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Umm, I thought jumping to 64 Bit & 8 gigs would result in increased performance?

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Message 1 of 19
n2itive
1268 Views, 18 Replies

Umm, I thought jumping to 64 Bit & 8 gigs would result in increased performance?

So, as of yesterday I finally convinced the powers to be that I needed windows 7 - 64 bit with more ram, they gave me 8 GB. I've since spent the entire day trying to get the 3d object viewer to function as well as it did prior this upgrade (or so I though it was an upgrade). I am also noticing that corridor editing is become a painful situation as well. I work for a local municipality so we're not talking about miles and miles of roadway. This was all working pretty well using 32 bit and 4 gb of ram last week. Now, the object viewer is useless and it's taking what feels like forever to update my corridor.

 

So far I have downloaded the most recent driver for my cheap graphics card, turned hardware accelerate on & off, played with model view display styles, double checked I have all updates installed, turned off my properties palette, turned off my layers manager, searched the forums for hours and in the end I'm ready to ask for my old pc back.

 

Any other suggestions on how to speed up C3D 2012, specifically regarding the object viewer and corridor building?

 

Here are my new specs: W7-64 bit, 8 GB ram, Dell optiplex 990 with i7-2600 CPU @ 3.40GHz, and a AMD Radeon HD 6450 graphics card.

 

 

Infrastructure Design Suite 2014
Civil 3D 2013 sp2
Windows 7 x 64, 16 GB
Intel Xeon @ 2.80 GHz
NVIDIA Quadro K2000
18 REPLIES 18
Message 2 of 19
thepworth
in reply to: n2itive

there are a number of threads on this (I think from "Patchy"?) that suggest things like tourning off the Windows Aero theme, changing the system paging file from dynamic to static at 2x your installed RAM.  Do a search and you should find several suggestions.

Message 3 of 19
blt
Advocate
in reply to: n2itive

You did install the 64 bit version of C3D?

 

 

Bryan Thorp, PLS
Civil 3D 2017 SP1
Dell OptiPlex 990 Workstation
Intel I7
16 Gig of RAM
Message 4 of 19
Joe-Bouza
in reply to: n2itive

This is a common misconception that "I got 64 bit - I should be lightning fast"... Not!

 

64 bit allows you to access more ram, the quality and speed of the other components and your system setting have a lot to do with it.

 

Its kinda  like getting a 100 gallon gas tank, the car wont go any faster, but does have increased capacity.

 

My first suggestion is turn off all the fancy win7 animation font rounding, yada yada. In computer properties

Then make sure HPQUICKPREVIEW is set to off

And if you are using Sheet Set Manager make sure SSMSHEETSTATUS is set to 1

 

I bet doing those 3 things helps some.

Thank you

Joseph D. Bouza, P.E. (one of 'THOSE' People)

HP Z210 Workstation
Intel Xeon CPU E31240 @ 3.30 Hz
12 GB Ram


Note: Its all Resistentialism, so keep calm and carry on

64 Bit Win10 OS
Message 5 of 19
Jeff_M
in reply to: n2itive

Did you install the VBA enabler? If so, uninstall it, if not, good. VBA is a 32 bit program so when it is used in 64bit Autocad it tends to bog down the whole system. If you have a need for it then I suggest porting those routines to .NET.

 

The biggest benefit of 64 bit C3D is the drastic reduction in the number of crashes you will encounter. How fast it runs is still largely dependent on your hardware and what else you have running at the same time.

Jeff_M, also a frequent Swamper
EESignature
Message 6 of 19
mathewkol
in reply to: n2itive

I don't know anything about your video card but you said it's cheap. The graphics card gets hit heavily with the object viewer. How good was the old one in comparison?

Another thing about RAM and 64 bit. What you had before, 32 bit on 4Gb is the same as 64 bit with 8Gb if yoi look at the specs for C3D. Of course, if your projects aren't large you're not maxing the RAM anyway.
Matt Kolberg
SolidCAD Professional Services
http://www.solidcad.ca /
Message 7 of 19
n2itive
in reply to: mathewkol

Thanks for the responses and suggestions. I'll give them all a go. My new pc has the same specs as the old one other than 64 bit and double the ram, same graphics card so I wasn't expecting it to be lightening fast but I was expecting some type of improvement. Besides the "stock" graphics card I would say I have a fairly decent setup. I surely wasn't expecting things to get worse.

 

I am hoping I see a reduction in the "not responding" time as you've mentioned above. That alone would probably keep me happy.

 

Thanks again.

 

Infrastructure Design Suite 2014
Civil 3D 2013 sp2
Windows 7 x 64, 16 GB
Intel Xeon @ 2.80 GHz
NVIDIA Quadro K2000
Message 8 of 19
Cadguru42
in reply to: mathewkol


@mathewkol wrote:
I don't know anything about your video card but you said it's cheap. The graphics card gets hit heavily with the object viewer. How good was the old one in comparison?

Another thing about RAM and 64 bit. What you had before, 32 bit on 4Gb is the same as 64 bit with 8Gb if yoi look at the specs for C3D. Of course, if your projects aren't large you're not maxing the RAM anyway.

