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Survey Figure's... whats the point?

72 REPLIES 72
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Message 1 of 73
lhampton
2973 Views, 72 Replies

Survey Figure's... whats the point?

So, ive given up. This feature is pretty much useless and creates a TON more work for me and the other guys switching from LDT. I would like to know if there is anyway to make lines come in and NOT BE SURVEY FIGURES. I would LOVE to have my NORMAL 2D POLYLINES back. So would the 25 survey engineers that I work with.

 

Is this even possible in this pice of junk extremly expensive software?

Intel i7 2600 /z68 Gigabyte
8gigs DDR3 1800
Intel 320 Series SSD
Quadro 600 (1gig)
C3D 2016 / LDT 2009 / Win7 x64
72 REPLIES 72
Message 21 of 73
tcorey
in reply to: owenmull

 

I still find certain things I could do faster using DOS than I can with Windows. That doesn't mean I'm going to hang on to DOS. There are too many other benefits of Windows.

 

I'm just saying...

 

Tim

 



Tim Corey
MicroCAD Training and Consulting, Inc.
Redding, CA
Autodesk Gold Reseller

New knowledge is the most valuable commodity on earth. -- Kurt Vonnegut
Message 22 of 73
owenmull
in reply to: tcorey

Keep on saying, Tim!

-Owen
Windows 7 x 64 bit

Civil 3D 2017
______________________________________________________________
Usually, I find that the problem is between the keyboard and the chair.
Message 23 of 73
jonathan
in reply to: owenmull

I'm debating the same question having finally moved on from Carlson for Land Desktop.  Any thoughs on 3rd party software like SmartDraft's PConnect? 

Message 24 of 73
sboon
in reply to: jonathan

My comment for the OP.

 

Over the last seven years I would bet that 90% of the people on this board have made the exact same transition from LDT to Civil3d.  Darn near every single one of those people (including me) started out by trying to use polylines the way that we were used to, and hated featurelines because they were "impossible to work with."

 

A huge majority of those people have already realized that the benefits of having intelligent, dynamic, 3d objects in drawings outweigh the costs of creating and manipulating them.  I certainly agree that survey figures are not for everyone but there are procedures that work for creating the surface breaklines and linework for display purposes.

 

Newcomers can repeat the old arguments - we've heard them all before, or they can accept the fact that a lot of us have already been there and done that.

 

Steve
Expert Elite Alumnus
Message 25 of 73
lhampton
in reply to: sboon

"A huge majority of those people have already realized that the benefits of having intelligent, dynamic, 3d objects in drawings outweigh the costs of creating and manipulating them."

 

Having un-editable, hardly working "features" that require a whole training class just to be able to make an out-of order line correct (during which the instructors PC crashed C3d , 2 times) does not seem beneficial to me in anyway.

 

Coming from a 11 year surveyor, they are a gimmick that we are being forced to use without any real world tests. WE pay an EXTREMLY large amount of money each year to deal with this terrible piece of software. Cool, I get it C3d is for ENGINEERS what about the other 50% of that whole process (THE SURVEY DEPARTMENT) we are being left out in the cold with truly worthless "features" that are CLEARLY not tested. 

 

All I want is to import lines as 2d polys and not feature lines. Do any of you Civil geniuses know how to do that?

 

 

Edited by
Discussion_Admin

Intel i7 2600 /z68 Gigabyte
8gigs DDR3 1800
Intel 320 Series SSD
Quadro 600 (1gig)
C3D 2016 / LDT 2009 / Win7 x64
Message 26 of 73
mathewkol
in reply to: lhampton

@lhampton

 [...All I want is to import lines as 2d polys and not feature lines. Do any of you Civil geniuses know how to do that?]

 

This question has already been answered.  C3D will not create 2d polylines automatically for you.  Let the figures happen then flatten and explode them.  It'll take you about a minute.  Then unlock the points in the drawing.  Another 22 seconds.  Now forget about the survey DB and now you have a DWG with points and legacy 2d polylines.  Edit like you always have.

Matt Kolberg
SolidCAD Professional Services
http://www.solidcad.ca /
Message 27 of 73
Jasono2009
in reply to: tcorey

Still waiting on anyone here to prove that C3D is faster than LDD at processing a topo survey. My challenge is still open.

