Time to learn C3D with training vs.no training

[Neilw_05]

I realize this is a highly subjective topic but I would like to get some feedback from those who have experience with these 2 paths so I can present it to management.

Considering we are still in a slow period in our area, management is not wanting to spend resources to train me. Some time ago they allowed me to spend maybe several weeks going through tutorials and the Mastering book. I have also spent a considerable amount of my own time exploring it at home. While I have gained a pretty good understanding of how most of it works, I have only used the software in a very limited capacity in our current production workflow. Bear in mind that we have been using LDT 2004 up until now so I have only limited exposure to all the enhancements to Autocad and Map since then as well.

So now when I am faced with a new task where C3D should be a great time saver I am reluctant to use it because I am afraid I'll encounter problems with the software and get bogged down in looking for workarounds. I've already encountered issues with point clouds, HEC RAS export/import, profile bands, file format conversion, pipes and more. It is not enough to know how the tools work. We also need to know what works and what doesn't.

This is where having experienced support is essential but I don't want to recommend getting training if all it will do is teach me what I already know. What we really need is support for live projects as we go. Yet I don't see us spending a lot of money for support on a case by case basis considering the budget constraints we have.

We have time but no money, yet the amount of time it is taking to learn is agonizingly slow. So what is the best solution?

[deltacoolguy]

You probably cannot tell from the questions I have been posting of late, but I have over 20 years experience in Acad/LDD, going back to DCA.  I was very good and very productive with LDD.  I've only been doing Civil 3D for just over a year, though.  And because I am now self-employed as an independent contractor I own only Civil 3D and do not have my own access to LDD like I did when employed as a traditional employee.  Hence, for me it's been sink or swim.

Most things I can figure out on my own, albeit not always efficiently time-wise.  (I do not charge clients for time spent learning the new techniques)  I have two books that have been a great help.  This forum has probably been my best resource.  I find the Acad C3D help files to be hit-and-miss.

I did get 4 days worth of training when I bought the product, and it has been a great help, but it was only a start.  I have done most of the tutorials.  But, both here and past experience with LDD upgrades, nothing beats doing an actual real live project.  Most tutorials have simple easy "projects" with simple easy solutions.  Virtually everything in the real world has at least one weird nuance that tutorials and books don't cover.  Especially when trying to fit in new reconstruction while retaining old improvements in the same project, and having them all fit together.  I have learned more, and faster, doing my real work projects than anywhere else.

My questions here have been simplistic at times, and I feel bad when they are.  One person even commented as such, and I felt like such a noob, yet I was learning on the fly as well.  They're often born out of frustration because I have to get work accomplished and some little nagging thing is thwarting me.  There are times that I find Civil 3D to be wonderful, and times that I think it could be more intuitive.  I do feel that, over time, the wonderful part will take over.

I know I didn't necessarily answer the OP's question, but I hope I contributed something of value.

[BrianHailey]

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@deltacoolguy wrote:

My questions here have been simplistic at times, and I feel bad when they are.  One person even commented as such, and I felt like such a noob, yet I was learning on the fly as well.  They're often born out of frustration because I have to get work accomplished and some little nagging thing is thwarting me. 

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They may be simplistic to some but when it's stopping you from completing your work, they are far from simplistic. Don't feel bad about asking questions here. A lot of the time, however, you can find the answer quicker with a quick search on Google. When that turns up empty, ask the question here.

[rfg018]

I have been around since day one, I have train myself.  Here are my questions.

1) if you do not know what you want to do or what the software does, then you need training.  Using the softaware most user whom has problem does know that the software does this.

2) IF your user can not state what comments to use, the you need training.

3) If you can not ask for help then you need trainning,  This site and many other have solutions, you need to know how to ask.

4)  Can you retain everything.  IF you tak a class, then the will overwhelm you and you get nothing.

5) do you need to know everthing before you start.  I have user whom think they need to read all the books, before they can start.  Quesation, why do you need to know 3d modlering if your are never going to use it?

My solutions:

1) do a little reading, find out what the differents are and what tools/commands you have.  You may find out it very similar to what you are already doing.  

2) start working on a project, using what you know and what you have learn in #1.

3)  add more 3d items as you go.  Example: I may label spot elevation with my old 2005 blocks, Then would creat one elevation style, to label some of the spot elevation. and then build on this.  Now I used all style for the spot elevations.

4) do more reading to see if their are better solutions and tips.  One person solution may not fit your type of work.  Youtube also has some good solutions and tips,  Example:  I learn a great tip the other day.  Autodesk add "path" to the "array" comment.

5)  Try commands that didn't work before.  I have users whom if a command didn't work in autocad 13, they will not try in C3D 2012.

6) do more reading, look,  same as 4.

I think Autocad is to complex to learn in one, I'm been using it since ???, and I'm still learning.

My 2 cents

[engqld]

From my personal experience I started at a company after leaving school and was given a training text book and a week to learn how to use Civil 3D then was givin my first job for operational works one into two. I came accross issues with errors that are more progamming bugs then anything else. Two years later another trainee started and he couldn't learn from a text book so we sent him off to get 3 day course in civil 3D end story he is still useless but with the experience on the job he learns a little more. Its more about learning shortcuts and commands over time and sure they can show you some thing but enless you do it all the time you forget

[Sinc]

I agree that a lot of being a "C3D Master" is how many bugs you know about, and how many workarounds you know.  Unfortunately, that changes every year, making it very hard both to learn C3D, and to train new users in C3D.  I very much wish we had a program without so many issues.  I can use it very effectively, but I'm also constantly frustrated at learning "yet another bug/workaround".