Windows 32bit only can allow at max 4GB of memory per application.  Since 4GB is the max physical RAM that a 32 bit OS can use, the OS takes up roughly 1 to 1.5 GB of that 4GB.  You're left with 2.5GB to 3GB to be shared with every other program running.  Your virtual memory comes into play because of this.  Remember, though, that 4GB is the maximum that any 32 bit application can use distributed between physical and virtual memory. 

 

With 64 bit, there is virtualy no limit (It's like 128 terrabytes or something) to the amount of memory an application can use.  Even if you only have 4GB of phyiscal RAM on a 64 bit OS, as long as you have enough space on your virtual memory drive, you're basically unlimited.  Of course, virtual memory is much slower than physical RAM, so the more RAM the better.  I've had large and complex corridors with 328mb aerial photos and C3D only takes up about 1.8GB of memory.  

 

As to the OP, it sounds like a graphics driver problem regarding the object viewer.  I've never had good things to say for ATI cards in regards to Autodesk products.  Autodesk basically makes their software to work with Nvidia, even though they don't really state that.  Also, your storage drive has a lot to do with how well programs and Windows in general work.  I've got a solid state drive for my system drive and it makes C3D work extremely fast.  

 

I also work for a local government, so I understand your frustration with getting hardware.  However, don't let the IT department dictate what you need.  Your job is to design and/or produce civil engineering drawings.  Their job is to provide you the means to do that and keep it running.  If they're preventing you from getting the hardware you need to do your job, then they've failed at their job.

C3D 2022-2024
Windows 10 Pro
32GB RAM
Message 9 of 19
n2itive
in reply to: Cadguru42

So, after a couple days of testing I am really getting frustrated with this object viewer issue. I tend to use it quite often and for now it seems to be the main issue. I really don't understand how things could get worse by switching to 64 bit. I can open the same dwg on another workstation with the exact same specs, only running on 32 bit, and pan, zoom, rotate at will like I was accustom to. Once I do this using my new setup things are dreadfully slow, and my corridor turns into a cube when orbiting... From what I can tell all the 3d config settings are the same.  For me, it's these types of issues that really just irritate me.

 

Does anyone have alternative suggestions as to viewing corridor models and surfaces WITHOUT PURCHASING ADDITIONAL SOFTWARE? What other options are out there? How would I know if a better graphics  card would really make a difference considering the other work stations have the same or even older card than me yet they seem to be performing better than mine? My last question, since I would most likely purchase a new card on my own, would the Quadro 600 be better than the Readon HD6450 I currently have? Or is there any card similar in price ($150) that you would recommend? In the end I'm ok with using my own $150 if it makes my job less of a headache.

 

Thanks engrtech for some insight as well. I completely agree with your last statement and was wondering if I can use this as a supporting  document to my request? Smiley Wink I am still fairly new to this public sector animal that doesn't always seem to rely on common sense IMHO. It seems I'm always having to jump threw loops (or spend a year complaining) in order to get the point across. However on the other hand, considering how people are dropping off like flies around here, I'm somewhat content with not causing too much of a stir and just keeping my mouth shut.

 

Again thanks for all the comments and for letting me vent a little... I feel better now!

Infrastructure Design Suite 2014
Civil 3D 2013 sp2
Windows 7 x 64, 16 GB
Intel Xeon @ 2.80 GHz
NVIDIA Quadro K2000
Message 10 of 19
thepworth
in reply to: n2itive

I'm still on 2011 for the most part, so I'm not used to the "current" CUI, but....

 

There should be a 3D drafting workspace - not Civil, but 'basic' autocad 3D for solids.  There are different settings for rendering - conceptual, realistic, 2D wireframe 3D wireframe and a few others.  try going there and changing the visuailzation settings next is my next thought on this... sorry I don't have any other tricks without seeing your workstation.....

Message 11 of 19
Sinc
in reply to: n2itive

You installed 32-bit Win 7... ?

 

I suspect that's you're problem.  Win 7 hits your computer resources a lot harder than XP.  So if you're limiting it to 32-bit, you're probably forcing a lot more paging.  After all, 32-bit Win7 has much the same memory limitations as 32-bit XP.  It's better at memory management, but it also hits it harder.  I actually don't know why Microsoft even bothered creating 32-bit Win 7...  It was a major error, in my opinion.

 

The only recommendation I can offer is to turn off the "Aero" visibility themes in your Windows settings, and reverting back to the older themes.  That helps limit how many resources Windows itself is using, and may help you.  As it is, you're probably tapping out your resources.  32-bit Win 7 can't even see most of your RAM, and is limited to 4GB, so by using that OS, you wasted your money on your RAM upgrade.  BAD IT DEPARTMENT, for doing that to you!!!!

Sinc
Message 12 of 19
sboon
in reply to: Sinc

I would almost bet that your problems are related to the video driver installed on your new system.  I have recently upgraded from Vista 32 to a Win 7-64 system.  I had a lot of trouble with display flickering, hangs and crashes until I located the certified driver on the Nvidia site to replace the one supplied by Dell.

