The Real Deal on C3D 2007? Who has installed?

[dana.probert]

have a really excellent client that is about to unleash Civil 3D on the masses.



We just finished setting up their templates and some bigger picture CAD management stuff.



We are also hashing out their survey department who was poised to learn Land Desktop and Autodesk Survey (they know nothing right now.)



I am EXTREMELY tempted to install 2007. Since it is all new to the masses- and C3D 2007 is just that much cleaner than 2006… and this way their survey department only has to learn one program and no back-n-forth, etc.



So I need the real deal…. The inside scoop from anyone who has installed the program since it arrived. I have the beta installed and the shipment is waiting for me at the head office… so I haven’t installed it just yet.



This is a big client- 30ish seats on a network. Nothing else- no vanilla or arch desktop, etc. to get in the way.



I don’t want to screw them up, but I want them to have access to the great new stuff… and have less crashy crapola to deal with…



Anyone?



Dana





Dana Breig Probert

dana.probert@cadapult.net



Delmarva Autodesk Users Group

Meets Monthly at Del Tech in Georgetown

http://www.delmarvausergroup.com/



Need help with Civil 3D, Land Desktop, Map or Survey? Looking for answers?

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cadapult_civil to join.



Want to stay informed about Cadapult Trainings, Lectures, Users Groups and Upcoming Events?

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cadapult_announcements/ to join

[Anonymous]

No, not labels - point objects. Example: How do you rotate a street sign to
face traffic? Or a mailbox to be perpendicular to the road? If you're not
using point objects for your symbol importation, I'm interested in what
process you are using.

Well, I do like the Sheet Manager in Civil Design. Some of my pipeline
projects contain over 100 alignment sheets (plan/profiles). Sheet Manager
generates them in minutes to a relatively high degree of completion. In many
cases my sheet style labels well over 150 labels per sheet - even on smaller
roads and cul-de-sacs. It even calculates my pipe depths for quantity
estimates. I think it's the most productive tool in Land Desktop/Civil
Design. (For those of you that have struggled with the Sheet Manager setup
the attached is an exercise I wrote for our training. Contact me direct if
you have questions.)

I like the Sheet Set Manager for drawing management but I have yet to come
up with a process to use it to automatically lay out my sheets. I'm open for
suggestions.

With regard to water lines... I was hoping to create simple symbols with
Partbuilder for hydrants, tees, etc. but finally surrendered. I don't know
squat about parametric modeling and got absolutely nowhere.

I am able to use my 2D symbols for these plan "structures" but they must be
rotated manually to align properly with the water line. That's no worse than
the process in Land Desktop and at least I can use C3D labels. Between
feature line improvements, Pipe Rule changes, and enhancements to Pipes in
2007 I can now do profiles. In 2006 it was an exercise in futility.

So, Dana, I am interested in whatever hints or tips you might have. I
appreciate your time.

--
Mike Norton
Total CAD Systems, Inc. - Houston, Texas

wrote in message
news:5157561@discussion.autodesk.com...
Non-Rotating Point Objects?

Do you mean labels? You can change the label styles settings so that they
rotate.

Sheet generation- I never liked Sheet Manager in Civil Design. I make Named
Views and use Sheet Set Manager to keep them organized.

Water lines- trick Civil 3D to do the horizontal for sure. I make a plan
structure and assign a hydrant or valve block to get the look.

Tell me more about the kind of tasks you are trying to accomplish and I'll
do my best to give the short list of work-arounds. 🙂

Dana

[Anonymous]

what? they are doing production without any other tools or utils?
very sad.

Dana Breig Probert <>
|>no 3rd party anything.
|>
|>no OCE.
James Maeding
Civil Engineer and Programmer
jmaeding - athunsaker - com

[Anonymous]

Thans for commenting Peter.
I am still amazed C3D does not have the ability to label a spot elevation from a Corridor.
I dont want the surface elev from a surface build, I need the actual calculated elev.
I know I harp on that constantly, sorry for the beating 🙂

For those that don't have the ability to do this now, how do you live?
Half the reason we set up alignments and vert align is to get TC elevs, or manhole rim elevs, or any elev from a street
or pipeline.
I know people can make surfaces, but they are not accurate enough for final design (correct to the hundredth) and are
rediculous when talking about pipelines.

