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Use a Featureline OR Alignment as a Surface Boundary?

33 REPLIES 33
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Message 1 of 34
doni49
2757 Views, 33 Replies

Use a Featureline OR Alignment as a Surface Boundary?

Is there a way to use a featureline or an alignment as a surface boundary?



Don Ireland
Engineering Design Technician




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33 REPLIES 33
Message 2 of 34
doni49
in reply to: doni49

I just came across this tidbit in the 2010 help (I'm using 2012 but surely they didn't get rid of this capability).

 

http://docs.autodesk.com/CIVIL/2010/ENU/AutoCAD%20Civil%202010%20User%20Documentation/index.html?url...

 

Data Clip. Creates a surface boundary limited by a polygon
object from the drawing, such as 2D and 3D polylines, feature lines, survey
figures, parcels, and circles.

 

So now I'm back to wondering what I'm doing wrong.  I have a featureline (was created from an Alignment -- not sure if that matters) and I want to use is as a surface boundary.  Toolspace>Surface>Proposed (the desired surface)>Definition>Boundaries>Add>Select the featureline and it just keeps prompting me to select the boundary.  If I press enter after selecting it, the prompt just comes back again and if I it esc to get out of the command, the boundary is NOT created.



Don Ireland
Engineering Design Technician




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Message 3 of 34
jmayo-EE
in reply to: doni49

If the boundary is not closed or has overlapping segments or other basic pline issues the boundary may not work.

 

Try reducing the entity to a 2d poly and try again. If this fails recreate the boundary. Take the FLine, Explode, 3Dpoly to 2D (_AeccConvert3dPolys). PEdit to close. BO for a new boundary to be drawn. Erase old 2dpoly and add new boundary.
 
I have not used an alignment for a boundary (I have always been afraid to make a closed alignment 😮 ) but I use Flines very often w/o issue.
John Mayo, PE, CFM, CME
Message 4 of 34
doni49
in reply to: jmayo-EE

Hi John.  Thanks.  I'm starting to think is the "Autofeatureline" that was generated from the alignment.

 

I have a parking lot that's being regraded.  I wanted to make the proposed contours meet the existing contours at the Limit Of Construction (LOC) line -- but I'd like to keep it dynamic so that if the LOC line moves, the contours will follow.  So I made an alignment out of the LOC line then made a surface profile from the LOC line.  I then used the Feature Line from Alignment command to create the alignment from the LOC line.  Lastly, I added this FL to the proposed surface as a breakline.

 

This worked very well and the proposed contours hit the existing contours right at the LOC line.  But the triangles and contours went beyond the LOC line.  So when I tried to add the LOC featureline as the surface boundary and failed, I deleted unwanted triangles.  BUT if the LOC line moves, the unwanted triangles reappear.

 

So the only thing left in my quest to do this and make it dynamic is getting the boundary to follow this alignment.



Don Ireland
Engineering Design Technician




If a reply solves your issue, please remember to click on "Accept as Solution". This will help other users looking to solve a similar issue. Thank you.


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Message 5 of 34
jmayo-EE
in reply to: doni49

I would typically avoid the alignment part and just convert a closed pline to a FLine so I can use it as both a breakline and boundary.

 

Again, typically I just estimate the limit of grading/clearing/disturbance and refine it as the project moves forward with grip eidts, trims and joins.

John Mayo, PE, CFM, CME
Message 6 of 34
doni49
in reply to: jmayo-EE


jmayo wrote:

 

I would typically avoid the alignment part and just convert a closed pline to a FLine so I can use it as both a breakline and boundary.

 

Again, typically I just estimate the limit of grading/clearing/disturbance and refine it as the project moves forward with grip eidts, trims and joins.


The only reason I used the alignment was to get the FL to be dynamically linked to the surface elevation.  I previously tried to just make a FL and use the Elevation from Surface tool.  BUT that only put elevations at the vertices AND it wasn't dynamic.

This featureline from alignment works extremely well EXCEPT for the fact of the boundary issue.  So close but yet so far.  😞



Don Ireland
Engineering Design Technician




If a reply solves your issue, please remember to click on "Accept as Solution". This will help other users looking to solve a similar issue. Thank you.


Please do not send a PM asking for assistance. That's what the forums are for. This allows everyone to benefit from the question asked and the answers given.

Message 7 of 34
jmayo-EE
in reply to: doni49

"So close but yet so far.  :smileysad:"

 

Yeah I know. That dynamic link would be nice...

John Mayo, PE, CFM, CME
Message 8 of 34
john.mckenzie
in reply to: doni49

I am thoroughly confused. Could you create a grading object off from the edge of parking that would daylight to the existing surface and assign a feature line style to the daylight line that would represent the LOC? this would be dynamic.

Message 9 of 34
doni49
in reply to: john.mckenzie


@john.mckenzie wrote:

I am thoroughly confused. Could you create a grading object off from the edge of parking that would daylight to the existing surface and assign a feature line style to the daylight line that would represent the LOC? this would be dynamic.


That's what I originally tried to do but all I could get it to do is go from the EOC to the surface at a given slope.  I need it to meet the surface at a given distance from the EOC (regardless of what the slope is).



Don Ireland
Engineering Design Technician




If a reply solves your issue, please remember to click on "Accept as Solution". This will help other users looking to solve a similar issue. Thank you.


