Totally new to civil 3d and LOST...please help me

[Rubixcube10]

I haven't used Autocad since 2002.  Since then I've used Eagle Point and Carlson for all my surveying projects.  Then had to switch jobs due to the economy and the new company bought Autocad Civil 3D 2011 a month before I arrived.  No one knows how to use it and I'm supposed to figure this out.  This seems to be like another language compared to what I'm accustomed to.  I've been ripping my hair out trying to figure this thing out and getting no where and ready to give up.  I have so many questions but just don't know where to start.  All I have to do at the new place is make Topo maps.  Back in the day all I had to do was create a simple Field code library, Import the points.  Make sure all break lines were connected.  Make a perimeter around the shots and configure a TIN model.  Then waalaa....topo created.

Now I don't even know where to start....

What exactly is a survey network?  Is it similiar to the field code library?  I noticed people talk about description keys also so I'm guessing the survey network is not the same as a description key list.  Is it a master list that I use for all future drawings or do I have to make a new survey network for each job?

How do I exactly import/export my jobs from and to my Ranger Data Collector?  I'm going on month 3 here at work and I'm starting to pile up jobs on the DC.  Only allowed a few days in the office trying to figure things out.

What is a point group and why am I supposed to create this?

What's the easiest way to make a Topo map?  I've been through tutorials but they have me do things backwards to what I'm used to.  Like I've said, I used to bring in the points, create my breaklines then TIN model it.  Now the tutorials have me making a TIN first without breaklines, then creating breakline lists after the contours are in to fix the contours.

How do I create a field code library (description key list) and export it into my Ranger Data Collector so it will automatically start drawing lines in the DC for the field to finish?  Also get my Field codes into the right layer with the right line type and/or breakline type.  Everything was so easy 10 years ago.  This new way seems so hard to me.

I've been through turtorials and read non stop online with help and tips.  Tutorials completed but don't know exactly what is going on.  Was hoping someone can understand what I'm going through and help me out on this crazy adventure of Autocad Civil 3D.  I have way more questions but I'll stick with these for now. 

[stacy.dunn]

Ideally you attend training classes from your re-seller or other source. 

If the company can't pay for training I would get copies of Introducing Civil 3d 2011 and Mastering Civl 3d 2011.

"What exactly is a survey network?  Is it similiar to the field code library?  I noticed people talk about description keys also so I'm guessing the survey network is not the same as a description key list.  Is it a master list that I use for all future drawings or do I have to make a new survey network for each job?"

A survey network is a representation of your field data.  This is useful when importing raw data into your survey database.  It depicts your traverse and side shots graphically and dynamically responds to editing.  If you only import coordinate files, this is pretty useless and not necessary for anything topo related

"How do I exactly import/export my jobs from and to my Ranger Data Collector?  I'm going on month 3 here at work and I'm starting to pile up jobs on the DC.  Only allowed a few days in the office trying to figure things out."

 I would use the software that came with it such as Foresight DXM or Active Sync to download the files.  You can use a Civil 3D addon available from Topcon to do this if you don’t  have the other software.

"What is a point group and why am I supposed to create this?"

Point groups are merely saved lists of points in your drawing or survey database.  They are useful in selecting points for export and also for controlling their appearance.

"What's the easiest way to make a Topo map?  I've been through tutorials but they have me do things backwards to what I'm used to.  Like I've said, I used to bring in the points, create my breaklines then TIN model it.  Now the tutorials have me making a TIN first without breaklines, then creating breakline lists after the contours are in to fix the contours."

Create a surface and then add data such as points and breaklines to it.  You are still doing the same thing as you were before, but now the steps are a little different.

 "How do I create a field code library (description key list) and export it into my Ranger Data Collector so it will automatically start drawing lines in the DC for the field to finish?  Also get my Field codes into the right layer with the right line type and/or breakline type.  Everything was so easy 10 years ago.  This new way seems so hard to me."

Linework in Civil 3D is controlled by command codes in the description field of your point.  The code set library is similar to the screen in Eaglepoint where you set your line code designations.  You tell it what to use for start, stop, close, curve, etc.

The appearance of the linework is controlled by the figure prefix database.  This is were you set the line code, specify the layer, line style, etc.

The description keys control how points are sorted on import.

If you are familiar with Eagle Point, they offer add-ons to Civil 3d that may be easier for you to get up to speed with.  You are correct that this seems harder at first, but after you learn the software, much of the time you spent drafting like you did 10 years ago will not be necessary.

[mathewkol]

Your boss seriously needs to send you to a training class.  Even better, the company should embark on an implementation process rather than simple training.  A competent reseller or other contractor can be worth well more than the cost of the training alone in terms of your personal headaches trying to figure the software out and for the company in terms of actually being successful and using the software in an efficient manner within a reasonable amount of time.

You see, a lot of companies try to implement an entirely new piece of software without doing their homework first only to fail or struggle for a long time in the meantime losing far more money that by paying for some help in the outset.  This sounds like a similar situation could be happening to your company.

