So wait... are Data Shortcuts working now?

[russc]

First, I want to apologize for beginning this discussion with a rant, but I have a lot to say. I feel like I have been falsely led to believe that Vault was the only workable solution for effectively sharing object data. I feel as if Autodesk’s “commitment” to its subscription customers to provide a new release every year, has created what I can only call a “horse before the cart” situation.

As a decision maker, I rely heavily on the white-papers, web casts, discussion groups, and other recourses made available through Autodesk. The bottom line: I feel that Vault has been grossly oversold. After spending over $4000 for SQL server and professional setup and configuration of our Vault server, I find that Vault does not work at all as I was led to believe that it would.

Sure the copy in the vault is secure, and has version tracking, but in order to use Vault, you check out a “working copy” which has no restrictions on it whatsoever! That leaves me the option of having people work with local copies that don’t get backed up, and must be checked in before anyone else can see the changes; or work with shared copies that anyone could browse to through explorer, make changes to, send out, etc. with none of the safeguards that Vault promoted.

If I ever want to be able to use Sheet Set Manager, I have to go with the second option, essentially throwing out any security that Vault could offer, but still having the burden of administering vault, training, and a whole new layer of bugs and potential file corruption.

We have already invested thousands in training, and I'm having a hard enough time getting my users to transition to Civil 3D (correctly use C3D drawing templates, understand styles, understand dynamic labeling, etc) without having to re-teach them how to open a drawing.

So, extremely frustrated, I decide to lay my options out on the table, and create side by side comparison based on our standard workflow. In doing so, I thought it would be a good idea to revisit data shortcuts, and compare using the data shortcuts, to using Vault, and everything that would be required to implement.

Now, I had tried using data shortcuts in 2006, seemed to work great… until you close and reopen the reference drawing. My experience with this was that every time you open a drawing containing referenced objects, you had to re-establish the data references manually. Based on discussions I’ve had with several prominent instructors and other users, I believed that this was normal behavior, and was the primary reason for working within the project environment. Still, faced with the terror if transitioning all of our projects to vault, and completely reworking or file system structure and workflow, data shortcuts were starting to sound a little more appealing.

This brings us to yesterday. I begin by opening up a drawing which already contains a C3D surface. Then I create the data shortcut and export the shortcut to XML. Then, I open another drawing which contains some alignments and profiles based on the same surface, only for this exercise, I delete the surface which existed in the drawing, and replace it with a data reference of the surface in the other file. As expected, I have to recreate my EG profiles, but that’s easy enough. So, now I’m ready to save and close.

Now past experience tells me that when I reopen this drawing, I will not see the surface, and if I go to my panorama pane, all the data references will be broken. Low and behold, I open the alignments and profiles drawing, and to my astonishment, THERE’S MY SURFACE!!! Not quite ready to count my chickens, I proceed to create data shortcuts from the alignments and profiles in this drawing. Everything goes smoothly, I reference these into a new drawing to create a mock sheet drawing, create a profile view, and voila! I close out, reopen (it’s all still there!!!). I even go into the original drawing, lengthen one of the vertical curves and save, and in my second drawing I get a wonderful little balloon notification that once of my data references need updating!

Long story short, everything regarding data shortcuts seems to be working just as I always thought it should. Every reason we made the decision to use Vault just went away.

So guys, am I crazy? What’s going on here? Was the previous disfunctionality of data shortcuts just a glaring software bug that went unfixed for 2 versions and 5 service packs? Was Vault just a distraction?

Please, I want to hear other people’s experiences with this. Is anyone happy with Vault? Is it really necessary? And was my earth shattering experience with the shortcuts yesterday just a fluke?

I would greatly appreciate any feedback that anyone has to offer. Thank you.

[Anonymous]

Did I overlook what you are using? 2007 or 2008. I will not answer a "for
sure", but I believe the "broken" data shortcut was mended in the last SP of
2007. Someone with more knowledge than me can answer since I currently do
not need either DS or Vault.

I just thought that the 2007 or 2008 may need to be addressed before it got
any further.

Bill


wrote in message news:5613979@discussion.autodesk.com...
First, I want to apologize for beginning this discussion with a rant, but I
have a lot to say. I feel like I have been falsely led to believe that
Vault was the only workable solution for effectively sharing object data. I
feel as if Autodesk's "commitment" to its subscription customers to provide
a new release every year, has created what I can only call a "horse before
the cart" situation.

[Anonymous]

"THERE'S MY SURFACE!!!"

This functionality of data shortcuts was restored (or added) in C3D 2007
sp3, I believe.

Understand that the underlying technology of how data is referenced is
pretty much the same for Vault and Data Shortcuts. One might say that Vault
packages it more nicely though.

