AutoCAD Civil 3D General Discussion

AutoCAD Civil 3D General Discussion

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Valued Contributor
sturner7277
Posts: 98
Registered: ‎10-18-2007
Message 1 of 16 (2,584 Views)

Survey Point Database

2584 Views, 15 Replies
03-06-2012 01:08 PM

i have read all the posts (i think) on this and still have a question.

 how are you or your company managing points as in field shots, storage, dulplicate point numbers?

are you using vault?

are you using the point database?

are you using one drawing file to import and store the points?

 

what we are doing now is using the point database as a storage location but it fails for notification on when a point # is duplicated.

surveys has a drawing file they use to import, store and build the existing ground surface from the points. this allows the notification of when a  point  number is duplicated. but it is not as secure or flexable as the old LDD way.

we don't use field books just text files from the collectors imported in.

 Vault is not an option for us. (at this time)

 

so what i am looking for is how others are adapting to this change, and what worked or not.

thanks

-Sean
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Distinguished Contributor
rfg018
Posts: 190
Registered: ‎11-29-2008
Message 2 of 16 (2,556 Views)

Re: Survey Point Database

03-06-2012 04:18 PM in reply to: sturner7277

First I do not like how Civil 3D handle point.

I think Autodesk wants us to use the points as an entity, not as data as in LDD.

 

My procedure is a follows:

1.  Complile point as CSV.

2.  Import point each comple/day in a drawing.  This is my backup reference.

3. add points to the survey database.

4. Import from survey database to working drawing.

5. use description keys to change the style of points.

6. I sort the points base on description and place them on different layers.

 

in final drawings I use point for lable spot elevations, and same points for Construction stakeing.

we are not a point that we can export the 3d line work for staking.

 

I'm also open to change.

Valued Mentor
KirkNoonan
Posts: 429
Registered: ‎09-23-2008
Message 3 of 16 (2,544 Views)

Re: Survey Point Database

03-07-2012 04:53 AM in reply to: sturner7277

We are using the point database (2011). I've never had any problems with not being notified of duplicate point numbers. Actually, it happens a lot more than I would like. The import events have turned out to be a useful feature for us since they can keep track of original point numbers and any renumbering that goes on.

We use the database to share points between the survey and engineering departments because it allows for great flexibility in point display for different uses. We also use the database to store many point attributes that LDD wouldn't allow us to store. That eliminates searching the fieldbook files or notes for information about monuments or pipes, etc.

Valued Contributor
sturner7277
Posts: 98
Registered: ‎10-18-2007
Message 4 of 16 (2,543 Views)

Re: Survey Point Database

03-07-2012 05:03 AM in reply to: KirkNoonan

thats good to know thay have made improvements to it. with 2009 if numbers are duplicated and added to the database the duplicate is ignored without a warning.

 

-Sean
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Win 7 pro 12gb
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Distinguished Contributor
jefflambert9091
Posts: 117
Registered: ‎09-12-2008
Message 5 of 16 (2,537 Views)

Re: Survey Point Database

03-07-2012 05:35 AM in reply to: sturner7277

We use the survey database to bring in all our field data. For Topo’s , the crews download the job files along with a CSV file. We use stringer connect to create a fieldbook file (FBK) and import though the Survey Database. This takes care of the description keys and the line work.

We are thinking about switching over from using the FBK’s to just the CSV. To do this we need to start using the line work code sets. Not that big of a deal in the office, but the crews need to learn the new coding procedure. Hate to go through another learning curve, but it would be more efficient overall. Using the survey database for Traversing is another subject. No so friendly.

 

C3D does a good job of notifying of duplicate points. You can change the settings on how it handles duplicate points though the Point creation Tools under Point Identity. To help avoiding duplicate points we came up with a point numbering system with specific ranges. Traverse, Topo, Comp, and even gave civil’s a point range.  Our civil’s do not use the database.  They have their range of points and they are creating them in their drawings.

 

We save all our survey point files with the project. If you have all your survey databases in one place, then you can put your point files in that Database directory.