There are several things that must happen for the company to be successful:

1. A DWT needs to be created.  This can take an experienced C3D expert up to a week to create.  For you, with no experience...you don't want to know.
2. Styles training.  C3D is built on styles and if you don't know how to create them, you'll be floundering sooner or later even if you have the DWT created by someone else.
3. C3D basics training.  A formal class, ideally.  Typical class length is 3 to 5 days.
4. Ongoing support.  Typically a time-based call-as-you-need-help solution.  This one isn't a MUST, but it sure can help you get over a roadblock in a hurry just by picking up the phone.
5. Lowered expectations.  After all of the above has been done, projects WILL NOT be finished as fast as they used to be.  You can't be a pro guitarist after a 4 day class; you can't be an expert in C3D after a 4 day class.  How long will it take to get good?  Depends on how fast you learn, how often you use the features, how many features you actually need on a day to day basis, how resistant you are to change, a bunch of stuff.  Could be a month, could be a year.

Of course all of this will cost money and time.  Enough that many companies balk at it and attempt the process on their own.  Getting help from a professional outside source will make the process faster and you'll suffer far fewer headaches along the way.  Remember, though, that it will cost time and money doing it on your own too.  Lots more time.  And the money from lost revenue while you are blowing through the budget trying to figure out how to do...whatever it is you're stuck on.

Good luck.

[SteveAdams8888]

Rubix,

The way to eat an elephant is.........one bite at a time.

C3d is tame-able. You will prolly come to like it, especially if you have to. Deal with your obstacles one-at-a-time. There is an answer for every question that you have. This Board is a fantastic resource.

I recommend installing it at home. During the day, when you encounter a problem, send yourself an email to your house to investigate further at night.

Styles: try copying some of the standard ones, and edit them until you can get them the way you want. C3d is powerful stuff, but becomes friendlier with experience.

Point Groups are good ways to manipulate points that have certain characteristics. For example, you can create a pts group of "soft" topo shots, and assign a point label style which only displays elevations to the nearest tenth. You can do that by creating a new pt group, and under the "Include" tab, tell it to include all pts which have a certain description (i.e. whatever your "ground shots" code is.

Survey Networks: I am new like you, and have not gotten into those yet, but I have not needed them for contouring yet. I made up a little tutorial for myself on Contouring (it's on my computer at work) and will post it tomorrow in case that will be helpful.

F2F: My boss has put about a weeks worth of work so far into creating one, and is getting close. Might want to save that one for later, after you conquer some other things.

Good luck,

Steve

[Rubixcube10]

A survey network is a representation of your field data.  This is useful when importing raw data into your survey database.  It depicts your traverse and side shots graphically and dynamically responds to editing.  If you only import coordinate files, this is pretty useless and not necessary for anything topo related

Ok. So basically I can skip the survey network step to continue on with my work if I only import coordinate files?

 I would use the software that came with it such as Foresight DXM or Active Sync to download the files.  You can use a Civil 3D addon available from Topcon to do this if you don’t  have the other software.

I've installed Foresight DXM and have played around with it.  Do I just download from the DC using DXM but not import it into the job file?  Or import it into DXM then convert the file to something else to import it into autocad.  I noticed Autocad doensn't recognize the .JOB files.  In also noticed when I open a project file I can change the color and linetype of my layers but when I open a new job file I can only add layers but not change anything else on the layer (color or linetype).  I tried setting up a field code library on DXM, actually thought I did it but couldn't use what I made in another job.

Point groups are merely saved lists of points in your drawing or survey database.  They are useful in selecting points for export and also for controlling their appearance.

This answer helped me understand a little more on Point groups

Create a surface and then add data such as points and breaklines to it.  You are still doing the same thing as you were before, but now the steps are a little different.

Ok

Linework in Civil 3D is controlled by command codes in the description field of your point.  The code set library is similar to the screen in Eaglepoint where you set your line code designations.  You tell it what to use for start, stop, close, curve, etc.

The appearance of the linework is controlled by the figure prefix database.  This is were you set the line code, specify the layer, line style, etc.

The description keys control how points are sorted on import.

If you are familiar with Eagle Point, they offer add-ons to Civil 3d that may be easier for you to get up to speed with.  You are correct that this seems harder at first, but after you learn the software, much of the time you spent drafting like you did 10 years ago will not be necessary.

Unfortunetly I used an older Eagle Point (1995) before the field to finish was ever created.  But still was able to use Field Code Library and what layer they would go to.  I finally had the opportunity use auto linework when I worked with the Carlson 2007.  Carlson actually never had us use the start, stop method but clearly understand what you're are explaining.

Thank you for your time in trying to help me get a better grasp on all this.

[Rubixcube10]

A survey network is a representation of your field data.  This is useful when importing raw data into your survey database.  It depicts your traverse and side shots graphically and dynamically responds to editing.  If you only import coordinate files, this is pretty useless and not necessary for anything topo related

Ok. So basically I can skip the survey network step to continue on with my work if I only import coordinate files?

