Strange Layer Control Problem in C3D 2013

[tr4driver]

Greetings,

I have a drawing that I'm working on that includes existing and proposed storm sewer networks.  I've set up two different styles to control the way each displays with layers set up for each type.  I have layers for the pipes, structures and text for both proposed and existing.  In trying to create an "existing" plan (with no proposed features) I've run into a strange problem.  I can VP freeze all of the layers that the proposed items are on, and everything looks fine until I try to plot or do a regen, then all of the text disappears, even though it's on a layer that is no frozen.  After VP freezing the layers one at I time, I've discovered that the problem is specifically tied to the layer that the proposed structures are on.  When I freeze this layer, it also freezes the text.

Something else...  It also freezes the text associated with the sanitary sewer network, even though it too is defined by completely different styles.  VP freezing the layer that the sanitary sewer structures are on does not affect the display of the text in any way.

Anyone have any ideas?  This is very confusing and I've double checked all my layer settings in styles and can find no reason why the drawing would behave this way.

Kurt

[Anonymous · Accepted solution]

I think this is by design. When you freeze a layer that an object is on all labels referencing that object will turn off regardless of what layer the labels are on.

[tr4driver]

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@Anonymous wrote:

I think this is by design. When you freeze a layer that an object is on all labels referencing that object will turn off regardless of what layer the labels are on.

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Thanks for the response Jon.  Maybe I wasn't clear.  I'm not freezing the layer that the existing structures are on.  I'm only freezing the layer that the proposed structures are on.  When I freeze that layer, it turns off the text for the existing storm drainage structures, the proposed storm drainage structures *and* the text for the sewer structures.  I have verified that all three text labels are on different styles and all three utilize different layers.

There is some connection to the layer that I have set up for the proposed structures and the pipe network labels.  I just can't figure out how to track it down.  I've created yet another style/layer for proposed structures and put them all on it.  I can freeze it without affecting the text.  Very strange.

Kurt

[Jeff_M]

Kurt, when trying to track down these types of issues it would really help us help you if you could post the drawing, or a link to it, so we can see the same thing you are. Otherwise it turns into a huge guessing game. Not that we can always figure out what's going on, even with the drawing, but most of the time you will get a solution rather quickly.

[tr4driver]

Jeff,

I'll try to attach a file.  It's a very easy situation to duplicate.  Just start a new drawing and select the C3D (Imperial) template, then create a simple storm pipe network using the default  styles for storm.  If you freeze the layer that the storm drainage structures are on (C-STRM-STRC in the case of my drawing), the structure label text will remain visible until a regen is executed.

The sample drawing includes both a storm network and a sewer network.  As I explained, when the C-STRM-STRC layer is frozen, all of the structure label text on both networks is turned off (after a regen).  However, if I just freeze the layer for the sewer structure (CSSWR-STRC), the label text is unaffected.

I can't find any connection between the C-STRM-STRC layer and the label styles.  This has me baffled.

Kurt

[Jeff_M · Accepted solution]

ALL of the structures (SS & Strm) are on layer C-STRM-STRC. So when it it frozen, so too are the labels associated with those structures.

[tr4driver]

Ah... I see now Jeff.  Why does C3D do that?  I had just assumed that the structures were placed on the layer defined in the style.  I never realized that the layer that the objects were actually being placed on was defined separately (I've found it now).

I'm still a little unclear as to why the label text is turned off just because the structure is frozen.  I often find myself placing the structures into a top as symbols at existing structures (which may be oddly shaped and already drawn).  I then freeze the layer that the C3D structure is on and leave the note.  It's just that I have always had the existing and proposed style layers on at the same time in the past and never realized that the only reason this method worked was because my existing structures were actually being drawn on the proposed structure label.

Thanks for the help.

Kurt

[tmullins]

It sounds like Object Layers rearing it's ugly head again. Some may like it, but I have never had a use for it since day one of using C3D. Just adds yet another level of layer hierarchy and results in confusion like you are running into.

For instance the OOTB Imperial template has Sructures assigned to C-STRM-STRC. So if a user freezes C-STRM-STRC expecting just their storm structures to turn off they are going to be in for a big surprise if they have other networks they expect to stay turned on.

Now exactly why would anyone expect structures on C-SSWR-STRC to turn off because I just froze C-STRM-STRC?

[Anonymous]

Did you look at the check toggle on the object layers at the bottom of the screen? That would place the labels independent of the objects and the behavior that you expect can happen.

[cmkrenek]

Can you show in a screenshot where this "check toggle on the object layers" is?