The answer is to write a routine like Peter said.
But then I am back to treating C3D just like LDT. My callouts are not dynamic and do not change according to style
changes.

So that comment about "C3D 2007 being the completion of the C3D model" is far from true.
We need a plan callout tool that works with Corridoors.

C'mon, the Mapcad guys made a living off the version of this tool they did.
It used to be part of the Madcapp tools in Softdesk, then they tried to sell it for $1000 a seat when it became LDT.
They had a good tool but it was too expensive and too fancy IMO.

So Autodesk is keenly aware of the need for this and has ignored it in core C3D.
What more can I say about the incompleteness of C3D. It has a long way to go. Its interface is too raw and third
parties have not caught up yet to the automation needed. Thats ok though, things take time to get right.

I just hate it when someone who does not use LDT or another prog to do real street and pipeline design, comes along and
professes C3D is so complete. There are huge gaps in annotation tools and all kinds of stuff we still have to clean up
after it throws down annotation. I would say we are just beginning to see what can be done with a 3D model approach in
civil engineering.



Peter Funk - Autodesk, Inc
|>The expressions haven't gotten to that point that you can use elements from
|>both an HA and a VA together in a single expression. However, you can now
|>label the HA with basic informtion from the VA.
|>
|>The better solution to this problem would be to run a quick corridor down
|>the alignment that has a couple of links on it at -2%. You could then pick
|>up the information from either the links or from a corridor surface made
|>from the links.
|>
|>Another alternative would be to write a quck routine that would rip down the
|>alignment and stakeout points at some increment. It could even have a nice
|>little dialog box that would allow you to pick the alignment, profile,
|>offset, slope, and increment, and even what point group to use for the final
|>points.
|>
|>Peter Funk
|>Autodesk, Inc.
James Maeding
Civil Engineer and Programmer
jmaeding - athunsaker - com

[Anonymous]

snip>Example: How do you rotate a street sign to face traffic? Or a mailbox
to be perpendicular to the road?
I'm surmising that you're talking about Dynamically rotating blocks here, is
that correct?

In LDT I've been handling the Topo Symbols by using Blocks that are set to
match the necessary rotation by aligning them with either zero or ninety
degrees. And I was thinking I would be using the same convention with C3D,
unless there are other methods.

The way AutoCAD "thinks about" zero and ninety, not the way a Surveyor would
think about zero and ninety. 🙂

Case in point is attached - ADA ramp using zero as the insertion point
(matches the Center of the Curb Return that way), and the Midpoint of the
Return arc as the rotation point.

--
Don Reichle
"The only thing worse
than training your staff,
and having them leave is -
not training your staff,
and having them stay."
Courtesy Graphics Solution Providers
----------------------------------------------------------
LDT-2K4
Intel Celeron 2.5GHz
XPPro 32bit SP2
1GB RAM
Intel 82865G 64MB


"Mike Norton" wrote in message
news:5157936@discussion.autodesk.com...
No, not labels - point objects. Example: How do you rotate a street sign to
face traffic? Or a mailbox to be perpendicular to the road? If you're not
using point objects for your symbol importation, I'm interested in what
process you are using.

Well, I do like the Sheet Manager in Civil Design. Some of my pipeline
projects contain over 100 alignment sheets (plan/profiles). Sheet Manager
generates them in minutes to a relatively high degree of completion. In many
case
s my sheet style labels well over 150 labels per sheet - even on smaller
roads and cul-de-sacs. It even calculates my pipe depths for quantity
estimates. I think it's the most productive tool in Land Desktop/Civil
Design. (For those of you that have struggled with the Sheet Manager setup
the attached is an exercise I wrote for our training. Contact me direct if
you have questions.)

I like the Sheet Set Manager for drawing management but I have yet to come
up with a p
rocess to use it to automatically lay out my sheets. I'm open for
suggestions.