 I would use the software that came with it such as Foresight DXM or Active Sync to download the files.  You can use a Civil 3D addon available from Topcon to do this if you don’t  have the other software.

I've installed Foresight DXM and have played around with it.  Do I just download from the DC using DXM but not import it into the job file?  Or import it into DXM then convert the file to something else to import it into autocad.  I noticed Autocad doensn't recognize the .JOB files.  In also noticed when I open a project file I can change the color and linetype of my layers but when I open a new job file I can only add layers but not change anything else on the layer (color or linetype).  I tried setting up a field code library on DXM, actually thought I did it but couldn't use what I made in another job.

Point groups are merely saved lists of points in your drawing or survey database.  They are useful in selecting points for export and also for controlling their appearance.

This answer helped me understand a little more on Point groups

Create a surface and then add data such as points and breaklines to it.  You are still doing the same thing as you were before, but now the steps are a little different.

Ok

Linework in Civil 3D is controlled by command codes in the description field of your point.  The code set library is similar to the screen in Eaglepoint where you set your line code designations.  You tell it what to use for start, stop, close, curve, etc.

The appearance of the linework is controlled by the figure prefix database.  This is were you set the line code, specify the layer, line style, etc.

The description keys control how points are sorted on import.

If you are familiar with Eagle Point, they offer add-ons to Civil 3d that may be easier for you to get up to speed with.  You are correct that this seems harder at first, but after you learn the software, much of the time you spent drafting like you did 10 years ago will not be necessary.

Unfortunetly I used an older Eagle Point (1995) before the field to finish was ever created.  But still was able to use Field Code Library and what layer they would go to.  I finally had the opportunity use auto linework when I worked with the Carlson 2007.  Carlson actually never had us use the start, stop method but clearly understand what you're are explaining.

Thank you for your time in trying to help me get a better grasp on all this.

[SteveAdams8888 · Accepted solution]

this is just my little cheat sheet:

C3d
2010 Contouring

• create a database
  in the project folder, call it “database” :

  Toolspace/Survey/rt-click
  Survey Databases/new database

• create a Local
  database folder: make a sub-folder with the job name

• set the working
  folder to that job name folder: Toolspace/Survey/rt-click Survey
  Databases/Set working Folder

• unflatten the pts
  if necessary: Settings tab/Point Styles/Steve/Edit/3d Geometry
  tab/use pt elevation

• draw a pline
  boundary around the pts

• create a pt group

• create surface:
  Pull-down menu/Surfaces/Create Surface (make sure you change the
  Style to something other than “Standard”

• assign the pt group
  and boundary to the surface: Toolspace/Prospector/Surfaces/open
  your named surface/Definition/Point groups-rt-click and pick “add”

            then rt-click
Boundaries and click “add” (select your bdy pline)

• you may need to
  rt-click on your named surface and click “rebuild”, or you may
  not have to

• you should now see the
  contours

• to edit contour
  layers, linetypes, smoothing, etc: Prospector/Surfaces/rt-click
  on named surface/Edit Surface Style/Contours tab. You will see a
  slider for the contour smoothing, and above that are icons to click
  which will open layer settings, etc

• to add breaklines:
  Toolspace/Prospector/Surfaces/open your named
  surface/Definition/rt-click on Breaklines and click “add”, then
  pick a pline (must be a pline) for the breakline

• to label contours:
  Pull-down menu/Surfaces/Add Surface Labels/Add Surface Labels/Label
  Type/Multiple at Interval/Pick or edit your desired Styles

• to change Precision of
  Contour Label: click on a contour label to get Properties/choose the
  component called “Surface Contour Label Style” and hot the
  drop-down list for “Create/Edit”/then edit the style to have the
  desired precision. Do that by opening up Compent 1 and open up the
  Contents. Then choose your Precision.

• to get rid of line thru contour labels:
  running thru contour labels: pick the “contour label group” and
  in the Properties palette, under the Label heading: Display Contour
  Labeling Line = False

• BETTER YET:

Toolspace>Settings, right click on Surface>Edit feature
Settings>Contour Labeling Defaults>Display Contour Label line
= False

[neilyj666 · Accepted solution]

The "Mastering...." book is very good but the AutoCAD Civil 3D 2011 Essentials by Eric Chappell is also worth a look if you are just starting out as it does the basics but doesn't delve too deeply (which is where "Mastering...." is good).

The tutorials are also very good (http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/index?siteID=123112&id=16766674) and you should also check out YouTube.

As alluded to in previous posts, you will need to put in a lot of personal effort to get to grips with Civil 3D

[Civil3Dguide]

It sounds like you would be better off using a video book. Printed books are old school, there are better options. Not that the books mentioned are not great! But I know what you mean about reading a huge book. We have these on our site. cloudDVD 

Civil3Dguide

[learner12345]

Thank you guys!

Your answers helped me too.