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Water Main Plan & Profile

13 REPLIES 13
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Message 1 of 14
black95gt
4042 Views, 13 Replies

Water Main Plan & Profile

I am doing my water main using the pipe networks. First off, is there a catalog for fire hydrants, valves, bends, ect? If not, how do i create them for my plan and profile? Second. How do i get the watermain to draw in at 6' below my proposed surface? It just wants to get on a slope and go. I tried putting my minimum cover setting to 6' and my max at 6' and that still didnt work. does anybody have any suggestions? by the way im still using 2006.

Thanks
Andy
13 REPLIES 13
Message 2 of 14
Anonymous
in reply to: black95gt

No, there is not a catalog for water fittings. Use your 2D symbols in plan
and rotate them manually. You mentioned symbols in profile. Are you required
to show fittings, hydrants, etc. in profile?

Trying setting your min/max slopes to arbitrary extremes such as -50% and
+50%

I have one client that simply draws their water lines as 2D polylines and
labels the fittings and hydrants using styles created with the
station/offset label command in alignments. I have another that uses pipes
only to lay out the water lines in plan and an assortment of null structures
for fittings and hydrant assemblies. This allows them to take advantage of
C3D labeling even though they still must manually insert and rotate their 2D
symbols. Of course, the 2D symbols must be moved and rotated again manually
should revisions be required.

--
Mike Norton
Total CAD Systems, Inc. - Houston, Texas

wrote in message news:5157873@discussion.autodesk.com...
I am doing my water main using the pipe networks. First off, is there a
catalog for fire hydrants, valves, bends, ect? If not, how do i create them
for my plan and profile? Second. How do i get the watermain to draw in at
6' below my proposed surface? It just wants to get on a slope and go. I
tried putting my minimum cover setting to 6' and my max at 6' and that
still didnt work. does anybody have any suggestions? by the way im still
using 2006.

Thanks
Andy
Message 3 of 14
CoolHand_Luke
in reply to: black95gt

We have also used the pipe network to show water mains, with null structures at grade breaks, fittings, etc. The drawback is that the pipes must be straight between structures. There is no way to have it follow a surface at a specified depth. All you can do is insert null structures periodically to approximate the surface.
Message 4 of 14
Anonymous
in reply to: black95gt

I know it may be no consolation now but 2007 fixes part of that. You can
drape a feature line on a surface, offset it vertically, and define it as a
pipe network.

--
Mike Norton
Total CAD Systems, Inc. - Houston, Texas

wrote in message news:5158235@discussion.autodesk.com...
We have also used the pipe network to show water mains, with null structures
at grade breaks, fittings, etc. The drawback is that the pipes must be
straight between structures. There is no way to have it follow a surface at
a specified depth. All you can do is insert null structures periodically to
approximate the surface.
Message 5 of 14

Why is there no catalog for water fittings? This makes no sense to me. What are people using? I am new to Civil 3D....are people creating their own? Can you? If so, why wouldn't Autodesk just provide them in the 1st place. Do they assume everyone is using individual water catchment (like I have at my house)? What's the scoop?

I am in the middle of my very first Civ3D project, a small subdivison (40 1-acres parcels) a main road/cul-de-sac and two smaller roads. I have completed my corridor and and exported my surface, now is the time to address utilities (WATER) and I am stuck.

Thanks,

Rebecca
Message 6 of 14
Anonymous
in reply to: black95gt

Because most people just use symbology to show water fittings, and not
actual structures. You can do that with the null structure and a part style.

--
James Wedding, P.E.
Engineered Efficiency, Inc.
Civil 3D 2006 SP2
XP Tablet, SP2, 2GHz, 1.5G
www.eng-eff.com
www.civil3d.com
Message 7 of 14

I'm sorry, please forgive me if this is obvious...I am new.

I am going to try using these "null structures."

Where do I find them? I looked in the network parts list of which I am using and null structure is listed. However, it is not listed under structures in the SAME parts list when I am in Network Layout Tools. What's going on?....see attached..
Message 8 of 14
Anonymous
in reply to: black95gt

A null structure is what C3D places at a pipe-to-pipe junction if nothing
else is placed there. It's not a structure you can select. If you draw a
pipe network using just the Draw Pipes option, it will place null structures
at any joints. This is also what will appear if you edit a network and join
a pipe to an existing pipe. In either case, you can simply change the
display style of the null to be a symbol of your choice.