With regard to water lines... I was hoping to create simple symbols with
Partbuilder for hydrants, tees, etc. but finally surrendered. I don't know
squat about parametric modeling and got absolutely nowhere.

I am able to use my 2D symbols for these plan "structures" but they must be
rotated manually to align properly with the water line. That's no worse than
the process in Land Desktop and
at least I can use C3D labels. Between
feature line improvements, Pipe Rule changes, and enhancements to Pipes in
2007 I can now do profiles. In 2006 it was an exercise in futility.

So, Dana, I am interested in whatever hints or tips you might have. I
appreciate your time.

--
Mike Norton
Total CAD Systems, Inc. - Houston, Texas

wrote in message
news:5157561@discussion.autodesk.com...
Non-Rotating Point Objects?

Do you mean labels? You can change t
he label styles settings so that they
rotate.

Sheet generation- I never liked Sheet Manager in Civil Design. I make Named
Views and use Sheet Set Manager to keep them organized.

Water lines- trick Civil 3D to do the horizontal for sure. I make a plan
structure and assign a hydrant or valve block to get the look.

Tell me more about the kind of tasks you are trying to accomplish and I'll
do my best to give the short list of work-arounds. 🙂

Dana

[Anonymous]

It has since 2Ki, which if I had read Peter's post 1st may have said the
same thing.

Cross Sections in LDT are fairly powerful tools.

--
Don Reichle
"The only thing worse
than training your staff,
and having them leave is -
not training your staff,
and having them stay."
Courtesy Graphics Solution Providers
----------------------------------------------------------
LDT-2K4
Intel Celeron 2.5GHz
XPPro 32bit SP2
1GB RAM
Intel 82865G 64MB


wrote in message
news:5157583@discussion.autodesk.com...
i have a really SUPER DUMB question

does Land Desktop do that? I might never have thought about it that hard...

[Anonymous]

I don't know what you are talking about, Don. I create a point object style
of a mailbox. I can't rotate it.

--
Mike Norton
Total CAD Systems, Inc. - Houston, Texas

"Don Reichle" wrote in message
news:5158359@discussion.autodesk.com...
snip>Example: How do you rotate a street sign to face traffic? Or a mailbox
to be perpendicular to the road?
I'm surmising that you're talking about Dynamically rotating blocks here, is
that correct?

In LDT I've been handling the Topo Symbols by using Blocks that are set to
match the necessary rotation by aligning them with either zero or ninety
degrees. And I was thinking I would be using the same convention with C3D,
unless there are other methods.

The way AutoCAD
"thinks about" zero and ninety, not the way a Surveyor would
think about zero and ninety. 🙂

Case in point is attached - ADA ramp using zero as the insertion point
(matches the Center of the Curb Return that way), and the Midpoint of the
Return arc as the rotation point.

--
Don Reichle
"The only thing worse
than training your staff,
and having them leave is -
not training your staff,
and having them stay."
Courtesy Graphics Solution Providers
---------------------------
-------------------------------
LDT-2K4
Intel Celeron 2.5GHz
XPPro 32bit SP2
1GB RAM
Intel 82865G 64MB


"Mike Norton" wrote in message
news:5157936@discussion.autodesk.com...
No, not labels - point objects. Example: How do you rotate a street sign to
face traffic? Or a mailbox to be perpendicular to the road? If you're not
using point objects for your symbol importation, I'm interested in what
process you are using.

Well, I do like the Sheet Manager in Civil Design.
Some of my pipeline
projects contain over 100 alignment sheets (plan/profiles). Sheet Manager
generates them in minutes to a relatively high degree of completion. In many
case
s my sheet style labels well over 150 labels per sheet - even on smaller
roads and cul-de-sacs. It even calculates my pipe depths for quantity
estimates. I think it's the most productive tool in Land Desktop/Civil
Design. (For those of you that have struggled with the Sheet Manager setup
the attached is an exercise I wrot
e for our training. Contact me direct if
you have questions.)

I like the Sheet Set Manager for drawing management but I have yet to come
up with a p
rocess to use it to automatically lay out my sheets. I'm open for
suggestions.

