Jumpers in AcadE09 TSE

[Anonymous]

Just wondered if jumpers can be shown when inserting a Graphical Terminal Strip in AcadE 2009, or is it the same as 2008.
Cheers
Pete B.

[dougmcalexander]

Hi Brad,

I shot some video of the wire sequencing I applied to your drawing number 5.
I checked the wire list to confirm the routing and then I inserted terminal
block A:1 using the TSE. All seemed to work fine. I will send an e-mail to
you with the video attached. I can't upload the video to the discussion
group.

Regards,

Doug


"Brad Coleman" wrote in message
news:5928150@discussion.autodesk.com...
Here you go Doug. You will see what I mean as you look through the dwgs.
To get each dwg I did a save as, changed the location info and then added
it to the project before doing the actions noted on the dwg.

I have had the same problems when using the angled cable joints (we use them
on critical wiring loops only). The problem only appears when you edit an
existing
terminal strip layout.

Regards Brad

wrote in message news:5927210@discussion.autodesk.com...
Can one
of you post a drawing that shows how you are designating the
terminals in the schematic. I have some fairly complex sequences in my
drawings and I use the angled wire symbols. Everything is working perfectly
for me. I have attached a complex wire network from one of my training
projects. I did not assign specific wire sequences using the Edit Wire
Sequence tool because the angled wire symbols take care of that, as of
version 2008. This schematic translates perfectly
into TSE.

"Brad Col
eman" wrote in message
news:5923024@discussion.autodesk.com...
I'm talking about the way the TSE treats the wire sequences. It occurs with
both the angled and dot cable joints. The TSE has problems with adding
extraneous data to the terminals which cause problems with wires being
designated 'Direct To Terminal' instead of staying in the sequence. Then
when
doing a wire sequence report, the faulty sequence shows up.

Regards Brad


ander> wrote in message
news:5920702@discussion.autodesk.com...
Brad I'm just curious whether you are referring to defining wire sequences
with the edit wire sequence tool or using angled wires, which define the
sequence for you. There are a few situations where the angled wire symbols,
when there are many on the same network with different orientations, that
the wire sequencing can get slightly off, but I never had any issues when
using the edit wire sequence function in 2008 SP1. Otherwise ar
e you
referring only
to the wire destination assignments in TSE where you actually
move wires from one side to the other after you have defined the sequence in
the schematic?

"Brad Coleman" wrote in message
news:5920636@discussion.autodesk.com...
Just note that the TSE has problems when dealing with complex wire network

[Anonymous]

As I have stated, the sequencing itself does not change on the wires. It
changes at the terminal strip only.
The terminal strip generally comes in OK the first time you insert it, but
if you edit the strip a second time,
it makes wires direct to terminal instead of following the sequence. Pat
Murnen has verified this fault, and
has verified it is with the TSE not with the wire sequencing. You obviously
can't read notes properly as
I stated this in the dwgs. Plus the dwgs I posted the other day show that
the wire sequence does not change
when the fault appears.

Regards Brad

wrote in message news:5928517@discussion.autodesk.com...
Hi Brad,

I shot some video of the wire sequencing I applied to your drawing number 5.
I checked the wire list to confirm the routing and then I inserted terminal
block A:1 using the TSE. All seemed to work fine. I will send an e-mail to
you with the video attached. I can't upload the video to the discussion
group.

Regards,

Doug


"Brad Coleman" wrote in message
news:5928150@discussion.autodesk.com...
Here you go Doug. You will see what I mean as you look through the dwgs.
To get each dwg I did a save as, changed the location info and then added
it to the project before doing the actions noted on the dwg.

I have had the same problems when using the angled cable joints (we use them
on critical wiring loops only). The problem only appears when you edit an
existing
terminal strip layout.

Regards Brad

wrote in message news:5927210@discussion.autodesk.com...
Can one
of you post a drawing that shows how you are designating the
terminals in the schematic. I have some fairly complex sequences in my
drawings and I use the angled wire symbols. Everything is working perfectly
for me. I have attached a complex wire network from one of my training
projects. I did not assign specific wire sequences using the Edit Wire
Sequence tool because the angled wire symbols take care of that, as of
version 2008. This schematic translates perfectly
into TSE.

"Brad Col
eman" wrote in message
news:5923024@discussion.autodesk.com...
I'm talking about the way the TSE treats the wire sequences. It occurs with
both the angled and dot cable joints. The TSE has problems with adding
extraneous data to the terminals which cause problems with wires being
designated 'Direct To Terminal' instead of staying in the sequence. Then
when
doing a wire sequence report, the faulty sequence shows up.

