You want to know when LDT is going away?

[Anonymous]

It's been talked about for a while. When is Land Desktop going away? When
will it be discontinued? When will I not be able to buy it anymore?

Now we can tell you. Yes, it's going away. Yes, we know when. Yes, we can
even tell you about the NEW alternative - yes, you heard right. An
alternative.

Curious?

www.civil3d.com 😉

--
Jason Hickey
Engineered Efficiency, Inc.
www.civil3d.com
www.eng-eff.com

[Anonymous]

It's only 11:30 - Don't you have to wait unitl at least 12:00!

[Anonymous]

Our server is on EDT, and it's past midnight there. My laptop is just the
one on CDT.

--
Jason Hickey
Engineered Efficiency, Inc.
www.civil3d.com
www.eng-eff.com



"dgalloway" wrote in message news:5946678@discussion.autodesk.com...
It's only 11:30 - Don't you have to wait unitl at least 12:00!

[Anonymous]

Fair enough, I'm just bustin' your boys.

[saluki]

A rework of a rework of an old classic.

"Autodesk Pie 2009"

A long, long time ago...
I can still remember
How S8 used to make me smile.
And I knew if I had my chance
That I could make that software dance
And, man those plans would get out on time.

But Civil3D made me shiver
With every grading object I created.
Bad news on the doorstep;
I couldn’t take one more crash.

I can’t remember if I cried
When I read about Land Desktop's demise.,
But something touched me deep inside
The day Land Desktop died.

So bye-bye, Land Desktop & Civil Design.
Waiting for the C3D Service Packs
But the website is dry.
And them good old boys were drinkin’ whiskey and rye
Singin’, "this’ll be the day that I die.
"this’ll be the day that I die."

Did you like pipeworks in Civil Design,
And do you have faith in LandXML,
If Autodesk tells you so?
Do you believe in Dynamic Links,
Can Service Packs save your mortal soul,
And can you teach me how to design real slow?

Well, I know that you feel like a beta tester
`cause I saw your post in the discussion groups
You said your drawings crashed.
Man, I dig those C3D hardware requirements.

I was a lonely teenage cad tech
With a S8 manual and a digi puck,
But I knew I was out of luck
The day the LD died.

I started singin’,
"bye-bye, Land Desktop & Civil Design
Waiting for the service packs,
But the website is dry.
Them good old boys were drinkin’ whiskey and rye
And singin’, "this’ll be the day that I die.
"this’ll be the day that I die."

Now for ten years we’ve been on DCA & S8
LDD and Land Desktop,
But that’s not how it's going to be.
We used to make the software sing and dance,
Now we're not productive, & training costs us plenty
Were back to being novice users and that includes you and me,

Oh, and while our CFO was looking down,
Autodesk stuck us on the subscription program.
Now Land Desktop is discontinued;
No suitable replacement is provided.
And while the Autodesk programmers tried to catch up,
Civil3D crashed and the users complained,
And flames went up in the discussion groups
The day the Land Desktop died.

We were singing,
bye-bye, Land Desktop & Civil Design
Waiting for the Service Packs,
But the website is dry.
Them good old boys were drinkin’ whiskey and rye
And singin’, "this’ll be the day that I die.
"this’ll be the day that I die."

What to do in a summer swelter.
The deadlines are coming and C3Ds crashing,
Drawings are corrupt and failing fast.
Boss is unhappy and the client’s are leaving.
The drafters tried for a drawing recovery,
While Autodesk is on the sidelines rolling in cash.

Now Service Pack 1 was sweet perfume
But the Grading Objects still don’t interact.
So we all got up to shout,
Oh, but we never got the chance!
cause autodesk tried to make amends;
But the drafters & designers refused to yield.
Do you recall what was revealed
The day Land Desktop died?

We started singing,
bye-bye, Land Desktop & Civil Design
Waiting for the Service Packs,
But the website was dry.
Them good old boys were drinkin’ whiskey and rye
And singin’, "this’ll be the day that I die.
"this’ll be the day that I die."

Oh, and there we were all in one place,
A user base lost in space
With no time left to start again.
So come on: LD09 be nimble, LD09 be quick!
We'll be using you till 2026
Cause Land Desktop is the designers only friend.

Oh, and as we watched him on the AU stage
Our hands were clenched in fists of rage.
No software born in hell (C3D)
Could replace what we’re using now.
And as the shouts climbed high into the night
To complain about the end of Land Desktop,
I saw 'Bentley' laughing with delight
The day Land Desktop died

He was singing,
"bye-bye, Land Desktop & Civil Design
Their waiting for the service packs,
But the website is dry.
Them good old boys were drinkin’ whiskey and rye
And singin’, "this’ll be the day that I die.
"this’ll be the day that I die."

