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ACE 2013 item number update

26 REPLIES 26
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Message 1 of 27
mcronin
1326 Views, 26 Replies

ACE 2013 item number update

Changing an item number in ACE 2013 on a panel component won't update other components of the same part number as it did in previous releases.

26 REPLIES 26
Message 2 of 27
dougmcalexander
in reply to: mcronin

I'm not sure what is happening in your case.  2013 is actually improved over all previous releases.  During the Panel Item Resequence routine, it back annotates the schematic and ensures that the item number for any given part number is the same for all related symbols across all peers (i.e. panel, schematic, 1-line, etc).  This is new and available only in release 2013. 

 

Note: 2013 even updates/reconciles any parts listed as Multiple Catalog entries to be sure that the panel footprint and schematic symbol item numbering matches.



Doug McAlexander


Design Engineer/Consultant/Instructor/Mentor specializing in AutoCAD Electrical training and implementation support

Phone and Web-based Support Plans Available

Phone: (770) 841-8009

www.linkedin.com/in/doug-mcalexander-1a77623




Please Accept as Solution if I helped you. Likes are also much appreciated.
Message 3 of 27
mcronin
in reply to: dougmcalexander

In earlier releases if you manually assigned an item number you were prompted to assign the new item number to all of the same catalog numbers in the project. This doesn,t happen in 2013. You can only assign the item number one at a time for all of the instances of the same catalog number. Very time consuming especially with terminal strips.

Message 4 of 27
mathalekar
in reply to: mcronin

The new item numbering allows user to keep sync between schematic & panel footprint. It is improved way of implementation than 2012 and earlier version which helps to reduce the duplications of item number in BOM. During the new changes in 2013 of item numbering feature, resequence also obey the check for consistent assignment across projects. You can assign one item number to terminal and run resequence to populate the item number across terminal strip by running resequence. If you want to change existing item number from say 1 to 2, then user "Fixed" attribute on panel footprint side and run item numbering to change across project. It is usually recommended to use resequence across project than using it per drawing basis.

Message 5 of 27
dshood
in reply to: mathalekar

I also am a bit disappointed that this feature does not work like it used to, we need to get this fixed so the user is prompted when a new item number is assigned that it will change the others. We as users do not want to have multiple item numbers for the same part without having to resequence item numbers every time we change or add a part. It is easy to accidentally assign a duplicate or the wrong item number to a part.

 

 

Message 6 of 27
broth
in reply to: mcronin

This 'New and Improved Feature' is anything but. When I have to hunt down and manually re-number every instance of a particular part (like 20 or 30 terminals, plus others) it prevents me from working in an efficient manner. Very few of these addional 'Features' improve the usability of the product, but only hinder efficiency. This must be fixed.

Message 7 of 27
mathalekar
in reply to: broth

Hello Broth,

 

There are certain improvement needed for this feature and we have noted down suggestions/views from forum. However, if your requirement is not to have a very specific item number assigned to a component, you can resequence the entire project once your work is done. You can keep specific number fixed by checking the checkbox on panel footprint side as well, so that that will not get changed or duplicated when resequencing the number AERESEQUENCE. You do not have to manuall change the item number in this way. When doing resequence, we have made sure that the sync between panel footprint & schematic component is updated in our new improvenent for AutoCAD Electrical 2014.

Message 8 of 27
broth
in reply to: mathalekar

Thanks;

I do appreciate your reply.

But, this is not what I meant. Many times during either the design phase
or in a re-use scenario, I may change the item number for a terminal (of
which there may be 20 or 30) from item #51 to item #47 (as an example) in
order to maintain some level of visual grouping within the BOM.

The fact that Autocad Electrical can no longer perform such a simple task
makes my job much harder. I will have a much more difficult time re-using
existing designs and making minor changes to them if the system cannot
keep the part number between the same parts consistent. Removing this
feature was an extremely foolish oversight, as now I run the very certain
risk that I will have several of the exact same parts have different part
numbers. How this make sense and is any kind of feature improvement
boggles the mind. After all, keeping part numbers straight should be (and
was) the very essence of the reason to use these packages. Now, you tell
me it does not do what it was originally designed to do. Manage part
numbers correctly.

Bruce A. Roth
Pall Corporation
Westborough Ma.
(508) 871-5398
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Message 9 of 27
dougmcalexander
in reply to: mcronin

I've been using this software since 1997. I can shed some light on the item numbering. Originally there was no automation. You manually typed in every item number, or you could click next for the next available number. Later, the ability to assign the item numbers automatically was introduced, The assignment was made based upon the location in the panel layout, according to the sort setting in drawing properties (i.e
Top to bottom from left to right). You could still assign manually if you prefer. You can assign manually today.

