Trouble with Aligning Different Subassemblies at an Intersection

[bryancollins3174]

I am having an troublesome issue with my Corridor.  It involves the intersection of a main road alignment and a secondary road. Thing is my main road has a 6' shoulder whereas my secondary road doesn't have a shoulder at all. I used the Intersection Wizard to create the Intersection, but the two templates don't align. Without the shoulder the ditches don't line up. I tried drawing a polyline between the two ditches and targeting it and that worked, but then realized that going from 6' shoulder to no shoulder wasn't working either so when I tried to target a polyline from the 6' shoulder to the edge of pavement all kind of stuff happened that didn't make sense to me. Not sure how I should go about solving this issue. Also I'm going from 66' R/W on the main road to a 50' R/W on the secondary road.

I've attached some screen grabs and will post more screen grabs as necessary/requested.

Riverview Rd is the Main Rd and Renew Rd is the Secondary Rd for reference.

[sboon]

I am assuming that you want to taper the first link to the right of the assembly centerline (the brown one) from normal width down to zero as you go around the curve.  I can see the white curve you have drawn in plan and I'm guessing that is your control line.  Which subassemblies are you using in this corridor?

Steve
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[bryancollins3174]

Steve,

Yes I would like to taper from normal 6' sholder width down to zero shoulder width as it rounds the intersection curve.

The main road (Riverview) full section assembly is made of following Subassemblies: LanesuperelevationAOR, ShoulderVerticalSubbase, LinkWidthAndSlope, LinkWidthAndSlope, DaylightInsideROW

The secondary road (Renew) full section assembly is made of following Subassemblies: LanesuperelevationAOR, LinkWidthAndSlope, LinkWidthAndSlope, DaylightInsideROW

The secondary road (Renew) Curb Return Fillet is made of following Subassemblies: LanesuperelevationAOR (to the left of the crown angled away), ShoulderVerticalSubbase, LinkWidthAndSlope, LinkWidthAndSlope, DaylightMaxOffset (which I might need to change to DaylightInsideROW as well)

See the 2nd previously attached image for Renew Curb Return Fillets.

[sboon]

So the brown link which I'm assuming you want to taper is the unpaved portion of ShoulderVerticalSubbase - correct?

Looking at the help file for that sub, it appears that you cannot control that width using a target parameter.  You may want to replace it with something else.

Steve
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[bryancollins3174]

Steve,

What Subassembly would you recommend over the current one being used? It was the only one that I ran across that allowed me to have a Grass/Unpaved Shoulder and I tried a few of them. I just zeroed out everything for the Paved part and used the Unpaved part of the Subassembly.

Thanks.

[sboon]

LinkWidthAndSlope should work, since you're not using it to create road structure.  Just change the point and link codes to suit.

Steve
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[bryancollins3174]

What do you mean change the Point and Link Codes to suit?

[sboon]

Look at the help file for the shoulder sub.  Down at the bottom is the coding diagram.  In this case you're trying to use a generic sub to replicate the L2 link and the P3 point.  If you want the LinkWidthAndSlope to create the same feature lines, and have the same look in your corridor then you'll need to change the codes to match.

Steve
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[fcernst]

Shoulders have structure. Typically base and gravel, topsoil...

The Generic subassemblies will not give you a proper Datum for earthwork, nor correct material quantities.

Just use a Lane AOR subassembly for your shoulders in the curb return assembly and be able to transition it wherever you want.

[bryancollins3174]

Okay I changed the Renew Curb Fillets Assembly to use the LinkWidthAndSlope Subassembly for the grass shoulder. I also changed the P2 and Top,Datum codes to P3 and L2 per your instructions. When I rebuilt the corridor the plan view shoulder line changed from reddish brown color to a magenta color. Is that supposed to happen if I changed the codes properly? Or were you referring to how the Cross Sections would look? I haven't created Cross Sections for the secondary road yet so no clue on that part.

[sboon]

Not quite.  L2 and P3 are the names used within the subassembly.  The codes assigned to them are listed just above the diagram.

[bryancollins3174]

Confused. See attached to see what I set in the SA properties. If this isn't correct then what do I to change it or adjust the Codes that go with the Point/Links?

[sboon]

The point code would be ES_Unpaved and the Link codes would be Top,Datum.

Steve
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[bryancollins3174]

I just read what Fred posted. Will using the LinkWidthAndSlope SA mess up my volumes and/or Cut/Fill? I used it for my ditches as well.

[bryancollins3174]

Thanks for clearing that up for me Steve. Okay I fixed the point and link codes and the reddish brown colors match up. I then went and targeted the white curved line, but something isn't right. Please see attached. Targeting the white line pushed a second ditch into the road itself. Man this corridor stuff is confusing.

[sboon]

Not necessarily.  It all depends on what your cross section is supposed to look like.  Currently you should have a paved shoulder structure, and then the unpaved shoulder that we're trying to change the width of.  Fred is pointing out that the unpaved shoulder link we're using has no thickness to it, so there won't be any gravel structure in this area.

What does your typical section look like?  Is there supposed to be gravel shoulder?

Steve
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[bryancollins3174]

No, out design calls for a grass shoulder only. Did you see the other problem I posted right after this question?

[fcernst]

Everything in Civil engineering has structure, even grass. We can not leave subgrade bare anywhere due to erosion.

We do not seed subgrade, because it won't grow properly.

Grass needs 6" min. of topsoil structure to grow properly, resist our calculated shear stresses imposed by flowing water, and prevent erosion.

[sboon]

Trying to answer two at once here...

Are you sure that you're targeting correctly?  Looking at the daylight lines it seems that it's not matching properly at the side road.

Steve
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[bryancollins3174]

Yeah you were right Steve, my Targeting was off. I've corrected it somewhat. See attached image. On the left side I fixed it and then added in a Target for the Daylight, but as you can see no room to put a ditch and daylight inside the R/W. On the right side I'm not sure why the ditches still aren't lining up properly. Can't figure out why there is a jut out like that.