With regard to water lines... I was hoping to create simple symbols with
Partbuilder for hydrants, tees, etc. but finally surrendered. I don't know
squat about parametric modeling and got absolutely nowhere.

I am able to use my 2D symbols for these plan "structures"
but they must be
rotated manually to align properly with the water line. That's no worse than
the process in Land Desktop and
at least I can use C3D labels. Between
feature line improvements, Pipe Rule changes, and enhancements to Pipes in
2007 I can now do profiles. In 2006 it was an exercise in futility.

So, Dana, I am interested in whatever hints or tips you might have. I
appreciate your time.

--
Mike Norton
Total CAD Systems, Inc. - Houston, Texas

wrote in m
essage
news:5157561@discussion.autodesk.com...
Non-Rotating Point Objects?

Do you mean labels? You can change t
he label styles settings so that they
rotate.

Sheet generation- I never liked Sheet Manager in Civil Design. I make Named
Views and use Sheet Set Manager to keep them organized.

Water lines- trick Civil 3D to do the horizontal for sure. I make a plan
structure and assign a hydrant or valve block to get the look.

Tell me more about the kind of tasks you are trying to accom
plish and I'll
do my best to give the short list of work-arounds. 🙂

Dana

[Anonymous]

James,

We've been labeling spots from a corridor for a couple of releases. There
are two ways that you can do it - You can use "COGO Points from Corridor..."
and select the point code that you want to export, or you can make a
corridor surface that we hit if you want to use intermediate points. In 2007
the exported surface stays in sync with the corridor so your labels would
update based on the corridor.

Cheers,

Peter Funk
Autodesk, Inc.

[nzeeben]

Not quite the request. The requirement is to be able to select ANY point on
the design and have the data calculated, the COGO from Corridor limits you
to points at given frequency locations. James is after the ability to grab
a point say halfway between EOP and CL and have the label do the exact math
on the elevation based on crossfall and offset.

; "Inc" wrote in message
news:5158814@discussion.autodesk.com...
James,

We've been labeling spots from a corridor for a couple of releases. There
are two ways that you can do it - You can use "COGO Points from Corridor..."
and select the point code that you want to export, or you can make a
corridor surface that we hit if you want to use intermediate points. In 2007
the exported surface stays in sync with the corridor so your labels would
update based on the corridor.

Cheers,

Peter Funk
Autodesk, Inc.

[Anonymous]

So use option #2, where you make a corridor surface of a simple link with
cross fall. Then add station offset labels that reference that surface. I
understand that isn't exactly what is being asked for, but it will do the
job.

Please add the expressions that span multiple objects to the wish list site.

Cheers,

Peter Funk
Autodesk, Inc.

[Anonymous]

OK then I'll need to provide an example of my experience doing this while in
LDT, I've not made the move to C3D as of yet but my anticipation may be
about to be fulfilled.

So here's the Mailbox example you mentioned, but I'm trying to relate my
process in LDT. What I hear you saying is that there's no method to have the
Block inserted as a part of the Point Object Style?

Along the same type of thinking behind Description Key Manager in LDT?

--
Don Reichle
"The only thing worse
than training your staff,
and having them leave is -
not training your staff,
and having them stay."
Courtesy Graphics Solution Providers
----------------------------------------------------------
LDT-2K4
Intel Celeron 2.5GHz
XPPro 32bit SP2
1GB RAM
Intel 82865G 64MB


"Mike Norton" wrote in message
news:5158490@discussion.autodesk.com...
I don't know what you are talking about, Don. I create a point object style
of a mailbox. I can't rotate it.

--
Mike Norton
Total CAD Systems, Inc. - Houston, Texas

"Don Reichle" wrote in message
news:5158359@discussion.autodesk.com...
snip>Example: How do you rotate a street sign to face traffic? Or a mailbox
to be perpendicular to the road?
I'm surmising that you're talking about Dynamically rotating blocks here, is
that correct?

In LDT I've been handling the Topo Symbols by using Blocks that are set to
match the necessary rotation by aligning them with either zero or ninety
degrees. And I was thinking I would be using the same convention with C3D,
unless there are other methods.