 

Version 2009 introduced an enhancement where the software checks to see if a particular MFG and CAT combination has already been assigned an item number, thus preventing the possibility of the same part number receiving multiple item numbers.

 

At the request of the customer base the item number resequence utility was improved in version 2011 so the software can automatically assign the item numbers alphabetically by manufacturer (big time-saver) to allow the BOM to be arranged numerically, while keeping all parts from the same manufacturer grouped together.

There is one flaw. The software is assigning alphabetically but first by drawing order and then alphabetically, so it is still possible to have parts from the same manufacturer split into multiple groups in the BOM. If Square-D parts are on sheet 2 and Allen-Bradley parts are on sheet 3, Square-D could be assigned item number 1, thus the numbering isn't truly alphabetical by manufacturer. I have reported this to Autodesk. If other Square-D parts are on sheet 3, they will most likely be assigned a number that is higher than the AB parts on the same drawing, thus it would also be possible for Square-D parts to be split into two groups in the panel. Again Autodesk has been notified of this. It is causing some users to lose valuable time rearranging their BOM manually.

Note that the item number resequence does allow you to select to number only new components that did not exist in the panel earlier, thus preserving any previously assigned values. New components get assigned the next available number. This places them at the bottom of a numerically sorted BOM, but this is of course necessary in the case where the panel was already released.



Doug McAlexander


Design Engineer/Consultant/Instructor/Mentor specializing in AutoCAD Electrical training and implementation support

Phone and Web-based Support Plans Available

Phone: (770) 841-8009

www.linkedin.com/in/doug-mcalexander-1a77623




Please Accept as Solution if I helped you. Likes are also much appreciated.
Message 10 of 27
broth
in reply to: dougmcalexander

Gentlemen;

Apparently, you are not really reading my posts and understanding what the
problem is.

Bruce A. Roth
Pall Corporation
Westborough Ma.
(508) 871-5398
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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This communication may contain information that is confidential,
privileged and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law.
If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender
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Message 11 of 27
mathalekar
in reply to: broth

Hello Bruce,

 

Following are comments to your statements.

--------------------

 

When I have to hunt down and manually re-number every instance of a particular part (like 20 or 30 terminals, plus others) it prevents me from working in an efficient manner.

 

 

But, this is not what I meant. Many times during either the design phase
or in a re-use scenario, I may change the item number for a terminal (of
which there may be 20 or 30) from item #51 to item #47 (as an example) in
order to maintain some level of visual grouping within the BOM.

 

[Mayuresh]: My answer in reply to your post was....

 

Hello Broth,

 

There are certain improvement needed for this feature and we have noted down suggestions/views from forum. However, if your requirement is not to have a very specific item number assigned to a component, you can resequence the entire project once your work is done. You can keep specific number fixed by checking the checkbox on panel footprint side as well, so that that will not get changed or duplicated when resequencing the number AERESEQUENCE. You do not have to manuall change the item number in this way. When doing resequence, we have made sure that the sync between panel footprint & schematic component is updated in our new improvenent for AutoCAD Electrical 2014. (should have been AutoCAD Electrical 2013 though)

 

---------------------

 

However, it seems my workaround (not solution) does not really help you to resolve your issue. You can drop me an email with some specific scenario of issues around this to my official email id : mayuresh.athalekar@autodesk.com and we will note down at our end for enhancement of this feature. We will put up the user scenario to our concerned team to look into while enhancement of this.

 

Again excuse if i misunderstood the problem statement from you in general.

Message 12 of 27
broth
in reply to: mathalekar

This is what I need back:



Simple.

Bruce A. Roth
Pall Corporation
Westborough Ma.
(508) 871-5398
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Message 13 of 27

Hi Mathelkar,

 

I can reproduce the issue.  It's all about the workflow.  If there is already a component inserted with an item number assigned and I insert another component and assign the same part number, the software will automatically assign the new component symbol the same item number as the previous one.  This is good, and this is the way I normally work.  But if I were to type over the item number that AutoCAD Electrical assigned, and I replace that number with a number that has not already been used in the project, and I immediately click OK to exit the Insert/Edit dialog, there is no warning and I can end up with two separate item numbers for the same MFG and CAT combination.  

