2010 symbol builder grief and old symbol builder happy

[arlene.mccoy]

We have upgraded to 2010 and I was very unhappy with the new 2010 symbol builder. I searched here till I found a post about it. I am VERY relieved to find, I think it was Doug, that said type ( wd_sym_build ) to get the old builder. Quite often I would use LOCAL block insert in dwg only. Why did they change the symbol builder that was so easy to use into a nightmare. Thanks for leaving the old symbol builder in there but let us know.
Thanks Arlene

[RMichaud]

Ooooohhh thank you thank you thank you! 🙂
Just discovered the same dislike for the new symbol builder.
Glad the old one is at least still accessible.

[BruTec]

I understand why you think the new Symbol Builder is difficult. Change is always hard. But I would really encourage you to give is a try. Everyone I have shown it to, even people that disliked it before, like it better once they see all of the power and ease of use it provides.

For example, it you want to use an existing block, you can select it from the Browse button in the Select Symbol/Objects dialog box.

When inserting attributes onto a symbol, rather than having to insert them one at a time, you can select the attributes you want to insert and with a single click insert them all at one time.

Also, because you are in the block editor environment of AutoCAD, you don't have to exit and restart the tool to make changes. All of the editing functions are available within the tool.

If you have something you can't do with the new Symbol Builder, post it and I will try to help you out.

Don't give up yet, it is really a very cool tool!

[Anonymous]

By going out of the dwg, you loose any perspective on any new symbols you
are trying to create. This is especially true if the symbol you are using
has multiple paired connection points i.e. like a protection relay. It's
even worse when you are trying to convert an old ACAD dwg to electrical
where the wires are not spaced evenly. I find the drop down lists cramped,
ugly and hard to navigate.

As for modifying a symbol block, I just open the dwg and invoke the old
version of the editor to get any new attribute definitions needed or copy
and rename existing ones.

Regards Brad

wrote in message news:6304015@discussion.autodesk.com...
I understand why you think the new Symbol Builder is difficult. Change is
always hard. But I would really encourage you to give is a try. Everyone I
have shown it to, even people that disliked it before, like it better once
they see all of the power and ease of use it provides.

For example, it you want to use an existing block, you can select it from
the Browse button in the Select Symbol/Objects dialog box.

When inserting attributes onto a symbol, rather than having to insert them
one at a time, you can select the attributes you want to insert and with a
single click insert them all at one time.

Also, because you are in the block editor environment of AutoCAD, you don't
have to exit and restart the tool to make changes. All of the editing
functions are available within the tool.

If you have something you can't do with the new Symbol Builder, post it and
I will try to help you out.

Don't give up yet, it is really a very cool tool!

[arlene.mccoy]

Ok
How to do this? it was very simple.

Old way when i needed to adjust a symbol a bit or use it to create a similar symbol on the fly all within my current drawing.
I would only need to explode it make any adjustments then use old "symbol builder" select all of it, right click and use "local block insert" select insertion point and plunk it in place DONE.
I never need to leave the zoomed in area or go to block editor or browse out to a file and rename or save over or purge old block.
Still happy the old way is available.

[BruTec]

This wasn't intended to start an argument, I was just hoping to encourage you to try the new tools.

For example the steps with the new Symbol Builder are just as easy, and no need to explode existing symbols.

1. Start the Symbol Builder.
2. In the Select Symbol/Objects dialog box, for Name, select the existing block name from the drop-down list. Click OK.
3. In the Symbol Builder environment, make your desired changes. Click Close Block Editor. Click OK.
4. Click Yes to insert new symbol in drawing.

