Takes too long to Design in Civil3d?

[HorizontalCurveGuy]

This phrase is being bandied about in our office and engineers are being instructed to not use Civil3d, but instead are told to red line. Personally, I don't get it. Yes if you don't use it it will probably take longer, but if you use it chances are it wont take so long.

What is your opinion?

[wfberry]

That's like telling someone that never owned or drove a car "You might as well just keep walking"!

Bill

[troma]

Here, the engineer will say "I want a 3:1 slope down from here to the existing ground" and give it to me. I do the grading and draw the slope, find the daylight location, plot it off and give it back to him. Seems reasonable. Is that what you mean?

[dgorsman]

Depends what you are trying to do.  If its a very simple task, basic 2D CAD may very well be faster.  Civil3D is better suited to larger projects where the amount of data to be managed/manipulated would be difficult to do with more traditional methods.

It can also depend on who does what in your office.  In ours, engineers use analysis software, regulatory information, etc. to control the overall project.  We have designers who understand the software and design practices and work with the models, but can't officially sign off on anything (as they aren't engineers).  Engineers don't touch the models, altough they *do* look at them with Navisworks.

[AllenJessup]

Welcome to my world. What I seem to find that means is that the person is saying "I'm too busy to learn this. I have to get projects done. Not sit around learning complicated software". If you can't convince them that the ROI in there time will be there. They're not going to be interested. I know that's a difficult task. Being up against deadlines doesn't help.

Another problem is that most of the Engineers here are nearing retirement age. They don't see the need to invest in a new skill that they'll only use for a few years. younger ones are no problem getting to learn and use the software. But then they're viewed and used as drafting staff making the changes from the redlines.

I have one Engineer who will use the program in a primitive fashion. But it took me a couple of years to break him of the habit of doing the design in Civil 3D and then plotting it out and giving me the plot to make the changes in the original plan set. I had to keep telling him to just give me the location  of his drawing on the server and throw away the paper.

It's not easy to get people who think they know everything...... No. That's not right. They're perfectly willing to learn about new products and techniques in Engineering. But when it comes to software there is a weird resistance.

Also. The design might not be that speedy. But when it comes to revisions - multiple revisions - that's when you can get massive time savings.

Allen

[Joe-Bouza]

I respectfully disagree with project magnitude. I can grade a single unit commercial site in minutes, and without the aid of the model to help visualize it would take considerably longer.

I do understand the pecking order in different offices

[dgorsman]

When I say "simple" I really do mean that.  Some of our small site work is out in the prairies, where the ground makes the word "flat" look insufficient.  😄  If you start throwing in hills, roads, ditches, and need to start moving dirt around then yeah - time to switch out the shovel for an excavator!

[ericcollins6932]

I think people get the phrase wrong.

They should stop blaming the software and understand that design of complicated models simply takes time if one is to do it right.

It all comes back to the adage "You want it fast or you want it right?"

[jmayo-EE]

"The design might not be that speedy. But when it comes to revisions - multiple revisions - that's when you can get massive time savings."

This is huge.

[doni49]

I used to work for an engineer who liked to make similar comments -- only instead of C3D vs Acad it was CAD vs board drafting.

He'd comment that he could draw the bldg on a peice of mylar faster than it could be done in cad.  I told him that in some cases, that may very well be true.  But what about later when he (or the owner) decides to make changes?  He could easily have to start over.  Whereas in cad, it's just a matter of opening the file and making the appropriate changes.

I finally got to the point that I had heard it enough and challenged him to actually do it -- draw it by hand and I'd draw it in CAD.  He finished about an hour before me.  I saved his hand drawn map and later when changes were required, I challenged him to make the changes on HIS plan and I'd make the same changes in CAD.  I was done in 5 min -- he gave up after an hour.  I never heard the comment from him again.

[mathewkol]

I can't say anything that hasn't already been said you all said it well. I've had lots of people say C3D is no faster to design than LDT. In some cases that's true, but it's certainly not slower and when it comes to revisions...there's no comparison.

[Joe-Bouza]

Revisions! you hit the nail on the head, Matt.

[HorizontalCurveGuy]

In our office engineers produce plans. When we were on LDT these guys did ther own grading, they have just decided they weren't going to learn C3D

Sent from my iPhone

[HorizontalCurveGuy]

Revisions! That's the whole point of the software and where I draw the line in the sand. These guys think they aw saving so much time up front and then they're dead in the firs round of revisions

Sent from my iPhone

[ksorsby]

I find - in the UK at least - that Civil 3D is seen as a technicians tool, not something for an engineer to use or learn. But in my experience, the best engineers can use Civil 3D to a high standard and don't need a technician.
Those engineers are the prized assets in the place I work.

Kevin

[AllenJessup]

---

@HorizontalCurveGuy wrote:
they have just decided they weren't going to learn C3D

---

Isn't it nice? As I mentioned. Some are too busy [read Important] to take the time to learn a tool that will save large blocks of time.

Allen