 

Closed circuit to the last post - we are not talking about design here. This post is about the survey module. I agree the civil aspects - grading, hydro, corridors, etc. are much improved from LDD. You might say lights years ahead. Survey however is 100% not. A definite leap backwards. Anyone having experience with it agrees, including our distributor.

 

thanks,

Jason

Message 28 of 73
Jasono2009
in reply to: tcorey

Hey Tim Corey -

 

Then explain to us how a surveyor benefits moving on to C3D from LDD?

Message 29 of 73
Jasono2009
in reply to: owenmull

owenmull-

 

I know the answer, but will ask anyway - how many years of survey experience do you have?

Message 30 of 73
rl_jackson
in reply to: Jasono2009

I really don't thin either of those questions apply. It your C3D experience that should be questioned


Rick Jackson
Survey CAD Technician VI

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Message 31 of 73
Jasono2009
in reply to: rl_jackson

That's what I thought. Thanks
Message 32 of 73
tcorey
in reply to: Jasono2009


@Jasono2009 wrote:

Hey Tim Corey -

 

Then explain to us how a surveyor benefits moving on to C3D from LDD?


Let's see:

1. Surface object remembers all of your edits and lets you select which to apply.

2. Surface activitiy can be moved up and down the list so a boundary applied before edits along the edge can be moved below those edits and does not have to be re-created.

3. Point group remembers its properties so that styles can be applied and held even if points are re-imported.

4. Use of No Display point group allows isolation of point groups without using layers. (!)

5. Surface volumes are faster/easier and 2013 has the volumes dashboard. (2012 does, too, if you download from Subscription Center.)

 

That's all I have time for. Have a great day and keep these discussions going!

 

Tim

 


 



Tim Corey
MicroCAD Training and Consulting, Inc.
Redding, CA
Autodesk Gold Reseller

New knowledge is the most valuable commodity on earth. -- Kurt Vonnegut
Message 33 of 73
Jasono2009
in reply to: tcorey

>From your list of points, I agree volumes are much faster, but no.s 1, 2, 4 are fluff, and no. 3 you could do with LDD. The cost difference for a surveyor moving from LDD to C3D is not worth it in my opinion.
Message 34 of 73
owenmull
in reply to: Jasono2009


@Jasono2009 wrote:
>From your list of points, I agree volumes are much faster, but no.s 1, 2, 4 are fluff, and no. 3 you could do with LDD. The cost difference for a surveyor moving from LDD to C3D is not worth it in my opinion.

Well, that's your opinion, wrong as it may be. 

 

I'm quite familiar with C3D and familiar with LDD. Sorry, LDD loses. 

 

Autodesk aimed to create a product that encompasses the surveying AND design in one package. LDD was never really geared for both, and for what it was geared for, it was extremely limited in scope and functionality. C3D uses a similar yet more complex approach, thereby allowing it to become infinitely more versatile, customizable, and useful than LDD ever was. LDD was great in its own time, but now is mostly obsolete. 

 

You're in a pit of quicksand here, Jasono2009, because the harder you fight, the further you sink. I'd suggest simply cutting your losses.

-Owen
Windows 7 x 64 bit

Civil 3D 2017
______________________________________________________________
Usually, I find that the problem is between the keyboard and the chair.
Message 35 of 73
Jasono2009
in reply to: owenmull

Owen - what do you mean wrong opinion? With regards to this topic I don't care what design capabilities C3D has. Nor do most surveyors. We are talking about surveying. And few surveyors perform design work. If they did we would not need engineers (and I say this as a PE). The basic idea is to have a software to import points, process a topo, draft the survey - perhaps a preliminary plat (or equivalent) or boundary survey will be made from it. So, again, explain to me how C3D can do this better than even Carlson Survey? And how can you justify the upgrade cost difference to a survey office? At the end it comes down to time and money. For surveying C3D loses by all accounts.
Message 36 of 73
owenmull
in reply to: Jasono2009

What you're arguing here is akin to eating soup with a fork (LDD). Why not spend the extra money and get a spoon, or better yet, a soup spoon (C3D) designed for eating soup? Not te mention the value of the time savings. Forgive the analogy, but it illustrates my point. You're not technically wrong in saying that LDD will do some of the things C3D does, but it does not do them as fast or as easily as C3D, nor as flexible. 

