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To Vault or Not to Vault?

34 REPLIES 34
Reply
Message 1 of 35
Anonymous
253 Views, 34 Replies

To Vault or Not to Vault?

Anyone have any ideas on this question? Personally, I'm going to
initially shy away from Vault and continue to use Data Shortcuts. It'll
be enough for us just to learn the new C3D features without being confused
by the Vault functions. Plus it sounds like we need a MS SQL server
unless someone else can tell me that it works with open-source database
like MySQL. $$$
34 REPLIES 34
Message 2 of 35
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

I have a similar distrust of rolling out vault.
Little different situation here.
Currently our SQL server is running pretty full and we don't want to put any more load on it.
Need another SQL server another windows server 2003 license and hardware.
Or we can take the other SQL box up to enterprise SQL , at a phenomenal fee and buy CAL's. All to deploy in my mind an unproven product.

John Postlewait
IS Department
George Butler Associates, Inc.
Message 3 of 35
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

My understanding is that it can use MySQL. I plan to look into that, but
have not done so, yet.

.....I believe this is correct information, but do not take it as gospel.

"David Dixon" wrote in message
news:5161381@discussion.autodesk.com...
Anyone have any ideas on this question? Personally, I'm going to
initially shy away from Vault and continue to use Data Shortcuts. It'll
be enough for us just to learn the new C3D features without being confused
by the Vault functions. Plus it sounds like we need a MS SQL server
unless someone else can tell me that it works with open-source database
like MySQL. $$$
Message 4 of 35
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

vault only runs on SQL Server, MSDE or SQL Server Express 2005. Both MSDE
and SQL Server Express 2005 are free and included with Vault. Vault does
NOT run on MySQL.


"TomD" wrote in message
news:5161549@discussion.autodesk.com...
My understanding is that it can use MySQL. I plan to look into that, but
have not done so, yet.

.....I believe this is correct information, but do not take it as gospel.

"David Dixon" wrote in message
news:5161381@discussion.autodesk.com...
Anyone have any ideas on this question? Personally, I'm going to
initially shy away from Vault and continue to use Data Shortcuts. It'll
be enough for us just to learn the new C3D features without being confused
by the Vault functions. Plus it sounds like we need a MS SQL server
unless someone else can tell me that it works with open-source database
like MySQL. $$$
Message 5 of 35
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

You are going to have difficulty using data shortcuts. Data shortcuts in
existing projects will still work, but there is no UI to create new ones.
All of the project-management aspects of the program are Vault only. You
could always roll your own and create your shortcuts manually, but I
wouldn't recommend it.

Jon Rizzo
Langan Engineering and Environmental Services, Inc.


wrote in message news:5161444@discussion.autodesk.com...
I have a similar distrust of rolling out vault.
Little different situation here.
Currently our SQL server is running pretty full and we don't want to put any
more load on it.
Need another SQL server another windows server 2003 license and hardware.
Or we can take the other SQL box up to enterprise SQL , at a phenomenal fee
and buy CAL's. All to deploy in my mind an unproven product.

John Postlewait
IS Department
George Butler Associates, Inc.
Message 6 of 35
mmccall
in reply to: Anonymous

If one chooses to run 2007 without the vault installed will there be a huge loss of functionality?
Message 7 of 35
kevincurrey
in reply to: Anonymous

Data shortcuts can still be created (contrary to what is said above) by going to the general menu -> data shortcuts -> edit data shortcuts, and using the command in the panorama window.
There is a big problem with data shortcuts though.
In order to use them in another drawing, you have to export them to an xml file. You import that xml file into the drawing you want references in (via the same panorama window). You create your references, and they look good. Now save and close the drawing.
Now comes the problem: Open it up again, and all your shortcuts are "broken." If you look in the panorama window again, you'll see it doesn't list the shortcuts there. So to get them to come back, you have to import that darn xml file again.
So to sum it up, EVERY TIME you open a drawing with references, you have to re-import the shortcut xml file for those references to be visible. Which means that data shortcuts are essentially unusable, and you have no choice but to go to vault and MS SQL.
Message 8 of 35
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

Not if you work alone...


wrote in message news:5161537@discussion.autodesk.com...
If one chooses to run 2007 without the vault installed will there be a huge
loss of functionality?
Message 9 of 35
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

Jon, my truth detector just redlined.
This is shaping up to be quite the upgrade.
First I'm faced with spiraling subscription costs for a product that isn't ready for production use.
Then I'm told that if you are going to implement you are going to have to get someone in to help.
Then the unexpected Dollar bomb of another SQL server to use the no longer available data shortcuts.
Now I find out I won't be able to plot directly to my plotters until they are reformatted.
And I'm an idiot if I roll this product out for at least 6 month's because of the dwg format change.
Please don't think I'm shouting at you Jon, from everything I've heard from people I trust you're good people. I'm just blowing off some steam.