 

Now let's assume I have 10 parts inserted and all are assigned the same part number and item number, perhaps even manually.  Later I edit one of them and change the item number.  I click OK and only this occurrence of this part gets the new item number.  There is no warning that this part number has already been assigned a different item number, and no option to search for and replace all other occurrences of this part with the new number.  In fact, even if I click "Find" next to the item number field before I click OK, AutoCAD Electrical doesn't find the mismatch and it doesn't alert me that this new number will no longer matches the other 9 symbols.

 

Version 2009 introduced an improvement over versions 2008 and previous. With 2008 and previous, I could type in a number that differed from one already assigned to the same MFG and CAT combination and the software would only offer to assign a different number to the edited part and leave the others alone, or change all occurrences to the new number.  It did not offer to force the new part to change to the previously assigned item number for this part number.  I requested that this be improved and it was finally improved in version 2009. This particular loop in the code should also be called in the case I described earlier, to prevent Bruce's issue.  In other words, no matter how a number is entered into the item number field, there should always be a cross-check to verify that there is no way to have the same MFG and CAT combination assigned more than one item number.

 

One thing that Bruce could do is Export to a spreadsheet and perform a Find/Replace when he needs to change all occurrences of a part number to a new item number assignment.  Then update the project from the spreadsheet.  It would also be a nice enhancement if the Find/Edit/Replace utility on the Schematic menu tab would offer a find/replace of the Item number field.  But I still believe the software should check for item number mismatches as described earlier, so even if I type in a new number, by mistake or intentionally, the software alerts me and offers the opportunity to reconcile all to the new number or revert back to the previously assigned number.



Doug McAlexander


Design Engineer/Consultant/Instructor/Mentor specializing in AutoCAD Electrical training and implementation support

Phone and Web-based Support Plans Available

Phone: (770) 841-8009

www.linkedin.com/in/doug-mcalexander-1a77623




Please Accept as Solution if I helped you. Likes are also much appreciated.
Message 14 of 27
dshood
in reply to: dougmcalexander

I can back you up on that and have been upset about this problem for a long time.....


[cid:image001.jpg@01CEE12C.294DFAB0]
Message 15 of 27
broth
in reply to: dshood

Hopefully, the will fix this ASAP. It creates a real problem for me.

Bruce A. Roth
Pall Corporation
Westborough Ma.
(508) 871-5398
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Attention:

This communication may contain information that is confidential,
privileged and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law.
If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender
immediately and delete the original, all attachments, and all
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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message 16 of 27
dougmcalexander
in reply to: mcronin

It hasn't been a problem for me because the companies I design for like the automation of the item number resequence tool. They don't care about specific numbers being assigned to a particular part. They want speed to market. They like being able to resequence alphabetically as needed and move on to the next task. Thus I haven't had to manually type in item numbers ever since the item number resequence utility was added. I just wish that it truly assigned item numbers alphabetically project-wide by manufacturer, regardless of page order.

I must admit that the item numbering capabilities in AutoCAD Electrical, while still not perfect, are still better than competitive software I have used. With the competitors you can avoid duplication or assigning two different item numbers to the same part number, but you can also end up with arbitrary gaps in the numbering sequence.


Doug McAlexander


Design Engineer/Consultant/Instructor/Mentor specializing in AutoCAD Electrical training and implementation support

Phone and Web-based Support Plans Available

Phone: (770) 841-8009

www.linkedin.com/in/doug-mcalexander-1a77623




Please Accept as Solution if I helped you. Likes are also much appreciated.
Message 17 of 27
dougmcalexander
in reply to: mcronin

Bruce, the spreadsheet update utility is your best solution. Don't fret too much about this while waiting on Autodesk. Just export the project to a spreadsheet. Find and replace the item numbers with Excel and update the project from the spreadsheet. I've done it that way plenty of times. The spreadsheet update utility is the catch-all for mass updates of attribute values. Having AutoCAD Electrical reconcile the number changes automatically is just icing on the cake. Spreadsheet updates are my go to. I can update many things at once. I can renumber a terminal strip, change a part number, change item numbers etc. all in one place.



Doug McAlexander


Design Engineer/Consultant/Instructor/Mentor specializing in AutoCAD Electrical training and implementation support

Phone and Web-based Support Plans Available

Phone: (770) 841-8009

www.linkedin.com/in/doug-mcalexander-1a77623




Please Accept as Solution if I helped you. Likes are also much appreciated.
Message 18 of 27
broth
in reply to: dougmcalexander

Thanks for the info.
I just tried it & it failed with "Column Labels "HDL" and "FILENAME" not
found. Unable to continue.