HTH

--
James Wedding, P.E.
Engineered Efficiency, Inc.
Civil 3D 2006 SP2
XP Tablet, SP2, 2GHz, 1.5G
www.eng-eff.com
www.civil3d.com
Message 9 of 14

Much Mahalo's for your help (and patience). I see now that had the null structures all along! I just didn't realize it. I will play around with this and see how it goes.

Rebecca
Message 10 of 14
Anonymous
in reply to: black95gt

Hi, Rebecca

Before you run amuck with null structures try using your own symbols for the
waterline fittings. I created structure styles for fire hydrant assemblies,
valves, tees, etc. You can select your own symbol on the Plan tab of the
structure style dialog.

Also, it's quite easy to create structure label styles that match local
standards. (Around here folks like to stick a box around their water
callouts.) The symbols do not automatically align with the pipe - they must
be rotated manually. We were rotating them manually in Land Desktop so at
least we're not losing ground on production.

If you choose not to create label styles for every possible size combination
of pipes, valves, etc. the labels can be edited manually. And one more
thing...the labels open as label objects in Land Desktop GREATLY simplifying
Sheet Manager sheet styles. In case you never used the Sheet Manager in
Civil Design I included a little tutorial that might help.

--
Mike Norton
Total CAD Systems, Inc. - Houston, Texas

wrote in message news:5166262@discussion.autodesk.com...
Much Mahalo's for your help (and patience). I see now that had the null
structures all along! I just didn't realize it. I will play around with
this and see how it goes.

Rebecca
Message 11 of 14
Anonymous
in reply to: black95gt

I think we're in agreement here Mike. What structure type are you putting
underneath the symbols? Are you making actual structures? Probably a better
solution actually in that you could then size, etc, using swap part.

Hmmm have to ponder the water side some more....

--
James Wedding, P.E.
Engineered Efficiency, Inc.
Civil 3D 2006 SP2
XP Tablet, SP2, 2GHz, 1.5G
www.eng-eff.com
www.civil3d.com
Message 12 of 14
Anonymous
in reply to: black95gt

I randomly selected one. I use the Cylindrical Junction Structure NF for the
part family and created a different part size for each of the various
waterline fittings and/or assemblies. I attempted using the Partbuilder to
create simple plan structures to match my 2D symbols but had no success. As
I do not intend to show my "fittings" in profile it doesn't matter which
structure I select.

I include fittings for most pipe size combinations. Even though I use a
common symbol for all sized tees and one for all sized valves I still need
labels for each size and/or combination of sizes.

My plan labeling comes out very near complete except for placement. I simply
grip edit and go. Any label editing required I do either by editing the pipe
network in the Panorama or by editing the label directly.

I place my profile pipe labels by adding a single label at the desired
location - not by labeling the entire network at once. That would likely be
my number one wishlist item for pipes - have the program ignore null
structures in the definition of the pipe reach. In other words, consider
pipe between two structures as a single pipe regardless of how many vertices
are between the two structures.

I have more testing to do now that I'm on 2007. I am having a problem with
part masking in plan that I have yet to resolve. It may have something to do
with the symbols I am using.

I also spotted something in a demo this past week involving defining a pipe
network from a 3D polyline using the vertex elevations as flowlines. It
placed the pipe center at the vertex elevation rather than the flowline. Of
course, it could be the ol' OE factor rearing its ugly head. I'll post.

--
Mike Norton
Total CAD Systems, Inc. - Houston, Texas

"James Wedding" wrote in message
news:5166453@discussion.autodesk.com...
I think we're in agreement here Mike. What structure type are you putting
underneath the symbols? Are you making actual structures? Probably a better
solution actually in that you could then size, etc, using swap part.

Hmmm have to ponder the water side some more....

--
James Wedding, P.E.
Engineered Efficiency, Inc.
Civil 3D 2006 SP2
XP Tablet, SP2, 2GHz, 1.5G
www.eng-eff.com
www.civil3d.com
Message 13 of 14

Is there a way to insert a null structure as an after thought into an already created pipe network?
Message 14 of 14
josh.bullock
in reply to: black95gt

I just delete the structure which creates a null structure in its place.

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