Regards Brad


ander> wrote in message
news:5920702@discussion.autodesk.com...
Brad I'm just curious whether you are referring to defining wire sequences
with the edit wire sequence tool or using angled wires, which define the
sequence for you. There are a few situations where the angled wire symbols,
when there are many on the same network with different orientations, that
the wire sequencing can get slightly off, but I never had any issues when
using the edit wire sequence function in 2008 SP1. Otherwise ar
e you
referring only
to the wire destination assignments in TSE where you actually
move wires from one side to the other after you have defined the sequence in
the schematic?

"Brad Coleman" wrote in message
news:5920636@discussion.autodesk.com...
Just note that the TSE has problems when dealing with complex wire network

[dougmcalexander]

Brad, I read just fine. I'm just trying to help. I see that the TSE does
not match the wire sequence definition I saw in the drawing, which was from
TMP5-1 to TMP5-2 to Terminal A:1 and from Terminal A:1 to TMP5-3, but that
sequence seems odd to me anyway. The way the circuit is drafted looks to me
as though a wire must run from terminal block A:1 to TMP5-1 and from
TMP5-1:4 to TMP5-2:6, and from TMP5-2:6 to TMP5-3:4. If I define the wire
sequence to match the drafting the TSE interprets it perfectly. If I use
angled wire symbols instead of dots and I orient them to represent a daisy
chain, it also works perfectly.

I see that L3 and L2 exist on one side of the terminal. But this is not a
valid circuit. I know this is just an example, but I doubt TSE is
programmed to interpret this situation, thus the confusion in the wire
numbering. A latching network I could understand, but this circuit creates
a dead short when the relay engages. Plus the terminal block, while
generating a new wire number since it is a type HT1, still does not prevent
the short circuit between the two sides of the coil when the relay
engages.There is so much for TSE to try to interpret here and it is outside
normal design practices. When I make the wire sequence match the way it is
drafted everything is fine. So if I am not understanding your issue, it is
because I am not understanding what your circuit is supposed to represent.
I think if you complete the circuit and assign wire sequencing that matches
your drafting, you may get a better result.

"Brad Coleman" wrote in message
news:5929082@discussion.autodesk.com...
As I have stated, the sequencing itself does not change on the wires. It
changes at the terminal strip only.
The terminal strip generally comes in OK the first time you insert it, but
if you edit the strip a second time,
it makes wires direct to terminal instead of following the sequence. Pat
Murnen has verified this fault, and
has verified it is with the TSE not with the wire sequencing. You obviously
can't read notes properly as
I stated this in the dwgs. Plus the dwgs I posted the other day show that
the wire sequence does not change
when the fault appears.

Regards Brad

wrote in message news:5928517@discussion.autodesk.com...
Hi Brad,

I shot some video of the wire sequencing I applied to your drawing number 5.
I checked the wire list to confirm the routing and then I inserted terminal
block A:1 using the TSE. All seemed to work fine. I will send an e-mail to
you with the video attached. I can't upload the video to the discussion
group.

Regards,

Doug


"Brad Coleman" wrote in message
news:5928150@discussion.autodesk.com...
Here you go Doug. You will see what I mean as you look through the dwgs.
To get each dwg I did a save as, changed the location info and then added
it to the project before doing the actions noted on the dwg.

I have had the same problems when using the angled cable joints (we use them
on critical wiring loops only). The problem only appears when you edit an
existing
terminal strip layout.

Regards Brad

wrote in message news:5927210@discussion.autodesk.com...
Can one
of you post a drawing that shows how you are designating the
terminals in the schematic. I have some fairly complex sequences in my
drawings and I use the angled wire symbols. Everything is working perfectly
for me. I have attached a complex wire network from one of my training
projects. I did not assign specific wire sequences using the Edit Wire
Sequence tool because the angled wire symbols take care of that, as of
version 2008. This schematic translates perfectly
into TSE.

"Brad Col
eman" wrote in message
news:5923024@discussion.autodesk.com...
I'm talking about the way the TSE treats the wire sequences. It occurs with
both the angled and dot cable joints. The TSE has problems with adding
extraneous data to the terminals which cause problems with wires being
designated 'Direct To Terminal' instead of staying in the sequence. Then
when
doing a wire sequence report, the faulty sequence shows up.

