Thinking about converting to Civil 3D

[Anonymous]

I work for a surveying/engineering firm. One licensed surveyor, three surveyors and one civil engineer. The surveying department do ALTAs, property surveys, topos, boundary surveys, mortgage requests. etc. The engineering department does site design, pipe network designs, grading. All of the surveyors uses Softdesk and Land Desktop 3 to process the survey information they get from the field and converts it into information the engineer can use

We are thinking about using Civil 3D but the management has concerns about compatibility issues.

Below are some of the concerns/fears the management has:

Will Civil 3D recognize old Softdesk points?

Will Civil 3D recognize old Land Desktop points, ASCI files, topos, contours?

Once these old Softdesk points or Land Desktop points are converted to Civil 3D points, can Land Desktop still use them?

-WindyCityEngineer

[Sinc]

Yes, C3D will recognize the Softdesk points.

Yes, C3D will recognize your Land Desktop stuff.

No, it's a one-way trip.  Once you convert old drawings to C3D, they are C3D drawings, and can no longer be used in Land Desktop.  On the plus side, once you get through the (rather hefty) learning curve for C3D, you won't WANT to use Land Desktop...  🙂

[Anonymous]

Another thing to consider is that Land Desktop is now a dead app and no longer supported by ADSK.  Many of your peers have already migrated, and many more are in process.  Within 3 years, you will no longer be competitive in the engineering field.  You may still be able to do surveys, but you will have a terrible time transferring data from/to another shop.

If you do convert to C3d, treat it as a completely new program and budget training into the process.  Otherwise you'll waste time & money trying to do things like you used to and not the most productive way in C3d.  LDC and C3d have never been "survey friendly".  They were designed by engineers and survey has been treated as a **** stepchild.  It's been slowly getting better, but it's still not a package embraced by surveyors with all the tools they like.  Although I don;t have it, if you plan on using C3d for survey work, I would highly recommend SincPac for C3d by Quux software.  It's about $300 -$400 and will correct many of the C3d survey deficiencies.

If you think you can't afford training, then take three days vacation, shut off the phones, and close the shop.  Use those days to go completly through the tutorials, and plan on asking questions here.  Get a copy of Mastering C3d for reference, and do some of their tutorials.  If you are NOT on subscription, it's worth doing it now.  It'll save you money in the long run, and give you access to Autodesk University On-line.  There are several very good training videos there to handle unusual problems.

Good Luck - you've just left Kansas, and are headed for OZ.

Reid

Civil Technician

[Neilw_05]

As others have noted, you can easily migrate Land Desktop data to C3D. Be aware that once you commit to C3D you will be forced to standardize on one specific version throughout your enterprise since each version of C3D up until now is not backwards compatible. Thus you will not be able to have users on an older version working with projects created or saved in a newer version. Accordingly you will have to upgrade ALL licenses simultaneously or else restrict projects to specific versions. Also be aware that C3D requires 4-8 GB of RAM to run efficiently. That will require upgrading your computers to a 64 bit OS and adding memory.

[Anonymous]

Thanks everyone for all your help!

-WindyCityEngineer

[BrianHailey]

Go for it! It can be tough learning the new software but it's so worth it!

[Anonymous]

One other thing occured to me last night.

How's your hardware?  Part of this equation is that the newer programs are all going to 64bit OS, and Win 7 Pro is probably the best fit for most small offices.  This will allow you to access over 4 gig of ram, and some of the older hardware may have problems with that.  C3d 2010(32bit) & 2011(64 bit) can run in XP and under 3 gig, but they are very unstable, and can crash at a moments notice, especially if you use grading objects.

So you may want to consider new boxes with a fast dual core (I7 or I5) processor, 8gigs (min) ram, a good fast 300 to 500 gig HD (Veliciraptor or WD Caviar), a mid range Nvidia powered graphics card w/ 750 to 1gig vram With Win 7 64 Pro to go with the new C3d2011/12.  You may have some problems with older plotters (I've got a HP 500 that still works with Win 7 64), and some older programs, but pro allows you to run in a 32bit mode.  You may hold onto one of the older boxes and plot to DWF or PDFs on the new system, then plot those off the older box as a workaround.

You'll also need two monitors per station, or a big 32".  The new menu structure of C3d takes up alot of screen real estate.  W/out the two monitors, you won't have much space left for DRAFTING.  You'll be panning & zooming so much you won't get any production done.

Reid

[Anonymous]

The computers at our office are a couple of years old. Two has XP and one has Vista. But we do have a brand new HP 650C plotter. With this economy and the way the business is going, I don't think computer upgrades is in the near future.

[Neilw_05]

If you are not able to upgrade your hardware you will find C3D to be very sluggish and unstable, even for very small projects. It is a sure recipe for loss of productivity and frustration. I highly recommend you get the proper hardware before attempting to use it in a production capacity. That may mean staying on LDT until the economy to improves. You might also consider upgrading a few machines and using them for new C3D projects while others continue to work on their projects in LDT.

[Anonymous]

You really need 8 gig of ram & the stability of Win 7.  I've just ordered components from Newegg & B&H Photo to put together my own box with 12gig ram & an I5 Sandy Bridge 2500k.  It'll cost just about $1355 & take me about two hours to put together.  You might be able to find an I5 with 8gig & a decent HD & Graphics card with Win 7 HOME for about $1100. 