I met a cad tech who sang the blues
And I asked him for some happy news,
But he just smiled and turned away.
I went down to the local reseller
Where I’d bought S8 years before,
But the man there said the CD wouldn’t install on Vista or XP.

And in the streets: the engineers screamed,
The designers cried, and Bentley dreamed.
But not a word was spoken;
Civil3D was all but broken.
And the Land Desktop features I used the most:
Pipeworks and Hydrology,
They caught the last train for the coast
The day Land Desktop died.

And we were singing,
bye-bye, Land Desktop & Civil Design
Waiting for the Service Packs,
But the website was dry.
Them good old boys were drinkin’ whiskey and rye
And singin’, "this’ll be the day that I die.
"this’ll be the day that I die."

And they were singing,
bye-bye, Land Desktop & Civil Design
Waiting for the Service Packs,
But the website was dry.
Them good old boys were drinkin’ whiskey and rye
And singin’, "this’ll be the day that I die . . .

[Anonymous]

You could have re-done that grading object 10 times in the time it took you to type that. Or moved an alignment and updated your profile and roadway in the time it took you to type the first line. Man I love Civil 3D!

[saluki]

I usually do have to create a grading object about 10 times in C3D as well as rebooting and typing FILEDIA <1> at the command prompt each time. (wink wink)

I like civil 3d, I love having land desktop in my toolbox as well.

They should keep both products, they are two different tools, both having their place in civil design. (I know it would cost Autodesk time and money chasing down LD bugs for each release but I think it's worth it).

If they do get rid of LD completely then they will introduce contour objects and other LD features back into C3D (or perhaps from a 3rd party will fill the gap).

There are times when you don't need a dynamic super accurate 3D surface.

I'm all for dynamic design it is the future of our industry, but C3D still has links missing in the 'dynamic' model.

I am looking forward to the day you can raise and lower single and multiple building pads and have 100% of your model update and maintain your design intent. C3D just isn't there yet. I think it will be, it's just several years out.

At least they are leaving LD as an extension. Anyone hear of Civil Designs fate?

[AussieHans]

There are many posts ranging from mediocre to very good. This one is just great, I hope Autodesk staff takes it to heart. Well done.

In the mean time grading continues to be an embarrassment to Civil3D.

[Sinc]

>> If they do get rid of LD completely then they will introduce contour objects and other LD features back into C3D (or perhaps from a 3rd party will fill the gap).

Huh? Can't follow that. After getting used to C3D surfaces, I have absolutely zero need or desire for anything surface-related from Land Desktop. Surfaces are possibly the closest thing in C3D to a cleanly-implemented feature without problems.


>> I like civil 3d, I love having land desktop in my toolbox as well.

We only use Land Desktop if we need to jump briefly into one of our old, dead projects. Otherwise, we've done everything exclusively in C3D for the last year, with no need/desire to even look at Land Desktop. In fact, as time goes on, we've reached the point where we actively loathe starting up Land Desktop. If we're going to do any significant new work in a project at all, we've taken to starting a new project for the job in C3D, then we pull what we need out of the old LDT project, and do the work in C3D, because that's far easier than trying to use LDT.

If it weren't handy to use LDT to browse old projects that we don't want to convert to C3D, we wouldn't even install it.

[Anonymous]

You have WAY too much free time on your hands...


wrote in message news:5946701@discussion.autodesk.com...
A rework of a rework of an old classic.

"Autodesk Pie 2009"

A long, long time ago...
I can still remember
How S8 used to make me smile.
And I knew if I had my chance
That I could make that software dance
And, man those plans would get out on time.

But Civil3D made me shiver
With every grading object I created.
Bad news on the doorstep;
I couldn't take one more crash.

I can't remember if I cried
When I read about Land Desktop's demise.,
But something touched me deep inside
The day Land Desktop died.

So bye-bye, Land Desktop & Civil Design.
Waiting for the C3D Service Packs
But the website is dry.
And them good old boys were drinkin' whiskey and rye
Singin', "this'll be the day that I die.
"this'll be the day that I die."

Did you like pipeworks in Civil Design,
And do you have faith in LandXML,
If Autodesk tells you so?
Do you believe in Dynamic Links,
Can Service Packs save your mortal soul,
And can you teach me how to design real slow?

Well, I know that you feel like a beta tester
`cause I saw your post in the discussion groups
You said your drawings crashed.
Man, I dig those C3D hardware requirements.