Regards Brad


ander> wrote in message
news:5920702@discussion.autodesk.com...
Brad I'm just curious whether you are referring to defining wire sequences
with the edit wire sequence tool or using angled wires, which define the
sequence for you. There are a few situations where the angled wire symbols,
when there are many on the same network with different orientations, that
the wire sequencing can get slightly off, but I never had any issues when
using the edit wire sequence function in 2008 SP1. Otherwise ar
e you
referring only
to the wire destination assignments in TSE where you actually
move wires from one side to the other after you have defined the sequence in
the schematic?

"Brad Coleman" wrote in message
news:5920636@discussion.autodesk.com...
Just note that the TSE has problems when dealing with complex wire network

[Anonymous]

It's a quick and simple circuit that is only to show the problems with the
TSE. It is not designed to do anything else. Pat asked for the simplest
circuit that showed the problem, that is what this is.
It is not designed to work in the real world and therefore it does not
matter if there is a short or not in the circuit.

The TSE not matching the defined sequence is the problem that the TSE has
and is what I was trying to show.

Regards

wrote in message news:5929036@discussion.autodesk.com...
Brad, I read just fine. I'm just trying to help. I see that the TSE does
not match the wire sequence definition I saw in the drawing, which was from
TMP5-1 to TMP5-2 to Terminal A:1 and from Terminal A:1 to TMP5-3, but that
sequence seems odd to me anyway. The way the circuit is drafted looks to me
as though a wire must run from terminal block A:1 to TMP5-1 and from
TMP5-1:4 to TMP5-2:6, and from TMP5-2:6 to TMP5-3:4. If I define the wire
sequence to match the drafting the TSE interprets it perfectly. If I use
angled wire symbols instead of dots and I orient them to represent a daisy
chain, it also works perfectly.

I see that L3 and L2 exist on one side of the terminal. But this is not a
valid circuit. I know this is just an example, but I doubt TSE is
programmed to interpret this situation, thus the confusion in the wire
numbering. A latching network I could understand, but this circuit creates
a dead short when the relay engages. Plus the terminal block, while
generating a new wire number since it is a type HT1, still does not prevent
the short circuit between the two sides of the coil when the relay
engages.There is so much for TSE to try to interpret here and it is outside
normal design practices. When I make the wire sequence match the way it is
drafted everything is fine. So if I am not understanding your issue, it is
because I am not understanding what your circuit is supposed to represent.
I think if you complete the circuit and assign wire sequencing that matches
your drafting, you may get a better result.

"Brad Coleman" wrote in message
news:5929082@discussion.autodesk.com...
As I have stated, the sequencing itself does not change on the wires. It
changes at the terminal strip only.
The terminal strip generally comes in OK the first time you insert it, but
if you edit the strip a second time,
it makes wires direct to terminal instead of following the sequence. Pat
Murnen has verified this fault, and
has verified it is with the TSE not with the wire sequencing. You obviously
can't read notes properly as
I stated this in the dwgs. Plus the dwgs I posted the other day show that
the wire sequence does not change
when the fault appears.

Regards Brad

wrote in message news:5928517@discussion.autodesk.com...
Hi Brad,

I shot some video of the wire sequencing I applied to your drawing number 5.
I checked the wire list to confirm the routing and then I inserted terminal
block A:1 using the TSE. All seemed to work fine. I will send an e-mail to
you with the video attached. I can't upload the video to the discussion
group.

Regards,

Doug


"Brad Coleman" wrote in message
news:5928150@discussion.autodesk.com...
Here you go Doug. You will see what I mean as you look through the dwgs.
To get each dwg I did a save as, changed the location info and then added
it to the project before doing the actions noted on the dwg.

I have had the same problems when using the angled cable joints (we use them
on critical wiring loops only). The problem only appears when you edit an
existing
terminal strip layout.

Regards Brad

wrote in message news:5927210@discussion.autodesk.com...
Can one
of you post a drawing that shows how you are designating the
terminals in the schematic. I have some fairly complex sequences in my
drawings and I use the angled wire symbols. Everything is working perfectly
for me. I have attached a complex wire network from one of my training
projects. I did not assign specific wire sequences using the Edit Wire
Sequence tool because the angled wire symbols take care of that, as of
version 2008. This schematic translates perfectly
into TSE.

"Brad Col
eman" wrote in message
news:5923024@discussion.autodesk.com...
I'm talking about the way the TSE treats the wire sequences. It occurs with
both the angled and dot cable joints. The TSE has problems with adding
extraneous data to the terminals which cause problems with wires being
designated 'Direct To Terminal' instead of staying in the sequence. Then
when
doing a wire sequence report, the faulty sequence shows up.

Regards Brad


ander> wrote in message
news:5920702@discussion.autodesk.com...
Brad I'm just curious whether you are referring to defining wire sequences
with the edit wire sequence tool or using angled wires, which define the
sequence for you. There are a few situations where the angled wire symbols,
when there are many on the same network with different orientations, that
the wire sequencing can get slightly off, but I never had any issues when
using the edit wire sequence function in 2008 SP1. Otherwise ar
e you
referring only
to the wire destination assignments in TSE where you actually
move wires from one side to the other after you have defined the sequence in
the schematic?

"Brad Coleman" wrote in message
news:5920636@discussion.autodesk.com...
Just note that the TSE has problems when dealing with complex wire network

[Anonymous]

Brad,

I just want to make clear that I haven't verified or confirmed any issue
yet. Previously we had started to do some troubleshooting and we removed
some xdata placed by TSE to see if it affected what we were seeing. This was
simply a troubleshooting step in a complicated issue.

This is not my area of expertise and I have passed this on to someone else
here. My reason for posting today is that I don't want anyone else reading
these posts to jump to any conclusions about TSE and its capabilities. No
issue has been confirmed.

Pat Murnen


"Brad Coleman" wrote in message
news:5929082@discussion.autodesk.com...
As I have stated, the sequencing itself does not change on the wires. It
changes at the terminal strip only.
The terminal strip generally comes in OK the first time you insert it, but
if you edit the strip a second time,
it makes wires direct to terminal instead of following the sequence. Pat
Murnen has verified this fault, and
has verified it is with the TSE not with the wire sequencing. You obviously
can't read notes properly as
I stated this in the dwgs. Plus the dwgs I posted the other day show that
the wire sequence does not change
when the fault appears.

Regards Brad

wrote in message news:5928517@discussion.autodesk.com...
Hi Brad,

I shot some video of the wire sequencing I applied to your drawing number 5.
I checked the wire list to confirm the routing and then I inserted terminal
block A:1 using the TSE. All seemed to work fine. I will send an e-mail to
you with the video attached. I can't upload the video to the discussion
group.

Regards,

Doug


"Brad Coleman" wrote in message
news:5928150@discussion.autodesk.com...
Here you go Doug. You will see what I mean as you look through the dwgs.
To get each dwg I did a save as, changed the location info and then added
it to the project before doing the actions noted on the dwg.

I have had the same problems when using the angled cable joints (we use them
on critical wiring loops only). The problem only appears when you edit an
existing
terminal strip layout.

Regards Brad

wrote in message news:5927210@discussion.autodesk.com...
Can one
of you post a drawing that shows how you are designating the
terminals in the schematic. I have some fairly complex sequences in my
drawings and I use the angled wire symbols. Everything is working perfectly
for me. I have attached a complex wire network from one of my training
projects. I did not assign specific wire sequences using the Edit Wire
Sequence tool because the angled wire symbols take care of that, as of
version 2008. This schematic translates perfectly
into TSE.

"Brad Col
eman" wrote in message
news:5923024@discussion.autodesk.com...
I'm talking about the way the TSE treats the wire sequences. It occurs with
both the angled and dot cable joints. The TSE has problems with adding
extraneous data to the terminals which cause problems with wires being
designated 'Direct To Terminal' instead of staying in the sequence. Then
when
doing a wire sequence report, the faulty sequence shows up.

Regards Brad


ander> wrote in message
news:5920702@discussion.autodesk.com...
Brad I'm just curious whether you are referring to defining wire sequences
with the edit wire sequence tool or using angled wires, which define the
sequence for you. There are a few situations where the angled wire symbols,
when there are many on the same network with different orientations, that
the wire sequencing can get slightly off, but I never had any issues when
using the edit wire sequence function in 2008 SP1. Otherwise ar
e you
referring only
to the wire destination assignments in TSE where you actually
move wires from one side to the other after you have defined the sequence in
the schematic?

"Brad Coleman" wrote in message
news:5920636@discussion.autodesk.com...
Just note that the TSE has problems when dealing with complex wire network

[Anonymous]

No disrespect here guys, but a lot of the posts in this thread are nothing to do with 'jumpers in TSE'. A new thread might have been the way to go!