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Underwhelmed by Civil 3D 2014

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Message 1 of 100
neilyj666
3069 Views, 99 Replies

Underwhelmed by Civil 3D 2014

Anyone else a bit underwhelmed by the "new" features in Civil 3D 2014??Smiley Frustrated

 

http://www.autodesk.com/products/autodesk-autocad-civil-3d/features.type-new

 

If it has the Live Maps feature as vanilla AutoCAD does then as the maps etc can't apparently be printed this renders what could be a great feature almost useless (presumably it's a licensing thing) and don't get me started on the Geotechnical Module only being available in the Suite edition of Civil 3D.

 

Hopefully there have been a lot of changes "under the hood" that they don't boast about and now it doesn't crash using gradings and they've fixed the Quick Profile Bug etc etcSmiley Wink

 

Obvioulsy I'll need to wait until it is released before I can be more critical....

neilyj (No connection with Autodesk other than using the products in the real world)
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99 REPLIES 99
Message 61 of 100
troma
in reply to: rkmcswain


@rkmcswain wrote:

@sharshbarger wrote:

I don't want to see new features as much as I'd like to see the existing ones to work as they should. AFTER that, they can add new ones. 

 


Unfortunately, a sales promo for 2014 that reads "we fixed all the stuff that was broken or half baked in 2013/12/11" doesn't lead to many new sales.  

 

 


Would be a big selling point here!  Maybe not exactly the way you phrased it, but if they got specific about it: "We dug deep into this command and that feature and totally rewrote the code for that part to eradicate instabilities that some users were experiencing in the previous release.  We also changed this thing and that thing so that other tools now work as advertised, eliminating certain workarounds previously required.....We have added no new major features to this release, but we feel that all users will want to upgrade to take advantage of a program that is lighter and faster on its feet....."    Sure, I'd want it.  I'd beg for that release!

 

Does anyone buy the new version to get the new bells and whistles really?  Or they just get it because they need to keep up with the competition and the advancing file format?  On that subject, I give huge kudos to AutoDesk for finally stepping towards compatible file formats in consecutive releases, but for us that is a great reason not to bother upgrading to 2014.  We have 2013, why do we need to upgrade when we can open and work in a 2014 drawing?  I hope not too many take this approach, or they'll go back to making everything incompatible again, but this is the reality of the thought process that goes into upgrading.


Mark Green

Working on Civil 3D in Canada

Message 62 of 100
rutar
in reply to: troma

Im using Civil3D since it was born.  Before started deep into  Bentley InRail, but when C3D came to the market - 

it is  top design tool now.   

 

I can't say, that Civil is not suitable for me.  But, when I need to calculate Quantity  Take-offs, make Categoria file, - I  must learn XML files structures,  regional  differencies (Civil uses commas, in my country - semicolons), 

try change those files in Text Editor!  ,  don't forget  misplase any symbol -  if so - nothing work.  

OK, we made categoias, pay items, assigned to objects, calculated QTOs.   

 

Now we just want to see in our regional standard some report, to show it to our customers.  Here starts another puzzle. 

None of stock reports is not suitable for you? Dont worry - just please learn XSLT language, or .NET - and develop them by yourself.  Another way - copy paste to Excel, and do all formatting by yourself.   Is making of  simple Civil based XML editor is too complicated to developers? Why to "show the engine of car" to driver just "near the steereng wheel"?

 

The same thing with volume reports.  It is done great things - dynamic complicated models, you see cross-sections anywhere you want.  And you cannot export any data, except stock reports.  Why something like  this 100kB tool i mean Report Composer is too complicate to develop?  

 

We are living in XXI Century? isn't it?  It seems, like those developers, who developed C3D 2006-2008 are gone.

There is no "wow" anymore, but it could be!  Looks like, that product developing time were gone, managers pressed to developers - need start no sell, and we see civil3d without  those tiny but so important tools at the end of workflows. That fact make C3D useless to average users.  Beginners can use stock subassemblies, and copy/paste reports, edit in Excel. But if you want little bit complicated model - you need learn programming, and develop those tools by yourself. 

 

C3D finnaly started support railways - nice!  Why that turnout module is available like plug-in, not part of C3D? The idea of that plug-in is great, we need it, but it seems its like beta-testing right now.  Add  turnout constrains - to check design by software.  Make turnouts, as part of rail alignment  c3d objects - with ability to check design.