I was a lonely teenage cad tech
With a S8 manual and a digi puck,
But I knew I was out of luck
The day the LD died.

I started singin',
"bye-bye, Land Desktop & Civil Design
Waiting for the service packs,
But the website is dry.
Them good old boys were drinkin' whiskey and rye
And singin', "this'll be the day that I die.
"this'll be the day that I die."

Now for ten years we've been on DCA & S8
LDD and Land Desktop,
But that's not how it's going to be.
We used to make the software sing and dance,
Now we're not productive, & training costs us plenty
Were back to being novice users and that includes you and me,

Oh, and while our CFO was looking down,
Autodesk stuck us on the subscription program.
Now Land Desktop is discontinued;
No suitable replacement is provided.
And while the Autodesk programmers tried to catch up,
Civil3D crashed and the users complained,
And flames went up in the discussion groups
The day the Land Desktop died.

We were singing,
bye-bye, Land Desktop & Civil Design
Waiting for the Service Packs,
But the website is dry.
Them good old boys were drinkin' whiskey and rye
And singin', "this'll be the day that I die.
"this'll be the day that I die."

What to do in a summer swelter.
The deadlines are coming and C3Ds crashing,
Drawings are corrupt and failing fast.
Boss is unhappy and the client's are leaving.
The drafters tried for a drawing recovery,
While Autodesk is on the sidelines rolling in cash.

Now Service Pack 1 was sweet perfume
But the Grading Objects still don't interact.
So we all got up to shout,
Oh, but we never got the chance!
cause autodesk tried to make amends;
But the drafters & designers refused to yield.
Do you recall what was revealed
The day Land Desktop died?

We started singing,
bye-bye, Land Desktop & Civil Design
Waiting for the Service Packs,
But the website was dry.
Them good old boys were drinkin' whiskey and rye
And singin', "this'll be the day that I die.
"this'll be the day that I die."

Oh, and there we were all in one place,
A user base lost in space
With no time left to start again.
So come on: LD09 be nimble, LD09 be quick!
We'll be using you till 2026
Cause Land Desktop is the designers only friend.

Oh, and as we watched him on the AU stage
Our hands were clenched in fists of rage.
No software born in hell (C3D)
Could replace what we're using now.
And as the shouts climbed high into the night
To complain about the end of Land Desktop,
I saw 'Bentley' laughing with delight
The day Land Desktop died

He was singing,
"bye-bye, Land Desktop & Civil Design
Their waiting for the service packs,
But the website is dry.
Them good old boys were drinkin' whiskey and rye
And singin', "this'll be the day that I die.
"this'll be the day that I die."

I met a cad tech who sang the blues
And I asked him for some happy news,
But he just smiled and turned away.
I went down to the local reseller
Where I'd bought S8 years before,
But the man there said the CD wouldn't install on Vista or XP.

And in the streets: the engineers screamed,
The designers cried, and Bentley dreamed.
But not a word was spoken;
Civil3D was all but broken.
And the Land Desktop features I used the most:
Pipeworks and Hydrology,
They caught the last train for the coast
The day Land Desktop died.

And we were singing,
bye-bye, Land Desktop & Civil Design
Waiting for the Service Packs,
But the website was dry.
Them good old boys were drinkin' whiskey and rye
And singin', "this'll be the day that I die.
"this'll be the day that I die."

And they were singing,
bye-bye, Land Desktop & Civil Design
Waiting for the Service Packs,
But the website was dry.
Them good old boys were drinkin' whiskey and rye
And singin', "this'll be the day that I die . . .

[Matt.Anderson]

I refuse to install LDD beyond 07. We started our first pilot on Civil 06, Civil 07 was bumpy until SP3 with the data shortcuts, 08 was smooth, 09 has saved me a few times, and messed me up yesterday...

I'll open LDD to verify something was placed in a project, or to correct a misplaced project before yanking it into C3d.

It doesn't appear the LDD is going away, it just will not be availble for purchase alone, and they will not waste anymore "plastic" on DVD's... Go Green!

[Anonymous]

Don McLean is scratching his head somewhere.

Jon's right. Way too much time but funny none the less. 🙂

I could have rebuilt a file in the time it took just too read it. 😮

--
John Mayo, PE
Project Engineer
Conklin Associates
Ramsey, NJ

Civil 3D 2008 SP2, LDT 2008 SP2, Raster Design 2008
P-IV at 3.5 GHz
2 GB Ram
Nvidea Quadro FX w/ 128 MB Ram
wrote in message news:5946701@discussion.autodesk.com...
A rework of a rework of an old classic.