The way AutoCAD
"thinks about" zero and ninety, not the way a Surveyor would
think about zero and ninety. 🙂

Case in point is attached - ADA ramp using zero as the insertion point
(matches the Center of the Curb Return that way), and the Midpoint of the
Return arc as the rotation point.

--
Don Reichle
"The only thing worse
than training your staff,
and having them leave is -
not training your staff,
and having them stay."
Courtesy Graphics Solution Providers
---------------------------
-------------------------------
LDT-2K4
Intel Celeron 2.5GHz
XPPro 32bit SP2
1GB RAM
Intel 82865G 64MB


"Mike Norton" wrote in message
news:5157936@discussion.autodesk.com...
No, not labels - point objects. Example: How do you rotate a street sign to
face traffic? Or a mailbox to be perpendicular to the road? If you're not
using point objects for your symbol importation, I'm interested in what
process you are using.

Well, I do like the Sheet Manager in Civil Design.
Some of my pipeline
projects contain over 100 alignment sheets (plan/profiles). Sheet Manager
generates them in minutes to a relatively high degree of completion. In many
case
s my sheet style labels well over 150 labels per sheet - even on smaller
roads and cul-de-sacs. It even calculates my pipe depths for quantity
estimates. I think it's the most productive tool in Land Desktop/Civil
Design. (For those of you that have struggled with the Sheet Manager setup
the attached is an exercise I wrot
e for our training. Contact me direct if
you have questions.)

I like the Sheet Set Manager for drawing management but I have yet to come
up with a p
rocess to use it to automatically lay out my sheets. I'm open for
suggestions.

With regard to water lines... I was hoping to create simple symbols with
Partbuilder for hydrants, tees, etc. but finally surrendered. I don't know
squat about parametric modeling and got absolutely nowhere.

I am able to use my 2D symbols for these plan "structures"
but they must be
rotated manually to align properly with the water line. That's no worse than
the process in Land Desktop and
at least I can use C3D labels. Between
feature line improvements, Pipe Rule changes, and enhancements to Pipes in
2007 I can now do profiles. In 2006 it was an exercise in futility.

So, Dana, I am interested in whatever hints or tips you might have. I
appreciate your time.

--
Mike Norton
Total CAD Systems, Inc. - Houston, Texas

wrote in m
essage
news:5157561@discussion.autodesk.com...
Non-Rotating Point Objects?

Do you mean labels? You can change t
he label styles settings so that they
rotate.

Sheet generation- I never liked Sheet Manager in Civil Design. I make Named
Views and use Sheet Set Manager to keep them organized.

Water lines- trick Civil 3D to do the horizontal for sure. I make a plan
structure and assign a hydrant or valve block to get the look.

Tell me more about the kind of tasks you are trying to accom
plish and I'll
do my best to give the short list of work-arounds. 🙂

Dana

[dana.probert]

I would really like to see a screen capture of the type of label that you are looking for, just for my own mental sanity. If you have a drawing in LDT or otherwise where you have make this label manually, please post or email to me.

I just want to make sure I have my head around the question so that when it inevitably comes up in my work I can figure out the best way to answer it.

Are you, in essence, looking for an equivalent of the Land Desktop Export Points from Profile tool under the Profile Menu?

As far as "how to we live" it is more of a "where do we live". I work with clients in SE PA, NJ, MD, VA, and of course the lovely little state of DE.

In that 150-300 mile radius, my clients submit to about 1000 municipalities, townships, highway boards and others and each has their own little crappity crap rules about how many decimals, how they want things stationed, blah blah blah.

Civil 3D cannot be tricked to do half of these stupid labels just yet 🙂

Dana

[dana.probert]

Ahhh....

The work around for that is not terribly glamourous nor is it true to the model based world. Aside from the non-glamours method I have experimented with making the block symbol part of the label style instead of part of the object style, but so far I haven't hit any winners.

The non glamours way- import once using desckey that doesnt bring in symbol (or only symmertrical ones). Import again with desckey that brings in just symbol. Explode second batch of point objects, rotate. Yuck, right. I see your problem fully now.