 

Edit: After reading your specs, we have almost exactly the same system except that ours have NVidia Quadro 600 cards.

Steve
Expert Elite Alumnus
Message 13 of 19
Sinc
in reply to: sboon

I tend to think the key point is the "Windows 7 x 32 (Trust me, I lobbied against this)" in the sig.  That means that the OP is using 32-bit Windows, which means 32-bit C3D, despite the "jumping to 64 Bit" in the topic title.

 

As of C3D 2011, I don't think ANYONE should be using the 32-bit version.  And if you go up to Win7, go 64-bit.  The 32-bit version is a complete waste of money, and in my opinion, should never have even been released by Microsoft.

Sinc
Message 14 of 19
n2itive
in reply to: Sinc

No Sinc, as my original post says I finally got them to get me win7x64 bit and 8 gigs of ram. My complaint is that my previous pc (w/ win7x32) along with all the other pc's in the office are noticeable faster when it comes to viewing 3d objects and corridor modeling when comparing the exact same dwg.

 

I will say things did improve after downloading a new driver for the graphics card. Prior to this the object viewer was useless. So, thanks for that suggestion!

 

I have tried all the other suggestions as well. I am pretty positive I installed c3d 64 bit however, I can't seem to find anywhere that confirms either version. I guess there's always the possibility so...

 

Idk, you hear all this talk on this forum about how you have to have wind 7 x 64 and honestly I haven't noticed any advantage or time saving performance. Actually, I've noticed just the opposite. Now, I look like the idiot who spent the last year whining about how I NEEDED w7-64. It's pretty embarrassing when you have to walk into the assistant city engineers office (the one person who finally made your upgrade possible) and ask to use his pc for a moment. I guess the saying "if it aint broke, don't fix it" really applies here! haha oh well.

 

Thanks again everyone... now I'll spend the next year lobbing for an updated graphics card!

 

Shane

Infrastructure Design Suite 2014
Civil 3D 2013 sp2
Windows 7 x 64, 16 GB
Intel Xeon @ 2.80 GHz
NVIDIA Quadro K2000
Message 15 of 19
mathewkol
in reply to: Sinc

You installed the 64 bit version because you can't not install it when using a 64 bit OS .  The 64 bit C3D is automatically installed.

Matt Kolberg
SolidCAD Professional Services
http://www.solidcad.ca /
Message 16 of 19
Cadguru42
in reply to: mathewkol


@mathewkol wrote:

You installed the 64 bit version because you can't not install it when using a 64 bit OS .  The 64 bit C3D is automatically installed.


I could be wrong, but if you download the 32 bit version I thought it could be installed on a 64 bit machine?  I know 32 bit programs work on 64 bit Windows, so I would assume that it's possible to install the 32 bit version of C3D on 64 bit Windows.

 

Regardless, the OP's problem stems from the graphics slowing things down.  It's not the computer itself, but probably a combination of using an ATI gaming card and the drivers not being optimized for Autocad.  I also use the object viewer daily to make sure our survey figures, surfaces, corridors, etc., look correct.  I generally do not have an issue with doing this, except in 2013.  For some reason the object viewer has the UCS different than the model space which causes me some confusion when trying to orbit around my objects, but I've just learned to live with it.

C3D 2022-2024
Windows 10 Pro
32GB RAM
Message 17 of 19
Jeff_M
in reply to: Cadguru42


@engrtech wrote:

@mathewkol wrote:

You installed the 64 bit version because you can't not install it when using a 64 bit OS .  The 64 bit C3D is automatically installed.


I could be wrong, but if you download the 32 bit version I thought it could be installed on a 64 bit machine?  I know 32 bit programs work on 64 bit Windows, so I would assume that it's possible to install the 32 bit version of C3D on 64 bit Windows.

 


The Installer for C3D will not allow this. Now, if one were to REALLY want to install it, there are workarounds out there that may allow you to do so....but I'm not sure why you'd want to.

Jeff_M, also a frequent Swamper
EESignature
Message 18 of 19
Neilw_05
in reply to: Jeff_M

FYI,

 

I am using the same video card as you. I haven't been using C3D to any extent however so I can't comment on the performance when using the Object Viewer with large corridors, although it has always seemd doggy to me.

 

A simple way to verify that you have the 64 bit version installed is to look in the Windows programs folders. 32 bit apps go in the Program Files (x86) folder, 64 bit papps go in the Program Files folder. If you see it in the latter then you know you have the 64 bit installed.

Neil Wilson (a.k.a. neilw)
AEC Collection/C3D 2024, LDT 2004, Power Civil v8i SS1
WIN 10 64 PRO

http://www.sec-landmgt.com
Message 19 of 19
AllenJessup
in reply to: n2itive

If your graphics card allow it. Try deactivating Adaptive Degradation. It helps a lot with the Object viewer and other 3D viewing.

 

AD.PNG

 

Allen



Allen Jessup
Engineering Specialist / CAD Manager

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