"Autodesk Pie 2009"

A long, long time ago...
I can still remember
How S8 used to make me smile.
And I knew if I had my chance
That I could make that software dance
And, man those plans would get out on time.

But Civil3D made me shiver
With every grading object I created.
Bad news on the doorstep;
I couldn't take one more crash.

I can't remember if I cried
When I read about Land Desktop's demise.,
But something touched me deep inside
The day Land Desktop died.

So bye-bye, Land Desktop & Civil Design.
Waiting for the C3D Service Packs
But the website is dry.
And them good old boys were drinkin' whiskey and rye
Singin', "this'll be the day that I die.
"this'll be the day that I die."

Did you like pipeworks in Civil Design,
And do you have faith in LandXML,
If Autodesk tells you so?
Do you believe in Dynamic Links,
Can Service Packs save your mortal soul,
And can you teach me how to design real slow?

Well, I know that you feel like a beta tester
`cause I saw your post in the discussion groups
You said your drawings crashed.
Man, I dig those C3D hardware requirements.

I was a lonely teenage cad tech
With a S8 manual and a digi puck,
But I knew I was out of luck
The day the LD died.

I started singin',
"bye-bye, Land Desktop & Civil Design
Waiting for the service packs,
But the website is dry.
Them good old boys were drinkin' whiskey and rye
And singin', "this'll be the day that I die.
"this'll be the day that I die."

Now for ten years we've been on DCA & S8
LDD and Land Desktop,
But that's not how it's going to be.
We used to make the software sing and dance,
Now we're not productive, & training costs us plenty
Were back to being novice users and that includes you and me,

Oh, and while our CFO was looking down,
Autodesk stuck us on the subscription program.
Now Land Desktop is discontinued;
No suitable replacement is provided.
And while the Autodesk programmers tried to catch up,
Civil3D crashed and the users complained,
And flames went up in the discussion groups
The day the Land Desktop died.

We were singing,
bye-bye, Land Desktop & Civil Design
Waiting for the Service Packs,
But the website is dry.
Them good old boys were drinkin' whiskey and rye
And singin', "this'll be the day that I die.
"this'll be the day that I die."

What to do in a summer swelter.
The deadlines are coming and C3Ds crashing,
Drawings are corrupt and failing fast.
Boss is unhappy and the client's are leaving.
The drafters tried for a drawing recovery,
While Autodesk is on the sidelines rolling in cash.

Now Service Pack 1 was sweet perfume
But the Grading Objects still don't interact.
So we all got up to shout,
Oh, but we never got the chance!
cause autodesk tried to make amends;
But the drafters & designers refused to yield.
Do you recall what was revealed
The day Land Desktop died?

We started singing,
bye-bye, Land Desktop & Civil Design
Waiting for the Service Packs,
But the website was dry.
Them good old boys were drinkin' whiskey and rye
And singin', "this'll be the day that I die.
"this'll be the day that I die."

Oh, and there we were all in one place,
A user base lost in space
With no time left to start again.
So come on: LD09 be nimble, LD09 be quick!
We'll be using you till 2026
Cause Land Desktop is the designers only friend.

Oh, and as we watched him on the AU stage
Our hands were clenched in fists of rage.
No software born in hell (C3D)
Could replace what we're using now.
And as the shouts climbed high into the night
To complain about the end of Land Desktop,
I saw 'Bentley' laughing with delight
The day Land Desktop died

He was singing,
"bye-bye, Land Desktop & Civil Design
Their waiting for the service packs,
But the website is dry.
Them good old boys were drinkin' whiskey and rye
And singin', "this'll be the day that I die.
"this'll be the day that I die."

I met a cad tech who sang the blues
And I asked him for some happy news,
But he just smiled and turned away.
I went down to the local reseller
Where I'd bought S8 years before,
But the man there said the CD wouldn't install on Vista or XP.

And in the streets: the engineers screamed,
The designers cried, and Bentley dreamed.
But not a word was spoken;
Civil3D was all but broken.
And the Land Desktop features I used the most:
Pipeworks and Hydrology,
They caught the last train for the coast
The day Land Desktop died.

And we were singing,
bye-bye, Land Desktop & Civil Design
Waiting for the Service Packs,
But the website was dry.
Them good old boys were drinkin' whiskey and rye
And singin', "this'll be the day that I die.
"this'll be the day that I die."

And they were singing,
bye-bye, Land Desktop & Civil Design
Waiting for the Service Packs,
But the website was dry.
Them good old boys were drinkin' whiskey and rye
And singin', "this'll be the day that I die . . .