 

All those things you mentioned - preliminary plat, topos, drafts of surveys, etc. are much more easily accomplished in C3D than LDD, I assure you. The only reason you may disagree is that you do not know C3D well enough, and it takes time to learn a new product. That's fine. There are several classes, webinars, manuals, help files, etc. that you can use in order to learn it. My hunch is you dont have a firm grasp on the surveying sie of C3D, but you've been using LDD for years and are "stuck" in the old software. C3D can do so much more, it just takes some time to learn it. Good luck!

-Owen
Windows 7 x 64 bit

Civil 3D 2017
______________________________________________________________
Usually, I find that the problem is between the keyboard and the chair.
Message 37 of 73
Jasono2009
in reply to: owenmull

Owen- Wrong on all accounts. I've used C3D since 2009. I've used it so much that I currently have a 'best practice' draft in progress. In addition to being a Civil PE I am a licensed surveyor in multiple states, and a federal licensed land surveyor. I used LDD (including the Softdesk version) since 1997. I also taught Autocad at a university for 2 years and a technical college for 1 year. While I agree C3D is the answer for most civil design applications (with the exception of mass haul), it is substandard for most surveying applications because 1. It is slower or offers no change in benefit. 2. The cost-benefit ratio doesn't equate. When it comes to plats C3D may be able to subdivide lots faster but can it process a topo survey faster? Absolutely not.
Message 38 of 73
Cadguru42
in reply to: Jasono2009


@Jasono2009 wrote:
Owen- Wrong on all accounts. I've used C3D since 2009. I've used it so much that I currently have a 'best practice' draft in progress. In addition to being a Civil PE I am a licensed surveyor in multiple states, and a federal licensed land surveyor. I used LDD (including the Softdesk version) since 1997. I also taught Autocad at a university for 2 years and a technical college for 1 year. While I agree C3D is the answer for most civil design applications (with the exception of mass haul), it is substandard for most surveying applications because 1. It is slower or offers no change in benefit. 2. The cost-benefit ratio doesn't equate. When it comes to plats C3D may be able to subdivide lots faster but can it process a topo survey faster? Absolutely not.

Are you sure about that? I just took a 3487 point survey this morning from a CSV file, uploaded it into a new survey database, and got all my figures & symbols placed in my drawing in about 45 seconds.  Because I flag what figures are breaklines, I just create a survey query that takes any figure marked as a breakline and add it to a surface.  My topo is already done.  Took about three minutes to create the topo and it'll take me about ten minutes to add labels & create a layout.

 

Now you tell me if LDD can create a 3500 point topo, have everything on the correct layers and styles, and have a contour map prepared with labels in about 15 minutes.

C3D 2022-2024
Windows 10 Pro
32GB RAM
Message 39 of 73
tcorey
in reply to: Jasono2009


@Jasono2009 wrote:
>From your list of points, I agree volumes are much faster, but no.s 1, 2, 4 are fluff, and no. 3 you could do with LDD. The cost difference for a surveyor moving from LDD to C3D is not worth it in my opinion.

Fluff? Not to me. I find those features very important.

 

Regarding no. 3, Land Desktop allowed you to set display properties based on a point group, but it did not remember those settings as point group properties, so they would change if you re-imported the points. There was not even a vestige of a point group display hierarchy.



Tim Corey
MicroCAD Training and Consulting, Inc.
Redding, CA
Autodesk Gold Reseller

New knowledge is the most valuable commodity on earth. -- Kurt Vonnegut
Message 40 of 73
Jasono2009
in reply to: Cadguru42

Probably yes -my description keys will ensure everything falls on the correct layer, automated point-line will generate the breaklines, I then isolate my breakpoints, run breaklines, then running contours takes little time. I might spend a few minutes inspecting the contours and linework looking for field coding issues. Could I do it in 15 minutes? I'd have to see the dataset to know for sure, but provided the field crews coded the descriptors correctly, then yes.

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