Survey Figure's... whats the point?

[lhampton]

So, ive given up. This feature is pretty much useless and creates a TON more work for me and the other guys switching from LDT. I would like to know if there is anyway to make lines come in and NOT BE SURVEY FIGURES. I would LOVE to have my NORMAL 2D POLYLINES back. So would the 25 survey engineers that I work with.

Is this even possible in this pice of junk extremly expensive software?

[MarySeufert]

Jason,

Your arguments are a moot point. Either embrace Civil3D with all of its flaws and benefits, or continue to rant and rave that LDD is better, and as a result be ignored as an irritant by the community. Participate in the BETA program to influence the future releases to better suit Surveyor's needs. Nobody here can change Autodesk's decision to drop LDD (BTW made over 7 years ago). MOVE ON!!! Or better yet switch to Carlson and go argue on their peer support boards that LDD is better.

Arguing over LDD vs. C3D is counterproductive to the point of these discussion groups, to help others use the current product in the best way. Once you have figured out how to best use the survey figures features, report back and help out.

~ Mary

[Jasono2009]

Hey Mary, The intent was not to be an irritant, simply to shed realism to the board. I'm actually trying help by saying that was wasn't broke in LDD did not need to be improved. Survey worked fine in LDD - your sales figures and feedback should have shown that. In fact I do not recall ever talking to a surveyor who did not embrace LDD. It was relatively simple (except the project folder structure) and worked flawlessly. It was as bulletproof as a software gets. C3D on the other hand has been very frustrating to the survey community. My suggestion to improve? Hire surveyors with practical experience and let them drive the survey module. Thanks, Jason

[Jeff_M]

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@Jasono2009 wrote:
...... In fact I do not recall ever talking to a surveyor who did not embrace LDD. ....

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I work regularly with a surveyor who hates LDD, so much so that, even though he bought it, he still uses R10 with DCA. He thinks he's still productive with it so sees no reason to change. Of course, it's a real pain in the backside to share drawings with him.

[Jasono2009]

He may have came over on the Mayflower.

[MarySeufert]

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@Jeff_M wrote:

I work regularly with a surveyor who hates LDD, so much so that, even though he bought it, he still uses R10 with DCA.

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My boss used to be a sales rep for DCA back in the day, and knows it like the back of his hand, also loves it and threatens to break it out every now and then when I go on vacation! I just rap him on the knuckles with my slide rule.

[nmessina]

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@mathewkol wrote:

@ @lhampton

 [...All I want is to import lines as 2d polys and not feature lines. Do any of you Civil geniuses know how to do that?]

This question has already been answered.  C3D will not create 2d polylines automatically for you.  Let the figures happen then flatten and explode them.  It'll take you about a minute.  Then unlock the points in the drawing.  Another 22 seconds.  Now forget about the survey DB and now you have a DWG with points and legacy 2d polylines.  Edit like you always have.

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Matt,

With all due respect, Surveyors should not "forget" about the Survey DB!  As a licensed Professional Surveyor and Mapper, there is a reason and purpose why Surveyors demanded a Locked external Survey Database.  The Surveyors, I know and work with do not want a drawing with unlocked points COGO points. We require points to be locked Survey Point to protect the integrity of our survey and our licenses. Many, not all Engineers and/or Drafters, have no concept as to the integrity of a Survey Point.   I've seen drafters move points in our survey drawing to make the drawing "look" better or to fit there design object in the drawing. I've seen them move a labels without realizing the "unlocked" points also moved.

Basically a drawing with unlock points is just a pretty picture and not a survey. 

[mathewkol]

Nmessina: Agreed, I was indicating a method of how to edit auto-generated linework as 2D polylines as some have asked.

[_Hathaway]

To the OP.  We experienced your frustrations when moving from LDD to CIvil3d....3d being the key.  In 3d everything is in 3d.  We flatten our survey points to 0 elevation in our point styles but all of our topo linework is in 3d.  That's just the way it is OOTB. We just learned to live with it and so have our Engineering drafters. As a surveyor I find it painful to have 3d topo features in my topo as it makes distance queries useless. 

There are ways to get 2d polylines quickly as many have noted in some of the above 47 comments.

[rl_jackson]

I need the lines to be 3d, Im doing a topo.