[AllenJessup]

From what I've been able to find out LDT is going away. LDTC2009 will not ship with C3D2009. But it will be available for download. There will be no LDT or LDTC 2010. So LDT2009 will be the last hurrah.

Autodesk is introducing a mid range package called AutoCAD Civil (as opposed to Civil 3D). This package will drop Map and the Hydrology packages. They'll push it as a way to get in to Civil [3D] without quite the price tag. I personally don't think it will do to well.

Allen

[Anonymous]

One very small correction, Allen - the package will drop Map and
*extensions* - that's an important term. Right now, Hydrology is the
primary extension that everyone is familiar with, but I think it would be a
mistake to think that's the only thing that may be available in the future.

I had my doubts too, but I was finally convinced that this isn't a bad
thing.

--
Jason Hickey
Engineered Efficiency, Inc.
www.civil3d.com
www.eng-eff.com



"AllenJ" wrote in message news:5947077@discussion.autodesk.com...
From what I've been able to find out LDT is going away. LDTC2009 will not
ship with C3D2009. But it will be available for download. There will be no
LDT or LDTC 2010. So LDT2009 will be the last hurrah.

Autodesk is introducing a mid range package called AutoCAD Civil (as opposed
to Civil 3D). This package will drop Map and the Hydrology packages. They'll
push it as a way to get in to Civil [3D] without quite the price tag. I
personally don't think it will do to well.

Allen

[AllenJessup]

Thanks for keeping me honest Jason. I never said that the attempt was a bad thing. I just don't personally think it will do very well.

For my type of use I would rather see a lower level product targeted to Surveyors. Just Survey and Surfaces and maybe Alignments and Profiles. Our Surveyors don't need all the Design tools but without Map I can't downgrade them to AutoCAD Civil.

Allen

[Anonymous]

you said absolutely nothing there that I disagree with 😉

--
Jason Hickey
Engineered Efficiency, Inc.
www.civil3d.com
www.eng-eff.com



"AllenJ" wrote in message news:5947154@discussion.autodesk.com...
Thanks for keeping me honest Jason. I never said that the attempt was a bad
thing. I just don't personally think it will do very well.

For my type of use I would rather see a lower level product targeted to
Surveyors. Just Survey and Surfaces and maybe Alignments and Profiles. Our
Surveyors don't need all the Design tools but without Map I can't downgrade
them to AutoCAD Civil.

Allen

[Sinc]

As a survey-only shop, there are a number of design tools we use extensively, chief among them are Corridors.

There are a number of C3D features we could really do without (we still haven't touched Pipes, we don't do hydrology, etc.), but there are many we need.

A shop that has both engineers and surveyors may be different, and may be able to get by with fewer features for Surveyors than we could manage as a Survey-only shop.

-- Sinc
http://www.ejsurveying.com
http://www.quux.biz (Sincpac-C3D)

[Anonymous]

if you have large sanitary/storm sewer profile asbuilts required for
subdivisions you may find civil 3d pipe networks worth your time. we are
survey/eng. company and our rls has found civil 3d pipe networks to be
useful.

wrote in message news:5947178@discussion.autodesk.com...
As a survey-only shop, there are a number of design tools we use
extensively, chief among them are Corridors.

There are a number of C3D features we could really do without (we still
haven't touched Pipes, we don't do hydrology, etc.), but there are many we
need.

A shop that has both engineers and surveyors may be different, and may be
able to get by with fewer features for Surveyors than we could manage as a
Survey-only shop.

-- Sinc
http://www.ejsurveying.com
http://www.quux.biz (Sincpac-C3D)

[Sinc]

It might be worth knowing how/why you use Pipe networks for asbuilts, and if it is something that makes sense when the pipe network is not already built by an engineer.

For our work, we have only gotten a C3D model for construction once. Typically, we build what we need from plans. Sometimes, we get electronic files, typically dumb linework produced in some software (not C3D) by an engineer at another company. But there is no pipe network already built for us to use for asbuilts. And so far, Pipes have seemed too complicated and time-intensive to deal with for little gain, since the design is already done, and we are merely building to completed construction plans. We typically use simple Alignments and Profiles for pipes.

However, if there is some significant reason to delve into pipes, I will do it.

[BrianHailey]

Allen,

We were expecting something along these lines from Autodesk but what they sent out doesn't seem to make sense. They are targeting surveyors in this AutoCAD Civil but they are taking out Map? I'm not a surveyor but it seems that a lot of the tools in Map can be very beneficial for surveyors.

Just me 2/100ths of $1.

Brian

www.cad-1.com