As far as the sheet manager goes- I am glad to hear someone out there mastered it and had really good uses for it! I am now convinced that it needs to be added or perhaps some really great 3rd party application introduced.

I have had some limited success using mapbooks to cut out sheets, but it doesn't know the plan/profile relationship, so that wouldn't work.

Sigh. My workarounds are very helpful to you, but I will keep you in mind as I am on discovery missions.

:)

[dana.probert]

yeah, i feel it.

i never bothered making custom parts for water, i just made a structure object style that looked like a valve, a hyrdrant, a blow off, etc. and made label styles that ignored things like invert. So they arent true water networks or water models but it took the sting out of plan drafting and labeling.

It also took the sting out of crossings- drafting on profile and labeling with depth and type, etc. I'd made a pipe label and profile view label for crossings.

as for profile, i'd dump it over then explode it and make it do all the junk that waterlines do in profile.

So I know it isnt purist, but I am a lazy drafter- if I can get 85% of the job done semi-intelligently, I go with it.

But, I focus on small muni projects, subdivisions and neighborhood rehabs. Not 100000 miles of texas waterline. So my tricks aren't nearly up to the challenge of your projects. 🙂

[Anonymous]

Don,

In Civil 3D (any version) use a station offset label for stop signs and mail
boxes instead of a point object. Here are the steps for setting one up:

1. Make or import the block you want to use.
2 In "Settings" under "Alignment" "Label Styles" "Station Offset" add a new
Style.
3. In the "Label Style Composer" Dialog go to the "General" page and change
the "Orientation Reference" to "Object" (from "View"). This will force the
object to be aligned with the alignment.
4. Change the "Plan Readability" to "false", again forcing the object to be
rotate per the alignment.
5.In the "Layout" page, erase the default element
6. Add a new "Block" component
7. Under "Block Name" select the block you want to use.
8. Change the block height to be what ever you want.
9. Change the "Rotation Angle" to be 270 if you want the block to read from
the start of the alignment.
10. Change the "Anchor Point" to be "Middle Center"
11. Save your changes.

One additional step...
1. Make a new point style "none" that doesn't display any graphics.

Inserting your new label:

Use the "Station Offset" label, select your new label, and the "none" point
style, and add away!

If you move the alignment, the station offset labels will stay relative to
where you first placed them. You can also change them so they stay at a
fixed location, but will still rotate based on the alignment. If you need to
move the label, you'll need to change the Point Style in the Label
Properties to something you can see.

If you need, I'll be glad to attach a drawing that shows this.

Cheers,

Peter Funk
Autodesk, Inc.

[Anonymous]

One more suggestion:

On the "none" point style, change the marker to the dot, and place the maker
on a layer that doesn't plot. That makes it easy to move the label around,
select the label, and then select the point in the middle.

Cheers,

Peter Funk
Autodesk, Inc.

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the help Peter.

You might guess what your suggestions have done for my level of anticipation
to get my hands on C3D! 🙂

Has what we've been discussing been covered in a Webcast so far? If so,
maybe you might point me to a date?

If not I'm thinking that a significant amount of Users (both Current and
Potential) would benefit from an expose` along these lines. That is - if Mr.
Simeone is looking for areas of interest for portions of the future
Webcasts.

--
Don Reichle
"The only thing worse
than training your staff,
and having them leave is -
not training your staff,
and having them stay."
Courtesy Graphics Solution Providers
----------------------------------------------------------
LDT-2K4
Intel Celeron 2.5GHz
XPPro 32bit SP2
1GB RAM
Intel 82865G 64MB


; "Inc" wrote in message
news:5158996@discussion.autodesk.com...
One more suggestion:

On the "none" point style, change the marker to the dot, and place the maker
on a layer that doesn't plot. That makes it easy to move the label around,
select the label, and then select the point in the middle.

Cheers,

Peter Funk
Autodesk, Inc.

[Anonymous]

Hey Dana;

snip>In that 150-300 mile radius, my clients submit to about 1000
municipalities, townships, highway boards and others and each has their own
little crappity crap rules about how many decimals, how they want things
stationed, blah blah blah.

