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TRANSFER POINTS

16 REPLIES 16
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Message 1 of 17
sakers
526 Views, 16 Replies

TRANSFER POINTS

WHEN WE TOOK THE CICVIL3D CLASS THE INSTRUCTOR SAID SURVEY POINTS COULD NOT BE MOVED OR ROTATED ONCE THEY WERE INSERTED INTO A DRAWING.  OUR SURVEY DEPT. USES THIS EXCUSE TO REMIAN ON OLDER VERSIONS (LAND), AND SINCE, I'VE KEPT MY EYE OPEN FOR ANY ROUTINE THAT MAY ALLOW MOVE/ROTATE OF ANY SURVEY POINTS.  I RECENTLY DISCOVERD THE "TRANSFER POINTS" UNDER THE POINTS IMPORT/EXPORT POINTS PULL DOWN ROUTINE AND HAVE EXPERIMENTED WITH IT SOME. IT WOULD APPEAR ITS MEANT TO USE THE CANNED COORDINATE SYSTEMS

AND NOT FOR USER COORDINTES AND ROTATIONS.

Q: IS IT TRUE SURVEY POINTS CAN NOT BE ROTATED/MOVED STILL?

Q: IS "TRANSFER POINTS" WHAT I'M LOOKING FOR TO CHANGE THE NORTHING AND EASTINGS FOR POINTS?

 

THANKS

STAN

16 REPLIES 16
Message 2 of 17
ToddRogers-WPM
in reply to: sakers

If the points are brought into the drawing through a survey database, then they are locked and cannot be moved or rotated unless you unlock them or do a transformation.



Todd Rogers
BIM Manager
Blog | Twitter | LinkedIn

Message 3 of 17
Joe-Bouza
in reply to: sakers

Then someone should call autodesk and have them remove the option to do so.

 

mrotat01.png

 

mrotat02.png

Thank you

Joseph D. Bouza, P.E. (one of 'THOSE' People)

HP Z210 Workstation
Intel Xeon CPU E31240 @ 3.30 Hz
12 GB Ram


Note: Its all Resistentialism, so keep calm and carry on

64 Bit Win10 OS
Message 4 of 17
ToddRogers-WPM
in reply to: Joe-Bouza

Joe, I think he is referring to moving and rotating based on assumed coordinates.



Todd Rogers
BIM Manager
Blog | Twitter | LinkedIn

Message 5 of 17
Joe-Bouza
in reply to: ToddRogers-WPM

Ok I see what you mean, but thats not exactly what the op said
Thank you

Joseph D. Bouza, P.E. (one of 'THOSE' People)

HP Z210 Workstation
Intel Xeon CPU E31240 @ 3.30 Hz
12 GB Ram


Note: Its all Resistentialism, so keep calm and carry on

64 Bit Win10 OS
Message 6 of 17
ToddRogers-WPM
in reply to: Joe-Bouza

True.  Even if you brought points into the drawing through a survey database, you still get the option to move it with the grip rollover, but it will not move.



Todd Rogers
BIM Manager
Blog | Twitter | LinkedIn

Message 7 of 17

What we've found is if you simply erase the points and then do an UNDO command the points will return and you can then simply move/rotate them.

We've done this quite a few times with good success - just make sure you check your survey database units if your setup is anything like ours - you'll need to change it from International Feet to US Survey Foot. With that being said;

The method we've come to use is the erase/undo.

The other method we did for a couple weeks was to write the points out to a text file and then re-import them (with US Survey Foot being set).

We've also become accustomed to taking all the figures and copying any that need to be breaklines onto a SRF-EG-FLT layer. Then flattening all 2d type linework (utilities, buildings, etc...) The reason we flatten our building linework is because our survey crews will sometimes shoot them direct and the elevation we'd get was 6-8 feet above existing ground.

Anyway...I've gotten away from the answer about how to move/rotate your points based on a coordinate you need/know them to be at.

Erase/Undo.

Try that and let us know...

Message 8 of 17

This actually does work.  But it loses its relationship to the survey database; which is a good thing because it does not affect the database unless you import points from the current drawing back into the database.



Todd Rogers
BIM Manager
Blog | Twitter | LinkedIn

Message 9 of 17

Fix the raw data and takeoff info, and re-import the data.

Eric Collins, P.Tech.(Eng.)

Win 10
Intel i7 9700 @ 3 GHz
16 GB RAM
Civil 3D 2019
Message 10 of 17
sakers
in reply to: sakers

OCCASIONALLY OUR SURVEY CREWS MAKE MISTAKES IN THE FIELD USING A WRONG BACKSITE FOR INSTANCE.  AFTER DOWNLOADING THE POINTS THE PROBLEM IS DISCOVERED AND PART OR ALL THE POINTS NEED TO BE ROTATED AND/OR MOVED TO THIER CORRECT LOCATION.  THIS WOULD BE A MASS EDIT TO THE POINTS.