[wfberry]

"... topo as it makes distance queries useless."

I have a toolbar icon called "Toggle Z" (osnapz).  Set it to 1.  Eliminates that problem.

Bill

[Joe-Bouza]

There are myriad third party apps to draw polylines on the internet. Have you considered that? Roll with it and get on with the job. There are lots of good things about c3d and lots of [sic] bad things.

Usually the bad things are due to lack of understanding (no aspersions intended) I remember my first FL experience was dreadful, but now I welcome them.

[AllenJessup]

I was wondering when someone was going to mention 3rd party programs line SmartDraft, Toolpac and Sincpac. They have the ability to extract 2D polylines while leaving the original entities intact. No need for exploding.

As far as the usefulness of C3D in Surveying. It works. A lot would like to see it improved. I usually don't recommend it for a Survey only shop. But if the Engineers use it, you need to be on the same page. Transferring from LDD is doable and not too bad. C3D to LDD is somewhat doable but not all that good and a pain to do on a regular basis.

Allen

[jmayo-EE]

We use C3D's auto linework exclusivly. We like it much better than LDD because LDD couldn't create linework without a fieldbook which never would convert correct for us so we had to edit every import. Then we got 3rd party apps to do auto linework in LDD and then C3D. Robert Steltman's Breakline Designer worked great for us but we dropped the 3rd party apps when C3D had the ability to import point files vs fieldbooks as part of cost cutting measures.We have been using C3D's figures with a great success for a few years now. Like everything else these tools are not perfect but they save us time and we rarely need to edit the files we import. If figure errors appear it is because it was coded incorrectly. GIGO. When this happens we explode it and convert to feature line. This process takes about 5 seconds and does not offend any of our surveyors. We speak to the field crew and they correct the coding on the next job. We would never go back after using every release of C3D, LDD and two releases of Softdesk.

[Joe-Bouza]

I don't know the first thing of figures or auto linework, but is c3d has autolinework what is the OP's beef?

[owenmull]

I suspect, Joe, that the OP as well as Jasono2009 dont know how to use C3D, and rather than learning it on their own, or finding a feasible solution, as has been posted above, they would rather come on a forum and gripe and be an irritant about it.

C3D is the survey package you're dealt. Face reality, deal with it, and move on. LDD is, and has been, obselete. Sorry.

This is a wonderful forum, and it's the place to learn and ask questions. As mentioned earlier, Jasono2009's argument is irrelevant. This is a C3D forum, intended for C3D only.

[Jasono2009]

Hey Owen, The challenge is still open.

[jmayo-EE]

As for the challange Jason, there is no comparison in our office. Reducing a topo in C3D is at least two or three times faster and we don't need 3rd party software to produce linework and be profitable. Topo, parcel descriptions, grading, subdivisions, pipes, everything is faster and easier with C3D for us. It may have taken us some time to setup and fully understand how C3D works but it took the same with LDD's drawing settings, prototype settings, point settings, description key settings and so on.

[jmayo-EE]

A bit off topic but as per C3D vs LDD, we had a finished plan set with site grading, pipes, retaining wall profiles, driveway profiles and some more fun stuff. The surveyor told us just as we were about to print that the datum was wrong. I fixed the entire plan sheet set in 2 hours. We had this happen 9 yrs ago when we were using LDD and it took a day and a half to get it to print. One person here believes we had two users correcting it in LDD.

There is no comparison. LDD is retired tech. And if you think it was great you should search the old LDD newsgroups and see the rants from surveyors and engineers complaining how they were the odd balls out in the Autodesk family, how they never saw any improvements in thier app, how this didn't work and that didn't work and how they were the forgotten users. At least that is part of what I recall from those days.

[owenmull]

Jason, your juvenile challenges are growing tired. When are you going to face facts? You have several people on here tellling you LDD is obselete, C3D is better, yet you still insist. You even have a couple C3D PROS telling you that C3D is vastly superioir to LDD. When are you going to give it up?

I've seen your type. I bet you're the surveyor who sets a Section Corner 0.5' from another existing original corner.

Run along now, Jason.

[Jasono2009]

Read the original post - we're talking about surveying. I don't need 3rd party software to process linework either. I use the tools given.