An alternate method of dealing with the local agency "gods" is to seek to
make them happy in the most expeditious manner possible. Which most likely
would follow the path of least resistance in my 25+ years experience.

Up until you get your Engineering Improvement Construction Plans being
reviewed by someone with PLS or RLS following their name. Then the CE firm
should politely inform the Agency that until they acquire a reviewer with
the necessary credentials for review, no changes based on the first review
by the person with LS in their credentials will be made to the plans
whatsoever. This has been happening to the firm I'm employed with, and that
was my recent counsel to the Boss.

At least until there has been a subsequent review of the same plans by those
with the necessary credentials - EIT or PE.

But these are the folks that need to stay pleased with your client's plans.
Or else they have the ability to make their lives quite miserable in a
significantly short amount of time.

Been there, done that, learned from previous Mistakes and now forearmed to
not repeat those Mistakes wherever possible.

--
Don Reichle
"The only thing worse
than training your staff,
and having them leave is -
not training your staff,
and having them stay."
Courtesy Graphics Solution Providers
----------------------------------------------------------
LDT-2K4
Intel Celeron 2.5GHz
XPPro 32bit SP2
1GB RAM
Intel 82865G 64MB


wrote in message
news:5158942@discussion.autodesk.com...
I would really like to see a screen capture of the type of label that you
are looking for, just for my own mental sanity. If you have a drawing in
LDT or otherwise where you have make this label manually, please post or
email to me.

I just want to make sure I have my head around the question so that when it
inevitably comes up in my work I can figure out the best way to answer it.

Are you, in essence, looking for an equivalent of the Land Desktop Export
Points from Profile tool under the Profile Menu?

As far as "how to we live" it is more of a "where do we live". I work with
clients in SE PA, NJ, MD, VA, and of course the lovely little state of DE.

In that 150-300 mile radius, my clients submit to about 1000 municipalities,
townships, highway boards and others and each has their own little crappity
crap rules about how many decimals, how they want things stationed, blah
blah blah.

Civil 3D cannot be tricked to do half of these stupid labels just yet 🙂

Dana

[Anonymous]

After reading over my last, I discovered I had omitted an important portion.

But the path of least resistance often involves helping those agencies see
how much work they are placing upon the firm(s). So maybe they can be shown
how close the firm(s) can get to what the "gods" desire, and maybe that
might be close enough to get their subsequent approval.

I'm talking about a sit-down meeting with those involved with the subsequent
decisions. The agency gets to see the firm's attitude isn't argumentative,
but seeking to get as close to what the agency desires in the least amount
of time/cost to their client(s).

Building relationships is what I'm discussing here, and I've seen this work
to the benefit of all involved. Especially the consumers - they are often
forgotten during these times. But they can often be the best allies to have
behind the firm, since they have the ability to affect the municipality's
personnel through their votes.

I realize that voters don't individually affect the Planning/Engineering
staff members, but they have significant impact on their "bosses" - Mayor,
Council Members, etc.

HTH

--
Don Reichle
"The only thing worse
than training your staff,
and having them leave is -
not training your staff,
and having them stay."
Courtesy Graphics Solution Providers
----------------------------------------------------------
LDT-2K4
Intel Celeron 2.5GHz
XPPro 32bit SP2
1GB RAM
Intel 82865G 64MB


"Don Reichle" wrote in message
news:5159110@discussion.autodesk.com...
Hey Dana;

snip>In that 150-300 mile radius, my clients submit to about 1000
municipalities, townships, highway boards and others and each has their own
little crappity crap rules about how many decimals, how they want things
stationed, blah blah blah.

An alternate method of dealing with the local agency "gods" is to seek to
make them happy in the most expeditious manner possible. Which most likely
would follow the path of least resistance in my 25+ years experience.

Up until you get your Engineering Improvement Construction Plans being
reviewed by someone with PLS or RLS following their name. Then the CE firm
should politely inform the Agency that until they acquire a reviewer with
the necessary credentials for review, no changes based on the first review
by the person with LS in their credentials will be made to the plans
whatsoever. This has been happening to the firm I'm employed with, and that
was my recent counsel to the Boss.