[RMichaud]

I must concur with Arlene and Brad. The new symbol builder interface is not very intuitive. The dialog boxes are vague and require the user to make assumtions as to what is required for selection. The selection for a "new" symbol seems to be absent. The pull down menu is often disfunctional asking to,"select attributes in the grid before invoking the command". What grid? There is no manor of confirmation of progress illustrated for the benefit of the user to aid in proficiency as in the older interface. And it is completely void of any automated workflow again requiring the user to make assumtions as to whether or not the task is complete. While there is an auditing feature there is no way to jump to the errors to resolve them. The insert wire dialog box blanks out on the pull down menus not allowing for the selction of the type of wire terminals or the direction. Is my istallation the only one doing this? Since it performs as badly on my laptop I would have to say not.
Not bashing the concept of working in the block editor environment, though Arlene makes some good points about working in your dwg to maintain a visual aspect for grid spacing and alignment to wires, but it is clearly for more productive to use the older interface seeing as there are so many areas that the new interface seems to be incomplete in design execution.

[BruTec]

Seems like I'm the Lone Ranger here, but I like this feature and hope to convince you to give it more of a try. Once again, I really understand that change is difficult, especially while under the pressures of deadlines in the workplace. And of course, time and money for training is scarce these days.

I will also agree with Arlene about working in the drawing for a visual aspect. That is one drawback to the block editor environment.

I guess I don't understand the problems with the pull-downs. What pull-downs are you referring too? Are you using the Select Symbol / Objects dialog box? As indicated by the arrows in the attached image, it seems pretty straight forward to me. Select From Drawing is a pretty specific area, so is Insertion Point. Is the confusion from the Attribute Template area?

Are you using the Symbol Builder Attribute Editor? This feature shows you check marks for all inserted attributes, (indicated in attached image), so progress is shown. All required and optional attributes are shown on one page, simpler than having to select from several different dialogs to find your desired attributes.

Since all attributes are listed under Required and Optional headings what assumptions are needed that I'm missing?

I cannot duplicate your error with the wire dialog box blanking out. What steps are you executing to create this?

I frequently train AutoCAD Electrical classes, so I'm trying to see the software through your eyes and understand the difficulties you are having. This will allow me to present the material in a clearer manner.

[RMichaud]

Thank you for posting the image, now I know for certain that my installation is disfunctional. (My laptop too?) That or I am missing a fix or patch or something. I do not see any of the items listed with checkmarks under the pulldown menu as is in your picture. I did install the update-1 patch.
The only attribute available under the "required" pull down tab for insertion is "TAG". Where are the choices for CAT, ASSYCODE ect.? No matter what I click on I am either met with an error mesage or a repeat insert for "TAG" appears. The same for the "Optional" pulldown menu. The wire connection dialog page as I said earlier is just disfunctional entirely. I would run the repair for this installation if I wasn't seeing the same problems on my laptop but I am not convinced at this point that it would solve the problem. Perhaps the software copy that I received was an older release? (received 10/29/2009) Perhaps because I upgraded directly from Acade 2008 skipping 2009?
At the least I am still able to use the old symbol builder and am quite proficient with it.

BTW- know how to flip the drain wire connection orientation on the shield symbol?
Thanks,
Ron

[RMichaud]

Again, thanks for the picture. My troubles have been resolved after taking a closer look at the picture. I had not selected a library path when advancing to the block editer screen and as a result nothing was functional. Shouldn't the default library path at least have been referenced initially?
Anyway, I'll give it a thorough reveiw and post my opinion after.
Thanks again,
Ron

[Anonymous]

I've only tried it in BETA releases and have found it to be confusing, hard
to use and it present no clear workflow.
The older version allows the block to be built within the drawing allowing
placement of the wire connections to be done with precision.
It also presents a clear workflow and let's you see which attributes have
already been inserted with no ambiguity.
The wire connection insertion is easy and not all that hard to mess up
unlike the drop down menu system in the new version.

Regards Brad

wrote in message news:6306542@discussion.autodesk.com...
Again, thanks for the picture. My troubles have been resolved after taking a
closer look at the picture. I had not selected a library path when advancing
to the block editer screen and as a result nothing was functional. Shouldn't
the default library path at least have been referenced initially?
Anyway, I'll give it a thorough reveiw and post my opinion after.
Thanks again,
Ron