John Postlewait
IS Department
George Butler Associates

xcuse me I'm done here, I got to go rant about the Revit Revolution I have to deal with also.
Message 10 of 35
mmccall
in reply to: Anonymous

Well, I do for the most part. I'm the solo CAD jockey in a firm of five. (the others are PEs and PPs) I'm also the IT dept. I just checked my 2003 server with SBE and it already has MSSQL installed and running so I should be fine. I'm glad my employers agreed with me on the server investment when we opened shop last year but I can definitely see this requirement irritating many small firms.
Message 11 of 35
kevincurrey
in reply to: Anonymous

Hope you're not depending on small biz server for a website or email, 'cause everything I've been hearing about vault is that it won't get along with either.
Message 12 of 35
mmccall
in reply to: Anonymous

We do, in addition storing all our files, it hosts an intranet site (that we don't use), and Exchange mail services.

What are some alternative was of fulfilling this SQL requirement other than a full blown server? Can a single workstation run an SQL service for itself if there is only one seat of C3D to service? or maybe an older workstation attached to the network running the service for a small installation of seats?
Message 13 of 35
kevincurrey
in reply to: Anonymous

This is exactly what we're planning on doing. Either using a little bit older workstation, or possibly running a VM on our server. Problem is, I don't know anything about virtual machine, but I intend to learn a lot about it this week.
Message 14 of 35
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

WOW!!! Thanks for all the responses; much to ponder. I'm surprised to
hear that Data Shortcuts do not work as in 2006. I'll have to try this
for myself later in the week. I just installed C3D 07 today without the
Autodesk Data Management enabled. I just want to jump in and start using
the design tools, not spend time being a database manager. Since we are
eventually going to be installed across about 20 people, we'll have to
work out the sharing information process. We might be forced into using
Vault after all. Hopefully eventually, our architectural and building
systems friends will be able to follow us into this data management system
too.

Thanks to all,
David Dixon
Clark Nexsen, Architecture & Engineering
Norfolk, Virginia USA

On Tue, 02 May 2006 15:07:52 -0400, David Dixon wrote:

> Anyone have any ideas on this question? Personally, I'm going to
> initially shy away from Vault and continue to use Data Shortcuts. It'll
> be enough for us just to learn the new C3D features without being
> confused
> by the Vault functions. Plus it sounds like we need a MS SQL server
> unless someone else can tell me that it works with open-source database
> like MySQL. $$$
Message 15 of 35
adamsonk
in reply to: Anonymous

I haven't actually used vault but one thing that strikes me when anyone has mentioned using MSDE is the size limitation. The free version of MSDE has a 2 Gig limit on size. Our CAD files, Land Desktop files, etc on our server right now total over 60 gig. With file sizes in the 2-20 meg range with civil 3D I don't see MSDE being a valid alternative for long with most firms without upgrading to the full license of SQL Server. Message was edited by: adamsonk
Message 16 of 35
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

Vault's db is actually only storing pointers and change records, not the dwg
or other data.

2G is a lot of one line pointers, so the ~10 user limit is more of a concern
for most shops.

--
James Wedding, P.E.
Engineered Efficiency, Inc.
Civil 3D 2006 SP2
XP Tablet, SP2, 2GHz, 1.5G
www.eng-eff.com
www.civil3d.com
Message 17 of 35
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

Vault can be upgraded to SQL Server Express 2005, which comes with Vault.
SSE does not have an artificial performance throttle like MSDE, so as a
result it can handle a few more users. I don't know how many more, since it
is still a free database, but performance should be better with more than 10
people or so. 🙂

Jon Rizzo
Langan Engineering and Environmental Services, Inc.



"James Wedding" wrote in message
news:5161873@discussion.autodesk.com...
Vault's db is actually only storing pointers and change records, not the dwg
or other data.

2G is a lot of one line pointers, so the ~10 user limit is more of a concern
for most shops.

--
James Wedding, P.E.
Engineered Efficiency, Inc.
Civil 3D 2006 SP2
XP Tablet, SP2, 2GHz, 1.5G
www.eng-eff.com
www.civil3d.com
Message 18 of 35
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

It's one of those things, isn't it? No one really knows where the ceiling
is, but you sure as heck don't want to run into it.

--
James Wedding, P.E.
Engineered Efficiency, Inc.
Civil 3D 2006 SP2
XP Tablet, SP2, 2GHz, 1.5G
www.eng-eff.com
www.civil3d.com
Message 19 of 35
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

One of the presenters at BootCamp said that it would.......hmmmm.......Adesk
comment?

IMO, this is NOT a minor issue............there are some folks out here
using MySQL and this could be a huge issue.

"Jon Rizzo" wrote in message
news:5161561@discussion.autodesk.com...
vault only runs on SQL Server, MSDE or SQL Server Express 2005. Both MSDE
and SQL Server Express 2005 are free and included with Vault. Vault does
NOT run on MySQL.
Message 20 of 35
kevincurrey
in reply to: Anonymous

Has anyone here addressed the issue of vault & xrefs yet? Specifically how would you use sheet set manager with a project in vault? What I have been able to come up with so far is that I probably only want to have my data drawings in the vault, and have everything else reference the "working copy" outside of vault. But it seems like this could get hairy if you want to keep all your drawings on a server (as opposed to C:\Civil 3D Projects, or whatever).

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