor/Mentor specializing in AutoCAD Electrical, ecscad, and promis-e implementation

Web site: www.ECADConsultant.com
Phone: (770) 841-8009

Please Accept as Solution if I helped you. Kudos are also much appreciated.
Contributor
driesterer
Posts: 11
Registered: ‎06-14-2006
Message 20 of 27 (1,036 Views)

Re: multi level terminals

03-19-2008 07:11 AM in reply to: driesterer
Hi Doug,
Quick question on terminals. When I select and insert a terminal, how do I get it to keep the same wire # on both sides of the term?
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