 

Geotechnical module appeared. Brilliant! We needed that since 2006.  Still remarkable that its not Civil3D team product,

but bought from outside.  UI styles, the way we work with software - just "little bit" another.  Again we must  edit CSV files, why not type-in into some DataGrid control, and save files to drive?  Want to update? - create new model from scratch. Old SDF database bring error, if you try change something. 

 

I'm end customer.  I see the great product, with great potential to evolve. (If AIM with nextgen render engine will have all C3D+ functionality I'll go over). But some little ommisions at the end of workflows (which could be repaired with 100-200kB of lines of code), and designers need to learn programming languages  because of this,  - "spolis great picture".  

 

What I'm amazing last years is DynamiteVSP -> CivilView evolution.  Really helps to visualize your design in very high quality in 3D Studio Max!

Message 63 of 100
rkmcswain
in reply to: troma


@troma wrote:  

 Would be a big selling point here!  .


I wasn't talking about upgrades, because you are (probably) already on subscription.

I'm talking about new sales.

R.K. McSwain     | CADpanacea | on twitter
Message 64 of 100
ksorsby
in reply to: rkmcswain

Virtually nothing in this release is interesting from what I can see, especially as they aren't advertising the fixing of busted commands and bizarre functionality.

I'd buy it if one of the New Whizzbang Features was "can now put surface name in the surface table title' or 'asking for 6 ranges in a volume gives you 6 ranges, not 8'.

 

Kevin

Message 65 of 100
ToddRogers-WPM
in reply to: ksorsby

I read Being Civil's blog this morning and they state that you can now target XREF's with corridors.  In my opinion this is a nice feature to have.  



Todd Rogers
BIM Manager
Blog | Twitter | LinkedIn

Message 66 of 100
rutar
in reply to: ToddRogers-WPM


@trogers wrote:

I read Being Civil's blog this morning and they state that you can now target XREF's with corridors.  In my opinion this is a nice feature to have.  


Agreed!

Message 67 of 100
neilyj666
in reply to: neilyj666

a nice feature for sure but after 12 months development is that it?

neilyj (No connection with Autodesk other than using the products in the real world)
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Message 68 of 100
ToddRogers-WPM
in reply to: neilyj666

LOL...that's the only one that stands out for now.



Todd Rogers
BIM Manager
Blog | Twitter | LinkedIn

Message 69 of 100
ksorsby
in reply to: neilyj666

"a nice feature for sure but after 12 months development is that it?"

 

This.

 

That said, I'd take no new features at all if they sorted out once and for all some of the ridiculous bugs.

Message 70 of 100
neilyj666
in reply to: neilyj666

yes me too, but as pointed out earlier in the thread, that wouldn't translate into new sales

neilyj (No connection with Autodesk other than using the products in the real world)
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Win 11 Pro x64, 1Tb Primary SSD, 1Tb Secondary SSD
64Gb RAM Intel(R) Xeon(R) W-11855M CPU @ 3.2GHz
NVIDIA RTX A5000 16Gb, Dual 27" Monitor, Dell Inspiron 7760
Message 71 of 100
troma
in reply to: neilyj666

I don't quite follow that logic.  If it's a new sale, all the C3D features are 'new features', for a person who hasn't used the program before.  What difference does it make if it's been part of the program for 10 years or is a brand-new idea?


Mark Green

Working on Civil 3D in Canada

Message 72 of 100
BMcAnney
in reply to: troma


@troma wrote:

I don't quite follow that logic.  If it's a new sale, all the C3D features are 'new features', for a person who hasn't used the program before.  What difference does it make if it's been part of the program for 10 years or is a brand-new idea?


Exactly. Someone who is not already using Civil 3D doesn't care what changed between the 2013 and 2014 releases, they care about what Civil 3D can do that their current solution does not do, regardless of when those features were added.

Message 73 of 100
ArchD
in reply to: troma

I would rather have them work relentlessly improving a current product for 3-5 years fixing bugs as well as adding new features before finally releasing it as a new product than just addinging new features each year while introducing new bugs. Not only do I believe they would have a better product, but they would also have a happier customer base.

 

For the most part, Autodesk users do not use every feature they add, and they don't see the features they add because of it. But due to the fact that many versions are not backwards compatible, we are forced to upgrade to a newer version practically every year. When we do, we might not see that one new feature they added since the previous release, but the many added bugs are very noticeable and fustrating to say the least.

 

The current model is: "Please a few while we upsetting the masses."