At least until there has been a subsequent review of the same plans by those
with the necessary credentials - EIT or PE.

But these are the folks that need to stay pleased with your client's plans.
Or else they have the ability to make their lives quite miserable in a
significantly short amount of time.

Been there, done that, learned from previous Mistakes and now forearmed to
not repeat those Mistakes wherever possible.

--
Don Reichle
"The only thing worse
than training your staff,
and having them leave is -
not training your staff,
and having them stay."
Courtesy Graphics Solution Providers
----------------------------------------------------------
LDT-2K4
Intel Celeron 2.5GHz
XPPro 32bit SP2
1GB RAM
Intel 82865G 64MB


wrote in message
news:5158942@discussion.autodesk.com...
I would really like to see a screen capture of the type of label that you
are looking for, just for my own mental sanity. If you have a drawing in
LDT or otherwise where you have make this label manually, please post or
email to me.

I just want to make sure I have my head around the question so that when it
inevitably comes up in my work I can figure out the best way to answer it.

Are you, in essence, looking for an equivalent of the Land Desktop Export
Points from Profile tool under the Profile Menu?

As far as "how to we live" it is more of a "where do we live". I work with
clients in SE PA, NJ, MD, VA, and of course the lovely little state of DE.

In that 150-300 mile radius, my clients submit to about 1000 municipalities,
townships, highway boards and others and each has their own little crappity
crap rules about how many decimals, how they want things stationed, blah
blah blah.

Civil 3D cannot be tricked to do half of these stupid labels just yet 🙂

Dana

[dana.probert]

Hi Don

Thank you for your ideas.... it gives me some food for thought for sure!

I have done some missionary work with a handful or local agencies. I took our local Soil Conservation Service (our NPDES Phase II reviewers) through a basic autocad class and showed them what the consultants go through, and it really opened their eyes.

I also am working with a few local agencies with things like standard submittal packages that aren't "moving targets". Sometimes, what they want changes based on their latest whimsy.

For the most part we are quite lucky that most of the folks that review our drawings, at least in DE, are PEs. So the guys at Soil Conservation are all PEs, semi-retired, with wonderful experience who are always willing to help. But they also have some very specific ways they want things called out. For the most part, I can get Civil 3D to help with that!

They have also been big advocates for me- I showed them layer translation and a few other minor tricks that the submitting engineers have (but don't realize they have) and we have worked out some "show-n-tell" breakfasts that have been mutually beneficial.

Boy this thread has diverged, huh? 😛

[Anonymous]

Sounds like you're already some of the way down the road I was talking
about.

Relationships with agency personnel can be a key factor in having a Project
approved quickly or maybe in a "lifetime". 🙂

--
Don Reichle
"The only thing worse
than training your staff,
and having them leave is -
not training your staff,
and having them stay."
Courtesy Graphics Solution Providers
----------------------------------------------------------
LDT-2K4
Intel Celeron 2.5GHz
XPPro 32bit SP2
1GB RAM
Intel 82865G 64MB


wrote in message
news:5159144@discussion.autodesk.com...
Hi Don

Thank you for your ideas.... it gives me some food for thought for sure!

I have done some missionary work with a handful or local agencies. I took
our local Soil Conservation Service (our NPDES Phase II reviewers) through a
basic autocad class and showed them what the consultants go through, and it
really opened their eyes.

I also am working with a few local agencies with things like standard
submittal packages that aren't "moving targets". Sometimes, what they want
changes based on their latest whimsy.

For the most part we are quite lucky that most of the folks that review our
drawings, at least in DE, are PEs. So the guys at Soil Conservation are all
PEs, semi-retired, with wonderful experience who are always willing to help.
But they also have some very specific ways they want things called out. For
the most part, I can get Civil 3D to help with that!

They have also been big advocates for me- I showed them layer translation
and a few other minor tricks that the submitting engineers have (but don't
realize they have) and we have worked out some "show-n-tell" breakfasts that
have been mutually beneficial.

Boy this thread has diverged, huh? 😛