Sincerely,
Drew Burgasser
CAD Masters, Inc.
www.cadmasters.com


wrote in message news:5613979@discussion.autodesk.com...
First, I want to apologize for beginning this discussion with a rant, but I
have a lot to say. I feel like I have been falsely led to believe that
Vault was the only workable solution for effectively sharing object data. I
feel as if Autodesk's "commitment" to its subscription customers to provide
a new release every year, has created what I can only call a "horse before
the cart" situation.

As a decision maker, I rely heavily on the white-papers, web casts,
discussion groups, and other recourses made available through Autodesk. The
bottom line: I feel that Vault has been grossly oversold. After spending
over $4000 for SQL server and professional setup and configuration of our
Vault server, I find that Vault does not work at all as I was led to believe
that it would.

Sure the copy in the vault is secure, and has version tracking, but in order
to use Vault, you check out a "working copy" which has no restrictions on it
whatsoever! That leaves me the option of having people work with local
copies that don't get backed up, and must be checked in before anyone else
can see the changes; or work with shared copies that anyone could browse to
through explorer, make changes to, send out, etc. with none of the
safeguards that Vault promoted.

If I ever want to be able to use Sheet Set Manager, I have to go with the
second option, essentially throwing out any security that Vault could offer,
but still having the burden of administering vault, training, and a whole
new layer of bugs and potential file corruption.

We have already invested thousands in training, and I'm having a hard enough
time getting my users to transition to Civil 3D (correctly use C3D drawing
templates, understand styles, understand dynamic labeling, etc) without
having to re-teach them how to open a drawing.

So, extremely frustrated, I decide to lay my options out on the table, and
create side by side comparison based on our standard workflow. In doing so,
I thought it would be a good idea to revisit data shortcuts, and compare
using the data shortcuts, to using Vault, and everything that would be
required to implement.

Now, I had tried using data shortcuts in 2006, seemed to work great. until
you close and reopen the reference drawing. My experience with this was
that every time you open a drawing containing referenced objects, you had to
re-establish the data references manually. Based on discussions I've had
with several prominent instructors and other users, I believed that this was
normal behavior, and was the primary reason for working within the project
environment. Still, faced with the terror if transitioning all of our
projects to vault, and completely reworking or file system structure and
workflow, data shortcuts were starting to sound a little more appealing.

This brings us to yesterday. I begin by opening up a drawing which already
contains a C3D surface. Then I create the data shortcut and export the
shortcut to XML. Then, I open another drawing which contains some
alignments and profiles based on the same surface, only for this exercise, I
delete the surface which existed in the drawing, and replace it with a data
reference of the surface in the other file. As expected, I have to recreate
my EG profiles, but that's easy enough. So, now I'm ready to save and close.

Now past experience tells me that when I reopen this drawing, I will not see
the surface, and if I go to my panorama pane, all the data references will
be broken. Low and behold, I open the alignments and profiles drawing, and
to my astonishment, THERE'S MY SURFACE!!! Not quite ready to count my
chickens, I proceed to create data shortcuts from the alignments and
profiles in this drawing. Everything goes smoothly, I reference these into
a new drawing to create a mock sheet drawing, create a profile view, and
voila! I close out, reopen (it's all still there!!!). I even go into the
original drawing, lengthen one of the vertical curves and save, and in my
second drawing I get a wonderful little balloon notification that once of my
data references need updating!

Long story short, everything regarding data shortcuts seems to be working
just as I always thought it should. Every reason we made the decision to
use Vault just went away.

So guys, am I crazy? What's going on here? Was the previous
disfunctionality of data shortcuts just a glaring software bug that went
unfixed for 2 versions and 5 service packs? Was Vault just a distraction?

Please, I want to hear other people's experiences with this. Is anyone
happy with Vault? Is it really necessary? And was my earth shattering
experience with the shortcuts yesterday just a fluke?

I would greatly appreciate any feedback that anyone has to offer. Thank
you.

[russc]

Currently 2007 SP3

[Anonymous]

russcurrington wrote:
> Currently 2007 SP3

There's the SP that "fixed" data shortcuts.

The security issues that you talk about are very well addressed with
Vault - you can put folder-level restrictions on users or groups of users.

Your SSM issues are null and void now since the Sheet Set can be checked
into Vault.

I thought you relied on discussion groups as a decision maker? These
issues have been discussed in great depth (ESPECIALLY the data shortcut
issue) on this discussion group.

Long story short (and Drew addressed this very well) - Vault and Data
Shortcuts do the same thing, Vault just automates the process and
provides a much more secure interface. How many users do you have?
Was that $4000 SQL server necessary? (It may have been, depending on
your office setup) And with the capability of having the working
folder reside on the network, why can't they be backed up?

Research it in depth - once the lightbulb comes on (it took a while for
me) - you'll find that Vault isn't the monster you think it is.