Archie Dodge
Applications Expert - Infrastructure Solutions Division
IMAGINiT Technologies
Message 74 of 100
Jasono2009
in reply to: ArchD

Well put. Their current business model is unsustainable and I believe will lead to reduced sales. I will not regurgitate all that's been covered here but it's stunning how a  software company can finagle customers to pay them thousands each year to develop their product. And to top it off they still can't fix glaring problems like the QTO manager, Mass Haul, reporting, etc., etc., etc....

Message 75 of 100
pne123
in reply to: Jasono2009

I skimmed this thread and a lot of the negative posts have a very narrow view.  There is a lot of reason updates might be needed.  A yearly schedule might be a bit much but since 2013 was released windows 8 has been released, new hardware developed and vanilla AutoCAD has been updated.  The software needs to be updated to insure that it is windows compatible.  Like the touch screen interface.  Vanilla AutoCAD is the foundation for many tier products not just civil 3d.  If Autodesk makes modifications to insure new functionality in plant 3d but did not release a new version of civil 3d to run on the new AutoCAD a lot of the same people would still complain that they are getting ignored and cannot use the new functionality.  We pay the subscription but do not always install every release and if we do we usually wait until the first service pack or hotfix.  The million dollar question is would you like to use the new features, that may lack some functionality, like pressure pipes that you know will be upgraded in a year or would you like to wait 4 yrs and use it then but lose the 3+ years of productivity and try to learn all new features at one time?  I will take the reduced functionality over nothing and I would like to spread out the learning curve over time.  

 

And on a side note, we have inroads and it is does not get used. 

Message 76 of 100
Jasono2009
in reply to: pne123

I could not disagree anymore. Your position is unfounded. When you say ".....lose the 3+ years of productivity..."  do you honestly mean that if I did not upgrade since 2011 that I would have lost anything in productivity? Let's see, I could still use Google Earth, the Mass Haul has not been fixed, QTO manager has not been fixed, reporting was never fixed, and I could go on. Bottom line: when you advertise a product as one thing and it turns out to be cronically another, that's false advertising. That's a slap in the face for the customers who develop their produce and pay thousands to do so. Try to discuss that point.

 

-Narrow minded

Message 77 of 100
pne123
in reply to: Jasono2009

Losing functionality on the new feature.  I used pressure pipes on several jobs.  Did it suck that I could not dataset the network into a new drawing, yes. Did it suck I could not put the data in to a table, yes.  Was it still better than using gravity piping, yes.  Will I be able to do those things in this new release, yes.  Will I have to learn, setup, and create styles in all in this new release, nope. Can I still use the pressure pipe feature and enjoy the new functionality, yep.

Message 78 of 100
sfore
in reply to: pne123

I think you're missing the point and the theme of this post....1 step forward, 2 steps back.  People want things to continue to work that once worked and/or people want things fixed that never worked but are advertised as working.

 

I wouldn't say a lot of the negative posts have a very narrow view.  Maybe some, but I'd say a lot of them are spot on.  I don't know about you, but I use just about every facet of Civil 3D in the various types of projects I work on.  I'm the one that has to answer for loss of time due to digging and figuring out why something that worked great in one version no longer works in the new version, like my infamous Point Cloud post.  I've even had Autodesk on the phone and was told development team is working on it.

 

We too wait until the first service pack or hotfix is released before implementation of a new version.  Not sure how long you've used C3D, but I've used it since 2006 with only 2 versions skipped (2009 and 2012) and I can say while I'll continue to use the program, it doesn't come without a lot of aggravation and time loss at the most inopertune times.  We know why Autodesk puts out releases every year - it's obvious, but trying to wrap my head around why Autodesk insists on putting out releases every year before it's ready and why things get broken from one version to the next is puzzling. 

Message 79 of 100
pne123
in reply to: pne123

Losing google earth was a bummer but I still have 2012 installed on my computer so it is no big deal.  If I recall that was google's issue with the licensing agreement not autodesk. 

Message 80 of 100
pne123
in reply to: pne123

I guess I have been lucky.  I moved over to C3d on its second or third release from LDD.  We do residential neighborhoods and commercial sites and have our own survey department.  I never had to use mass haul or point clouds so I have not had your frustration.  I do wish Autodesk products were more stable but after 20+ yrs I am used to the fatal errors and work arounds.  Maybe that is just sad on my part but I am not going to complain.  Our Bentley users have a more stable platform but they are just happy they finally got right click functionality.

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