Please do not send a PM asking for assistance. That's what the forums are for. This allows everyone to benefit from the question asked and the answers given.

Message 10 of 34
jmayo-EE
in reply to: john.mckenzie

If you use gradings that should work fine. In theory...I have yet to trust them for production unless they are exploded.

John Mayo, PE, CFM, CME
Message 11 of 34
doni49
in reply to: jmayo-EE


@jmayo wrote:

If you use gradings that should work fine. In theory...I have yet to trust them for production unless they are exploded.


I'm not sure what you mean.  I already tried making a grading object that will do it but all I can find is a way to have it target the EG at a given slope which means the LOC will move horizontally.  In this case, the horizontal distance needs to remain constant and the slope needs to adjust to allow for it.

 



Don Ireland
Engineering Design Technician




If a reply solves your issue, please remember to click on "Accept as Solution". This will help other users looking to solve a similar issue. Thank you.


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Message 12 of 34
john.mckenzie
in reply to: jmayo-EE

Take the leap! I have an entire 105 acre landfill site with multiple project phases using grading objects. the key is work in multiple files keep your work clean and save often. Be organized. Rework can be challenging since you are now working with a jigsaw puzzle with a multitude of dynamic pieces. BUT it can be done, it just adds a few more pieces to the puzzle.

 

Keep the pieces concise in objective, relatively small in size, and your work organized.

 

I have had some objects blow up and the result looks horendous. BUT if you work in an organized fashion, you can track down the offending object and fix it. all the others will update and play nice afterward and the final plans will never realize that there was a problem.

 

Also, Keep milestone folders of objects as well as drawings. AND keep your objects in object files and not production drawing files. Data reference and xref. The key is organization. I know, a bit off topic.

 

And if you are scared to death to work this way, create an insurance policy with objects exploded in a just in case file until you are comfortable.

Message 13 of 34
jmayo-EE
in reply to: doni49

Not in this particular case Don but I believe this is one of the interned uses for gradings.

John Mayo, PE, CFM, CME
Message 14 of 34
john.mckenzie
in reply to: doni49

That would require drafting the LOC. Make a feature line and project to Existing. Add to surface as breakline. Keep original linewrork as option when creating feature line. Use that as boundary in surface.

 

When changes are made, erase the feature line. Tweak the surface boundary linework. Recreate feature line, add to surface again. semi painless but not automatic.

Message 15 of 34
jmayo-EE
in reply to: john.mckenzie

"Take the leap!"

 

If I lose work I will. Right out the highest window. 🙂

 

I am happy to hear of your success but I will need more convincing and testing. I have used Gradings long enough in LDD and C3D to know what they can do but we have had issues. I'm hoping to see continued stabilty for gradings in 2015 and beyond.

John Mayo, PE, CFM, CME
Message 16 of 34
doni49
in reply to: john.mckenzie


@john.mckenzie wrote:

That would require drafting the LOC. Make a feature line and project to Existing. Add to surface as breakline. Keep original linewrork as option when creating feature line. Use that as boundary in surface.

 

When changes are made, erase the feature line. Tweak the surface boundary linework. Recreate feature line, add to surface again. semi painless but not automatic.


I have the LOC already drafted.  It was orginally a PLINE (which is currently in a frozen layer).  But it's the "Project to Existing" part that I'm stumbling on.



Don Ireland
Engineering Design Technician




If a reply solves your issue, please remember to click on "Accept as Solution". This will help other users looking to solve a similar issue. Thank you.


Please do not send a PM asking for assistance. That's what the forums are for. This allows everyone to benefit from the question asked and the answers given.

Message 17 of 34
john.mckenzie
in reply to: doni49

OK Create feature line from object Pick object Click assign elevations (DO NOT ERASE ORIGINAL OBJECT) Pick Surface and make sure that it creates points at crossing triangles (terminology might be off a bit in my wording) it is a checkbox. You are done.
Message 18 of 34

This is all done in the create featue line from object dialog boxes. just in case all that text is confusing. I can add some graphics to this post if needed. Let me know.

Message 19 of 34
doni49
in reply to: doni49

Ok.  When I actually make the FL, I was overlooking the "create intermediate break points" option (I was creating the FL and then using the elevation from surface command and that just set the elevation at the vertices).  It's now creating the FL at the right elevations and I can use it as the surface boundary.

 

It would still be nice to be able to make it dynamic but I guess I can recreate the FL easily enough.

 

Thanks guys!



Don Ireland
Engineering Design Technician




If a reply solves your issue, please remember to click on "Accept as Solution". This will help other users looking to solve a similar issue. Thank you.


Please do not send a PM asking for assistance. That's what the forums are for. This allows everyone to benefit from the question asked and the answers given.

Message 20 of 34
doni49
in reply to: doni49

Just when I think it's solved.  😞

 

The contours/triangles look PERFECT -- EXCEPT they're still crossing the boundary.


The boundary is the VERY LAST edit made to the surface.  The LOC featureline is the blue-ish line to which I'm pointing in this screenshot.  Prior to my adding the boundary, this entire screenshot area was filled with triangles and contours.

 

SurfaceBoundary.png



Don Ireland
Engineering Design Technician




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