You can run on an XP system, but it ain't pretty, and be sure to save every other command.  You could upgrade your OS & ram for about $300, but you'll need to reinsatll all your programs and data.  From XP, it's just like you reformated your hard drive.

Reid

[Anonymous]

Since we've come to this part of the topic, I take it from most of the responses that the minimum requirements to keep C3D running as smoothly as possibly are:

8GM RAM

64-bit Windows 7

Very good graphics card (the more expensive the better?)

[Anonymous]

"Civil 3D has a command that automatically converts all LDT project data into Civil 3D objects. Points, Surfaces, Alignments, Pipe Run etc. It’s fair to say you would not want to go back….but data can actually go backwards into LDT using the XML export command".

Does anyone know if the above statement is true or if the whole XML export command actually works. Sinc mentioned in the previous post that you can't.

[Sinc]

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@Anonymous wrote:

Since we've come to this part of the topic, I take it from most of the responses that the minimum requirements to keep C3D running as smoothly as possibly are:

8GM RAM

64-bit Windows 7

Very good graphics card (the more expensive the better?)

---

8GB RAM is good.

64-bit Windows 7 is very strongly recommended.

Graphics card is not that important, unless you are heavily into rendering.  Most C3D users don't notice much difference between a GeForce 9600 and a mid-range Quadro.  The high-end cards perform better, but not by a whole lot, and you can really spend a lot of money for little gain in performance.

[Sinc]

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@Anonymous wrote:

"Civil 3D has a command that automatically converts all LDT project data into Civil 3D objects. Points, Surfaces, Alignments, Pipe Run etc. It’s fair to say you would not want to go back….but data can actually go backwards into LDT using the XML export command".

Does anyone know if the above statement is true or if the whole XML export command actually works. Sinc mentioned in the previous post that you can't.

---

You can use LandXML to transfer design data amongst a wide variety of programs, including CIvil 3D and Land Desktop.

But it's not particularly useful to you if you're using C3D.  LandXML is not like opening and converting a drawing from an old format to a new format.  LandXML contains a good chunk of your design data, but not everything can be exported to LandXML.  LandXML can be useful when transmitting data one-way...  For example, if you do your design in C3D, and hire a contractor who does construction in LDD, you can export significant pieces of your design to LandXML.  The construction surveyor can then take that LandXML and use it to create Land Desktop drawings, which can then be used in construction.  This can save a good chunk of time over hand-creating everything in Land Desktop from printed plan sets and standard 2D Autocad drawings.  But it's a process full of caveats.  It's not a "magical conversion tool".  And it's definitely not something you want to do on a repeated round-trip fashion...  In other words, it is NOT designed to allow you to have a mixed office, with some people on Civil 3D and some on Land Desktop.

And of course, as I said earlier, once you get used to Civil 3D, you won't WANT to use Land Desktop...  After using C3D for a while, most people don't even want to start up Land Desktop, even for a little bit, let alone try to USE it on a project...

[AllenJessup]

Not that I don't think you should get 8 GB RAM. But I'm running fairly successfully on 4 GB. Compared to XP 32 bit with 3 GB it's a dream.

I know there are arguments that C3D doesn't need a particular powerful video card. But I've found that I seem to have less display problems with my Nvidia Quardo FX 4600 that those with more "reasonably" priced cards.

Allen

[peterfunkautodesk]

One thing that you don't want to do is spend $1500 on a graphics card for an old computer running Windows XP. It would be much better to get a $1500 computer running Windows 7x64 with a stock graphics card. If you have Windows 7x64, a fast CPU and a bunch of RAM and you still want more speed out of Civil 3D, then look at a graphics card (but not before the first three are right). If you are saving across the network, the a new network card might get you more than a graphic card.

The reason that I keep posting these type messages is that I feel that lots of IT guys will try to put a new expensive graphics card in a machine because that is what has worked in the past (how many of you remember the $4,000 Nth Engine?), but the solution is to switch the OS to Windows 7x64. You could build a $10,000 computer with XP x32 that I don't think would work as well as a Windows 7x64 computer off the shelf from your local big box store. The OS is that important.

Cheers,

Peter Funk

Autodesk, Inc.

[annw2]

We are finding all kinds of problems with 3d not behaving as stated.  Labels refusing to label.  Profile views having stations and functional bands in model space that vanish in paperspace.  Profiles randomly dropping to 0

We have one drafter continually getting tatal erros.  She could switch to the new Vista machine, but we can't get a plotter driver for it.

[AllenJessup]

Upgrade to Windows 7 64 if you can. If there is an XP 64 bit diver for your plotter that will probably work. That's what I'm doing. The XP 64 bit driver for our HP 5000PS works fine in Windows 7. Let us know what kind of plotter. Maybe someone has already tested it. You can also post on the Hardware group.

Allen

[annw2]

Xerox 8830

I think I tried the Hardware forum when we first got the computer, but I can try again.

[Anonymous]

Ann,

You need to get your production PEOPLE on the newest machine you have.  Plotting can be done several ways, including to PDF, or to DWF, and then taken to an older box.  Until you can afford to upgrade to a new plotter, sending a plot file to a different machine is a lot less unproductive than having a flakey program.

Reid