Just waiting around for Postlewait - he should be in momemtarily 😉

--
Jason Hickey

Civil 3D 2008
Dell Precision M70
2 GIG RAM, 256 MB nVidia Quadro FX Go1400
Intel Centrino 2 gHz Processor

www.civil3d.com

[Anonymous]

Russ,
I haven't seen a good Vault rant up here for a long time.
I had my share about a year ago. Not quite as well worded or reasoned as yours but with more #%$*.
Bottom line.
We haven't had any problems with Vault to speak of.
My end users after some time getting used to it preferred to keep on it after sp3 re-invented data shortcuts.
Just finished building my 2008 Vault this morning, and trying to pick a time to upgrade the office to the newest version.

Good Friday afternoon rant though.

[russc]

I'm sorry that I don't have the luxury of being able to follow the discussion groups every day, so I only find what I specifically search for. I was unaware that SSM now worked within vault, as every whitepaper i've read makes no mention of it.

Also, in regards to security, I realize that the copy in Vault is secure, but it's the working copy that I have concerns about, and quite frankly, it goes 100% against our company standards to have multiple copies of ANY file.

Now, you say "Vault and Data Shortcuts do the same thing". This is a very bold statement, and it is only very recently that anyone has made that admission. We have been making considerations for Vault for over a year. The wheels were already in motion, and I think its fair to say that a year ago, the word was that Vault was the only way to go.

As for the expense, 1 week after I placed the order for our new server, I read a blog detailing how you could use the Free SQL Server Express, so no, the $2665 SQL 2005 was not necessary (vendor install of Vault cost $1500), but it's now too late.

That's my problem with this, and why I say it's like the horse before the cart. How can we keep a competitive edge and stay ahead of the curve, when we're being fed expensive solutions up front, then a couple of months later, the good solution is presented for free?

I'm not going to rule out Vault just yet, but I am very frustrated with the whole situation.

I think it's great news that the Data Shortcuts are now fully functional, I just wish I'd known about it when I was busy selling my managers on Vault last year.

[Anonymous]

I have a couple of clients that use Vault and they are quite happy with it.
The others are correct, the Data Referencing technology is the same in Vault
and Data Shortcuts.

I've never been a Vault fanatic (or data shortcuts for that matter), I
believe there should be a better way, but I know a bit about both of them
and I can make them both work nicely.

A small project can use either. A very large project will eventually break
down if you use too many data shortcut files and objects. They are just too
hard to manage yourself. Vault, in this case, is the better way to go i nmy
opinion.

Matt

[Anonymous]

russcurrington wrote:
> I'm sorry that I don't have the luxury of being able to follow the
> discussion groups every day, so I only find what I specifically
> search for. I was unaware that SSM now worked within vault, as every
> whitepaper i've read makes no mention of it.

With 2008, it does. There are no new whitepapers yet on that.
And you were the one that made reference to utilizing all this
information - I merely pointed out that the information was there. And
for some people, this isn't a luxury, it's a tool that enables us to do
out job better.

> Also, in regards to security, I realize that the copy in Vault is
> secure, but it's the working copy that I have concerns about, and
> quite frankly, it goes 100% against our company standards to have
> multiple copies of ANY file.

What kind of security are you looking for? I'm just curious...

> Now, you say "Vault and Data Shortcuts do the same thing". This is a
> very bold statement, and it is only very recently that anyone has
> made that admission. We have been making considerations for Vault
> for over a year. The wheels were already in motion, and I think its
> fair to say that a year ago, the word was that Vault was the only way
> to go.

Why is this a bold statement? I heard the statement being made many
months ago - just because you haven't heard it doesn't mean that it's
only been recently made. A year ago, Vault WAS the only way to go
since Data Shortcuts were so broken. I've never been a fan of data
shortcuts, even since R2006 - they require too much user intervention,
discipline, and maintenance. You say you don't want to teach users new
ways to open drawings, yet you're willing to undertake training them on
the manual way of sharing data.

> As for the expense, 1 week after I placed the order for our new
> server, I read a blog detailing how you could use the Free SQL Server
> Express, so no, the $2665 SQL 2005 was not necessary (vendor install
> of Vault cost $1500), but it's now too late.

The capability has always been there - once again, just because you
didn't know it doesn't mean information was withheld from you.

> That's my problem with this, and why I say it's like the horse before
> the cart. How can we keep a competitive edge and stay ahead of the
> curve, when we're being fed expensive solutions up front, then a
> couple of months later, the good solution is presented for free?

And Vault is an expensive solution why? It comes with the program,
installs with SQL Express, and can be put on any old box - I don't think
free rates as that expensive.

> I'm not going to rule out Vault just yet, but I am very frustrated
> with the whole situation.