Bruce A. Roth
Pall Corporation
Westborough Ma.
(508) 871-5398
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Attention:

This communication may contain information that is confidential,
privileged and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law.
If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender
immediately and delete the original, all attachments, and all
copies of this communication.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message 19 of 27
automationstar
in reply to: broth

Same problem here, tried workaround:

1  Export to spreadsheet, general option, all components/locations

2  Erased all item numbers

3  Updated per spreadsheet

Ran report and some components still contained item numbers - Jumpers and some terminals.

Blew away the terminals in the layout, blew away the project MDB file, rebuilt the project, reran report, still components with item numbers on them.

Looks like terminals with jumpers in combination still have to manually changed as well.

 

Back to manually editing...

 

Low Hanging Fruit guys....

 

Message 20 of 27
mbrown
in reply to: automationstar

Sorry, old thread revival.

Unfortunately, my company asked that we re-number item numbers in order of assembly.

The first program erases all balloons (works in 2016)

The program at bottom re-sequence item numbers (works in 2016)

 

You select a block and it goes through and updates the "b_item" attribute on all blocks of a same block name.

It also has an incrementing feature.

It does not update the balloon, if there is one already, so you have to re-balloon.

Nor does it update the item number as it appears on the tagged component in the schematics, (Our BOMs are run entirely on layout drawings).

I was looking for a way to "FIX" them at the same time, but cannot figure out where that bit is stored. 

If anybody else can improve on this, I'm all ears, please repost below.

 

 

So our process is:

Erase all balloons.

Auto Re-seqence starting at 100000.

then go back and re-number all items.

Then re-balloon.

 

 

Not exactly the most error free process, but it is one we have to live with.

 

We are also adding "P_ITEM=X" to the textval field in the cad database so that they can also update when the part is picked from the parts catalog

*******************************************************************************************

(defun c:EBAL(); erase all balloons
(SETVAR "CMDECHO" 0)
(setq oldlayer (getvar "CLAYER")) ;saves current layer
(command "-layer" "set" "0" "")
(command "layer" "thaw" "*" "")
(command "layer" "on" "*" "")
(command "layer" "unlock" "*" "")
(command "layer" "OFF" "*" "Y" "")
(command "-layer" "on" "BAL" "")
(command "ERASE" "W" "9999999,9999999" "-9999999,-999999" "")
(command "layer" "ON" "*" "")
(command "-layer" "set" oldlayer "")
(print "All BALLOONS ERASED")
)

;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;

(vl-load-com)
(defun c:bseq (/ LM:GetAttributeValue ssss attValue)
(defun LM:GetAttributeValue (blk tag / val enx)
(while
(and
(null val)
(= "ATTRIB"
(cdr (assoc 0 (setq enx (entget (setq blk (entnext blk))))))
)
)
(if (= (strcase tag) (strcase (cdr (assoc 2 enx))))
(setq val (cdr (assoc 1 enx)))
)
)
)
(if (and (setq ssSS (ssget ":S:E" '((0 . "INSERT") (66 . 1))))
(setq attValue (LM:GetAttributeValue (ssname ssSS 0) "P_ITEM"))
)
(PRINT attValue)
)
(princ)
(SETQ EDITBLOCKNAME (SSNAME ssss 0))
(Setq OLDITEMNUMBER attvalue)
;UPDATE COMPONENT ITEM NUMBER USING OLD ITEM NUMBER TO NEW VALUE
(IF (= INDEXEDITEMNUMBER nil)(SETQ INDEXEDITEMNUMBER 0))
(IF (= NEWITEMNUMBER nil)(SETQ NEWITEMNUMBER 0))
(setq INDEXEDITEMNUMBER (+ NEWITEMNUMBER 1))
(PRINC "NEW Item Number <")
(initget (+ 2 4))
(PRINC INDEXEDITEMNUMBER)
(SETQ USERINPUTNO (geTINT ">:"))
(SETQ NEWITEMNUMBER USERINPUTNO)
(IF (/= USERINPUT nil)(SETQ NEWITEMNUMBER INDEXEDITEMNUMBER))
(IF (= NEWITEMNUMBER nil)(SETQ NEWITEMNUMBER INDEXEDITEMNUMBER))
(COMMAND "CMDECHO" 0)
(command "._attedit" "_N" "_N" EDITBLOCKNAME "P_ITEM" OLDITEMNUMBER OLDITEMNUMBER NEWITEMNUMBER)
(COMMAND "CMDECHO" 1)
(graphscr)
)

;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;

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