AutoCAD Electrical General Discussion

AutoCAD Electrical General Discussion

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*Expert Elite*
testsubject
Posts: 1,103
Registered: ‎03-09-2004
Message 1 of 12 (298 Views)

I am having trouble with the JUMPER layer

298 Views, 11 Replies
05-29-2008 02:54 PM
After spending almost an hour searching I need to ask if this has been added yet...

I want to be able to insert a wire that WILL NOT trigger a wire number during wire number update. I asked for this over 3 years ago. I thought that adding a JUMPER layer and making it a wire layer would do this but it still adds a wire number to the line during the update. From what I can tell, the JUMPER layer is only ignored during Wire To/From Reports.

Has any advances been made in this front yet??? I am trying to add a 25 pin cable that has two molded ends. This will not need wire numbers for the individual conductors.

Thanks,

Robert Hanrahan
Bob Hanrahan
Ace User since 1998
*Expert Elite*
testsubject
Posts: 1,103
Registered: ‎03-09-2004
Message 2 of 12 (298 Views)

Re: I am having trouble with the JUMPER layer

05-29-2008 05:10 PM in reply to: testsubject
I forgot to add that I am using AE 2009
Bob Hanrahan
Ace User since 1998
*Expert Elite*
dougmcalexander
Posts: 3,222
Registered: ‎10-18-2003
Message 3 of 12 (298 Views)

Re: I am having trouble with the JUMPER layer

05-29-2008 06:42 PM in reply to: testsubject
You just assign the wires to a non-wire layer, or a layer that is not listed
in the wire type list.

wrote in message news:5944090@discussion.autodesk.com...
I forgot to add that I am using AE 2009
Doug McAlexander
Independent Consultant/Instructor/Mentor specializing in AutoCAD Electrical, ecscad, and promis-e implementation

Web site: www.ECADConsultant.com
Phone: (770) 841-8009

Please Accept as Solution if I helped you. Kudos are also much appreciated.
*Expert Elite*
testsubject
Posts: 1,103
Registered: ‎03-09-2004
Message 4 of 12 (298 Views)

Re: I am having trouble with the JUMPER layer

05-29-2008 08:06 PM in reply to: testsubject
Doug,

I always knew I could do that but the thing that I do not like about it is that "SCOOT" and "DELETE" (for example) do not work properly with this technique. I was hoping for a resolution to this issue. I guess I will just have to live with it.

Thanks,

Bob
Bob Hanrahan
Ace User since 1998
*Expert Elite*
dougmcalexander
Posts: 3,222
Registered: ‎10-18-2003
Message 5 of 12 (298 Views)

Re: I am having trouble with the JUMPER layer

05-29-2008 09:37 PM in reply to: testsubject
Can you scoot everything first and then move the wires to a non-wire layer?
Or just insert a fixed wire number that matches your preference and hide it
using the attribute hide?

I have been using/teaching the program since 1997 and I have never had
anyone request not to wire number. In fact what originally draws most
customers to programs like this is the wire numbering, BOM, and wire list.
That's what moved me off of AutoCAD 10 and onto a German-made competitor
back in 1991. The German program was DOS or Unix and could generate BOM and
wire list. It had a steep learning curve but was well worth it when we
could just click a button or two and get a BOM and wire list. That saved a
plethora of hours and human error.

It seems to me that what you are trying to do is use AcadE to document a
cable assembly instead of a control system. But even though the program
isn't really designed to create cable assembly drawings, I think you can do
it. I would suggest doing everything like normal. Assign the MFG and CAT
info to the connectors. Actually put the wires on appropriate wire layers.
But assign the wire numbers manually, and make them all read as something
like TBA or NA, assuming that they could vary from system to system. But
when you use the wire number editor to assign TBA or NA it automatically
marks them as fixed (don't uncheck the fixed box). You can then window hide
all wire numbers using the window hide attribute feature. You can then
generate a BOM and wire list and place on the drawing. That's how one of my
customers does it now.

I don't know if this will work for your situation, but it may be beyond the
scope of AcadE to expect it to not try to wire number, since it is designed
to document control systems.

Hint: If you do the drawing fresh and never run the wire number command,
AcadE doesn't usually insert wire numbers. It usually only inserts them
after you have run the wire number routine at least once.

wrote in message news:5944165@discussion.autodesk.com...
Doug,

I always knew I could do that but the thing that I do not like about it is
that "SCOOT" and "DELETE" (for example) do not work properly with this
technique. I was hoping for a resolution to this issue. I guess I will just
have to live with it.

Thanks,

Bob
Doug McAlexander
Independent Consultant/Instructor/Mentor specializing in AutoCAD Electrical, ecscad, and promis-e implementation

Web site: www.ECADConsultant.com
Phone: (770) 841-8009

Please Accept as Solution if I helped you. Kudos are also much appreciated.
*Expert Elite*
testsubject
Posts: 1,103
Registered: ‎03-09-2004
Message 6 of 12 (298 Views)

Re: I am having trouble with the JUMPER layer

05-30-2008 03:44 AM in reply to: testsubject
Like you, I have been using AE for many years. It is a cable assembly that I am working on. If you do a search, you will find that I requested this about 4 years ago. I suppose that the best work around is to change the wire number to fixed and then hide it. I was just hoping that something had been done in the past year or so since I took 1.5 years off from AE to work in another field.

Thanks,

Bob
Bob Hanrahan
Ace User since 1998
*Expert Elite*
dougmcalexander
Posts: 3,222
Registered: ‎10-18-2003
Message 7 of 12 (298 Views)

Re: I am having trouble with the JUMPER layer

05-30-2008 06:57 AM in reply to: testsubject
I guess there aren't many others requesting that functionality. Autodesk
does listen. Some of my requests have made it in but others have not. Bear
in mind the overhead involved for Autodesk to introduce a new feature, make
sure it doesn't adversely affect other features (called regression in their
world), debug it, document it in the menu and help system in every language,
and get it to market. We must also realize that they release a new version
every 12 months so it needs to have enough interest to merit the development
resources to work on it instead of other requests, which may have more
requests. It also becomes a new feature that all users need to understand
whether they need it or not, because it will appear in their menu somewhere.
When I started with the program the training was 2 days. It is now 4 days
just to cover fundamentals.

I began asking for the ability to assign item numbers to the Multiple
Catalog items in 1999. It sounds simple enough but it had far reaching
implications as far as the code. It would require lots of resources. And
now 9 years later, in version 2009 we have it. But this came about due to
the fact that almost everywhere I taught, I was getting requests from
customers who wanted to balloon every piece part, not every assembly. AcadE
2009 now has improved item number tracking and he ability to put a separate
balloon on a relay, its base, and retainer clips; also a fuse and its fuse
holder, etc. I took enough people asking and lots of resources to
accomplish this without breaking other functions in AcadE that have worked
fine.

I feel your pain though. It's like the folks who want to use AcadE to
document house wiring. I have a customer wanting to that. Can it? Yes,
but that is stretching it into something that its core infrastructure is not
designed for. It was created to be a control system design tool with those
functions as its priority. We can still draft with it and use it as regular
AutoCAD when we do not need to design a control system.

wrote in message news:5944298@discussion.autodesk.com...
Like you, I have been using AE for many years. It is a cable assembly that I
am working on. If you do a search, you will find that I requested this about
4 years ago. I suppose that the best work around is to change the wire
number to fixed and then hide it. I was just hoping that something had been
done in the past year or so since I took 1.5 years off from AE to work in
another field.

Thanks,

Bob
Doug McAlexander
Independent Consultant/Instructor/Mentor specializing in AutoCAD Electrical, ecscad, and promis-e implementation

Web site: www.ECADConsultant.com
Phone: (770) 841-8009

Please Accept as Solution if I helped you. Kudos are also much appreciated.
Distinguished Contributor
iomaxx
Posts: 178
Registered: ‎03-03-2006
Message 8 of 12 (298 Views)

Re: I am having trouble with the JUMPER layer

04-14-2010 07:10 AM in reply to: testsubject
i just wanted to echo that someone else also wants this functionality, so count the total to 2, haha.

one use for us is for e-stop strings, because we add in jumpers between different terminal numbers for customers to add in extra e-stops into the master e-stop string. if we connect them with normal wires, AE will want both terminals labeled the same (which makes sense to AE), but we want them labeled differently, so that customers can add the extra e-stop without having to renumber the entire e-stop string or add the extra e-stop with a wire number that is out of place.

another instance we use jumpers for is two sets of 120VAC power (an 'instrument power' and a 'control power'). When we ship the equipment, they are both derived from a single transformer, but we want to differeniate them with separately labeled neutrals, in the event that a customer wants to supply one of the sets of 120VAC with their own UPS (see attached). If we jumper it with a wire, we cannot give them independent wire numbers.

We have been using a layer we call the JUMPER layer, and leave it off the wire-layer list, but then we cannot use any wire stretch or scoot commands, etc. We typically will just draw this jumper as a line between the two terminals being jumpered. I've seen that some will use a wire layer and draw it and then go and change that wire to a non-wire layer. This works, but someway of disabling the wire numbering/wire network feature for selected wires or something would be best i would think, but i understand the ramifications in other areas as well. If there's a feature that we can use instead of the workaround we use, let me know.

thanks.
*Expert Elite*
dougmcalexander
Posts: 3,222
Registered: ‎10-18-2003
Message 9 of 12 (298 Views)

Re: I am having trouble with the JUMPER layer

04-14-2010 09:58 AM in reply to: testsubject
What you seek was added to version 2010 of AcadE. You can select certain wire layers not to receive a wire number assignment. Upgrade to version 2010 or 2011.
Doug McAlexander
Independent Consultant/Instructor/Mentor specializing in AutoCAD Electrical, ecscad, and promis-e implementation

Web site: www.ECADConsultant.com
Phone: (770) 841-8009

Please Accept as Solution if I helped you. Kudos are also much appreciated.
Contributor
Tmyers
Posts: 24
Registered: ‎09-23-2008
Message 10 of 12 (298 Views)

Re: I am having trouble with the JUMPER layer

04-18-2010 09:39 AM in reply to: testsubject
Doug,
I am also seeking the same functionality with something like an e-stop string. I see that there is something I can set up in AE2010 to accomplish this?

I looked under properties and noticed a setting under wire numbers for wire number options. I then looked under "based on wire layer" and then I assume I need to then perform a "Layer Setup" My question is: Is this where I have to put a wire layer like "jumper"? Will this leave all my other wire layers (as far as wire numbers) as is? I like the way I have my number setup for everything else, just not for jumpers.

When I add the "jumper" layer to the Layer Setup, how do I set it up properly to not display wire numbers?

Thank you for your help.

Todd
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