I understand your frustrations, but you seem to be under-educated on
what Vault can do for you. Get with someone who REALLY knows the
program and can make it work for you, and you'll be happy. And you
never mentioned how many users you have...

--
Jason Hickey

Civil 3D 2008
Dell Precision M70
2 GIG RAM, 256 MB nVidia Quadro FX Go1400
Intel Centrino 2 gHz Processor

www.civil3d.com

[russc]

Do people on these threads not realize how condescending they can sound, or is it intentional? ...anyhow, I do appreciate you taking the time to respond...

How can I look for information I don't know about? I contacted my vendor, KETIV Technologies, had them do the Vault install just last week. I was the one who informed them about the patch to allow 2007 to work with vault 2008. So I have contacted people who should know what they're doing, but at least in my area, Vault is still very new to the Civil sector.

As for security, I want to be able to keep CAD drafters out of design data drawings... which I can do if the file is checked into the Vault. However if I put the working copies on a share, it's anybody's game. Perhaps you are fortunate enough to have a full staff of brilliant designers AND drafters, I unfortunately have to do a little more baby-sitting.

I also don't understand why you say it would be more difficult to train on using data shortcuts, or require more user intervention. The process in Vault is almost the exact same process presented in wizard form. You still have to choose which objects you want to publish, choose which objects you want to reference, and there is a manual process for attaching new files to the project.

I realize that the Vault is free, otherwise I would be asking for a refund. Right now we are at only 8 users, however when the decision was made to upgrade the whole system, we were right at 10 users, and hoping that we would grow within the near future, the Autodesk Data Management Server did not seem like the best option. I'm fairly confident that I was not alone in my ignorance of the free SQL Express, as it was only first mentioned almost exactly a year ago on James Wedding's blog, then a month later on Angel's. As I said, I stumbled upon it too late.

In any case, the cost of implementation is a huge factor. Time is money, training is money, storage capacity is money, network bandwidth is money.

Vault may be great, but really all I want is a way to handle project data, not a whole new way to store and manage my files. I already have a system for that, and I'm happy with it.

Vault WAS the only way, now it's not, because it took 2 years to "fix" data shortcuts... what's next years best solution? I'm tired of being strung along.

[Anonymous]

I still have not run into anyone who would choose vault over data shortcuts.
Plenty of people got in the groove when it seemed the only choice in 2007, pre sp3.
What I have seen is the larger firms already have some kind of doc management, so one more is not welcome.
The smaller firms do not want a doc manager to manage.

Data shortcuts are a bit clunky as-is, but keep this trick in mind:
You can set up data reference objects in a blank file, then block them (or copy and paste) wherever needed.
The data shortcut dialog does not allow multiple picking, so any time you need a bunch of items at once, you can re-use
the drefs in that "blank" file. I'd be hosed if not for that trick.

I'd bet money that a new system will be introduced sometime. I get the feeling things have not settled yet.

russcurrington <>
|>First, I want to apologize for beginning this discussion with a rant, but I have a lot to say. I feel like I have been falsely led to believe that Vault was the only workable solution for effectively sharing object data. I feel as if Autodesk’s “commitment” to its subscription customers to provide a new release every year, has created what I can only call a “horse before the cart” situation.
|>
|>As a decision maker, I rely heavily on the white-papers, web casts, discussion groups, and other recourses made available through Autodesk. The bottom line: I feel that Vault has been grossly oversold. After spending over $4000 for SQL server and professional setup and configuration of our Vault server, I find that Vault does not work at all as I was led to believe that it would.
|>
|>Sure the copy in the vault is secure, and has version tracking, but in order to use Vault, you check out a “working copy” which has no restrictions on it whatsoever! That leaves me the option of having people work with local copies that don’t get backed up, and must be checked in before anyone else can see the changes; or work with shared copies that anyone could browse to through explorer, make changes to, send out, etc. with none of the safeguards that Vault promoted.
|>
|>If I ever want to be able to use Sheet Set Manager, I have to go with the second option, essentially throwing out any security that Vault could offer, but still having the burden of administering vault, training, and a whole new layer of bugs and potential file corruption.
|>
|>We have already invested thousands in training, and I'm having a hard enough time getting my users to transition to Civil 3D (correctly use C3D drawing templates, understand styles, understand dynamic labeling, etc) without having to re-teach them how to open a drawing.
|>
|>So, extremely frustrated, I decide to lay my options out on the table, and create side by side comparison based on our standard workflow. In doing so, I thought it would be a good idea to revisit data shortcuts, and compare using the data shortcuts, to using Vault, and everything that would be required to implement.
|>
|>Now, I had tried using data shortcuts in 2006, seemed to work great… until you close and reopen the reference drawing. My experience with this was that every time you open a drawing containing referenced objects, you had to re-establish the data references manually. