I'd like feedback as to whether you "Insert" or "XERF" your title blocks into paper space for setting up sheets. What are the compelling arguments either way?
If the title block is shared across multiple files then you'll want to use an XREF. If within a single file then a block works fine.
If you have any reason to expect the project will evolve into multiple files for certain drawing sets then you'd save yourself a lot of re-work to start with XREF'd borders and title blocks.
We have a very fixed, static title block and border, so we insert it as a block into each sheet, but the Project Name, Sheet Numbers, etc. are inserted using Fields so we can update them via the Sheet Set Manager. It works well for us.
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In theory, when the title block is an XREF the linework (e.g. company logo) can be udpated in one location without needing to update all drawings. You would still need a block insert to handle the attributes though. But there are a few short-comings with that method. Radical changes to the appearace will require changing the inserted block with attributes on every drawings anyways. You also need to handle legacy drawings as well - does that old drawing point to the right XREF? If the XREF contents have changed but the file is still in the same place, the legacy drawing won't look the same as it was officially issued.
Almost all of our clients use straight-up block inserts. One uses the XREF + insert scheme.
I've never used the Xref method but the Insert method works well for me as I have populated the block with field attributes/properties for use in Sheet Set Manager
neilyj (No connection with Autodesk other than using the products in the real world)
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We use a combination of both. Anything that appears on every sheet is in a drawing that is xrefed. All the components that are unique to each sheet are inserted as a block. The block contains attributes, which may have fields referencing sheet set properties.
Our "Title Block" is just linework. So we don't insert or x-ref. It's drawn in a template drawing and we just insert a layout from template, so all the linework is there.
We have Mtext with fields to reference Sheet Set data. These are easier to deal with than blocks in the half of our projects that don't use sheet sets; we can just edit the Mtext, delete the field and write what we need.
Mark Green
Working on Civil 3D in Canada
we do both block and xref. xref in the title block linework, project name, date, job number, drafter, etc. block in sheet title, page number, etc. once it's all set up in your drawing templates it's easy peasy. it's sucks having to change the date manually on 100 sheets.
we use the xref title block. We often have revision notes that need to update on all sheets and the xref'd title block works great for this. also if a sheet is added and we now have 20 sheets instead of 19 we just open the title block for that set of drawings change 19 to 20 and save and it's updated to all the sheets. now if there was just a way to have it update to the already plotted plts or pfs that would be awesome 🙂
We speciify template .dwt files for our title blocks. The template file has an xref for the linework, blocks for the logos, etc and an attribute block for title block text.
We have had several complete changes to title block content and layout over the years, and used numerous lisp routines to allow updating of the xref, changing logos and updating/moving attribute information so all drawings look the same.
Being an xref means we can also copy that file to the specific project directory, and make title block changes that apply only to that project, like adding client logos and information.
On this video you can see the hole explanation
I also believe a block is the best way to go.
I recently started with a company that does a lot of Federal DFD and USACE work. Apparently those CAD standards require a reference for the title block.
I find that very frustrating.
The default settings are: Options>Plot and Publish>Specify plot offset relative to>Printable area
The title block xref comes in at (0,0) , which is at the edge of PRINTABLE AREA. So now, the block is shifted by (0.79,0.79) because the insertion point is at the edge of paper, not printable area. We should be able to just plot by Layout...however, some people insist on using Window. They then snap to the edges of the title xref and now they just changed the (0,0) location in paper space. So, when you flip through a plan set, the border shifts around depending on who plotted the sheets. It is also frustrating to have (0,0) thrown off because now if you do need to xref something in, it no longer comes in exactly where you intend. I just wish we could all get on the same page
I'm in the xref camp. At this point for clarity of language I call the Title block the attributes and the line work the Border. the The boarder has all static info and the Title block gets filled in.
For control the Border is Xref and the Title block is inserted.
Its what works for you, this works for me
Joe Bouza
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I've using the block method. Its a dynamic block that can reshape itself for different sheet sizes (18x24, 22x34x 24x36 & 30x42). Any 'text' in the block that can change is an attribute.
This block is preloaded into my template drawings along with viewports, graphic scales, and any typical notes, tables, etc. that is anticipated to be used in that drawing sheet. The default attribute values are set to fields that pull info from the sheet set manager, some standard ones and some custom. The the drawing scale attribute has a field set to pull the scale of the viewport that was pre-inserted in the template. The graphic scale has fields linked to the viewport as well. All a user needs to do is to start a drawing from one a template drawings, save it, then add its tabs to the sheet set manager, align and scale the viewport ... lock the friggin viewport!. The template drawings have their tabs pre-named with the anticipated sheet title which get pushed to the SSM when the layout is added. The viewports already have their layer states set (even xrefed layers and overrides). Xrefs are pre-xrefed and waiting for the user to define the file location.
I use that method for any drawing set that is 3 sheets or more. Less than that the title block is manually edited by just holding down the ctrl key while double-clicking the attribute and they'll edit in place as if they were mtext. Just overwrite the field with static info.
I do have a second titleblock for the smaller sheets. All the same attributes, just a different format that fits 8.5x11,8.5x14, 11x17 and 17x11. Another dynamic block that reshapes.
Logo or address updates are fairly simple. Edit the master, insert & redefine. All attributes and field stay intact.
Ok, I went a little too far, but I wanted to show how it integrated into the process.
To me the theory of Xreffing titleblocks is from the old days when you tried to keep the drawing size as small as possible. Today the amount of entities in the titleblock if fairly meaningless as far as drawing size goes.
I've set up all out borders and titles as layouts in a DWT. They contain fields for the info that can be extracted from the drawing. The user can start from a DWT without the layouts and create layouts in their drawing From Template or start with all the layouts and delete the ones they don't need. That usually depends on how complicated the project is.
Since in most cases we create a drawing just for the layouts with the basemap and design xrefed. The plot drawing is usually one of the smallest. We don't use SSM because it doesn't usually fit the way we do things.
Allen Jessup
CAD Manager - Designer
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I do all the same except the border and global static info is xrefed ( that too is dynamic as is the TB block). I recently have been woringon a set in excess of 200 sheets and the stake holder changed their logo. Glad we only updated the one file.
Joe Bouza
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@dgorsman wrote:
In theory, when the title block is an XREF the linework (e.g. company logo) can be udpated in one location without needing to update all drawings. You would still need a block insert to handle the attributes though. But there are a few short-comings with that method. Radical changes to the appearace will require changing the inserted block with attributes on every drawings anyways. You also need to handle legacy drawings as well - does that old drawing point to the right XREF? If the XREF contents have changed but the file is still in the same place, the legacy drawing won't look the same as it was officially issued.
Almost all of our clients use straight-up block inserts. One uses the XREF + insert scheme.
Old thread, I know.
Anyway, I would solve that by saving the title block for that project with that project. If modifications are done, it stays with that project only. If none, that's fine, too. But, it solves the legacy problem. I would not x-ref from a central source.
I found using Fields and Sheet Set Manager made my cad files a lot larger. Is this the case with you as well or am I doing something wrong?