 

C3D 2011

Valued Contributor
sturner7277
Posts: 98
Registered: ‎10-18-2007
Message 6 of 16 (2,516 Views)

Re: Survey Point Database

03-07-2012 08:18 AM in reply to: jefflambert9091

well it's good to know we are not too far off.

i played around with 2012 point database and must say it is a whole lot better.

we do not use the automated linework, but i've been slowly pushing for us to go that wat. think it will be a great time saver for the office guys.

-Sean
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*Expert Elite*
Sinc
Posts: 6,207
Registered: ‎11-18-2006
Message 7 of 16 (2,486 Views)

Re: Survey Point Database

03-07-2012 09:05 PM in reply to: sturner7277

This post stands a good chance of triggering my "Project Rant" again, so I'll stop here...

 

(C3D has practicaly no concept of what a "Project" is, and Autodesk has confused Project Management with Model Data management and Document Management, turning the whole thing into a mess.)

Sinc
Valued Contributor
sturner7277
Posts: 98
Registered: ‎10-18-2007
Message 8 of 16 (2,470 Views)

Re: Survey Point Database

03-08-2012 05:58 AM in reply to: Sinc

Sinc wrote:

This post stands a good chance of triggering my "Project Rant" again, so I'll stop here...

 


Don't need any rants! :smileyhappy:

i respect your opinion Sinc and have our indoor surveyors trying out your product. so i was hoping you might chime in. :smileyhappy:

i agree that the whole thing is muddied pretty good. but i just want to be fairly certin the path we are forging is going the right direction. (or at least within a stones throw)

i would like to have our company using the linework function in the very near future. so is converting RW5 to field books better  or keep using txt files. which is more efficent and keeps/improves accuracy.

we are starting to look at Carlson but there is another learning curve. will that product be compatable with the Trimble and Topcon equipment.

placing the survey database files in the project dir works for us. i just need IT to change the permissions

so the engineers can't mess with the points!

 

 

 

-Sean
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Just a CAD Manager for a Civil Engineering firm...
Win 7 pro 12gb
NVIDIA Quadro 2000
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IDS 2014
Distinguished Contributor
jefflambert9091
Posts: 117
Registered: ‎09-12-2008
Message 9 of 16 (2,459 Views)

Re: Survey Point Database

03-08-2012 06:56 AM in reply to: sturner7277

I have followed the discussions on the survey database and I agree with Sinc. I look at it like dealing with a difficult public agency, whether you like it or not, that’s the way it is and we deal with it best we can. I will say it has improved our productivity on topo’s. Using the survey database with the transformation tab has its powers too.

*Expert Elite*
Sinc
Posts: 6,207
Registered: ‎11-18-2006
Message 10 of 16 (2,432 Views)

Re: Survey Point Database

03-09-2012 10:17 AM in reply to: sturner7277

Through years of experience with C3D, I still find the SDB to be a huge waste of time.  I recorded a brief demo of some of the techniques I use on our website, if you haven't watched it already:

 

http://www.quuxsoft.com/videos/ProcessingSurveyData.aspx

 

There are more techniques not shown in that video...  I'll have to create some more, when I get a chance.  Right now, we're pretty busy with the new Sincpac-C3D v2.20 release (hopefully posted later today, or at least sometime this weekend), as well as a new mostly-.NET v3.0 release for 2013 that we're trying to get working.

 

But in general, we've reached the point where we'd rather work with .csv (or .txt, if you prefer) over FBK.

 

As far as the Transformation Tab goes, I'm not a fan.  But I realize it has value when dealing with "old-style" setups.  For example, we're now using it to equate some old "plant coordinates" for a Power Plant with State Plane.  But again, it leaves a lot to be desired, since Map cannot use the Transformation Tab.  That creates lots of problems when trying to include aerial photos, GIS data, etc.  So if at all possible, I try to avoid the Tranformation Tab at all costs.  I view it as a "last resort".

Sinc
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