 

I ASSUME THERES NOT BEEN A ROUTINE TO DO THIS.  I HAD HOPED ONE WOULD BE WRITTEN FOR LATER VERSIONS....2010,2011,2012...ETC.

I'M STILL USING CIVIL3D 2009.

Message 11 of 17
ericcollins6932
in reply to: sakers

If the wrong backsite is used, normally one can edit the backsight info and azimuth, and re-compute coordinates. It shouldn't be that difficult to fix the data I would hope.

Eric Collins, P.Tech.(Eng.)

Win 10
Intel i7 9700 @ 3 GHz
16 GB RAM
Civil 3D 2019
Message 12 of 17
ToddRogers-WPM
in reply to: sakers

That can all be edited in the setups under the survey database...

 

4-4-2012_8-46-10_AM.png



Todd Rogers
BIM Manager
Blog | Twitter | LinkedIn

Message 13 of 17
ToddRogers-WPM
in reply to: sakers

4-4-2012_8-46-10_AM.png



Todd Rogers
BIM Manager
Blog | Twitter | LinkedIn

Message 14 of 17
KirkNoonan
in reply to: sakers

Try right-clicking on the opened survey database name in tool space. You will find the translate database command. THat allows you to move and rotate the whole database. You can also change the vertical datum. If you have a bad shot (rod height, backsight point, etc.) you can edit the setup to fix the bad points. Once you get usaed to the different workflow, it is not bad. The other C3D features definitely outweigh the drawbacks. (My 2-cents)

Message 15 of 17
sakers
in reply to: BtimmermanMMS

THANKS TO EVERYBODY FOR THEIR INPUT.  I USED THE ERASE/UNDO AND TO MY SUPRISE IT WORKED!!

I ALSO TRIED IT WITHOUT AN ERASE/UNDO AND THAT WORKED AS WELL.

SO I AM JUST PUZZELED WHY I CAN MOVE/ROTATE POINTS NOW AND FOR THE LAST

FIVE YEARS WE'VE NOT BEEN ABLE TO DO THAT.

 

SO NOW I GOT TO GET OUR SURVEY DEPT. TO LEARN THE SURVEY MODULE.....LOTS A LUCK WITH THAT.

 

 

Message 16 of 17
_Hathaway
in reply to: ericcollins6932

I assume the OP is importing .txt or .csv files through the survey database.  By using this method you cannot move the points, they are locked.   When we first made the move to C3D we also found this annoying.....in LDD you could move the point around much easier so I feel for your survey crews.  That said, they need to move out of the past and into the present.  Knowing that your survey points can't be moved is much more of a benefit than a hindrance.  You know longer have to worry about them, once there in the drawing/database they are in, end of story.

 

It sounds like your crews need to edit there RAW data on occassion, as most crews do.  The old (LDD) way may have been to move a range of points up or down to fix a bad HR/HI, or to rotate them around the correct backsight, etc.  In fact, your RAW suvey data should be updated to reflect the proper values and then reimported.  Once you and your crews wrap your head around getting the data right before you input it into CAD you'll be $ ahead.

 

 

If you import your points through the points>import/export points menu and not the survey database you have the ability to do whatever you want with your points, similar to LDD days.

 

I would not recommend the erase/undo method as this has the possibility to create huge issues in the future and anyone trying to follow in your footsteps.

Message 17 of 17
tcorey
in reply to: sakers

Hello Stan,

 

Whoever "trained" you gave you some bad information. It is perfectly easy to rotate survey points that have been brought into a drawing.

 

You can use Eric Collins' suggestion, which is what I prefer, or you can use Todd Rogers' suggestion, which is perfectly legitimate but does not address the underlying issue of your import event still having incorrect information.

 

To those of you who do Civil 3D training, a piece of advice: If you don't know the answer, don't say it can't be done, say you don't know. It's hard to say that -- you're being paid to be the expert -- but no one knows everything and your clients will understand that. There are few things more annoying than thinking something can't be done, only to find out later that it can but you just believed the instructor.

 

If you're paying for training and the instructor dismisses a question with no it can't be done, don't believe it. There is a solution to almost anything you want to do with Civil 3D. It might be a workaround, but you can almost always get the job done.

 

Best regards,

 

Tim

 



Tim Corey
MicroCAD Training and Consulting, Inc.
Redding, CA
Autodesk Gold Reseller

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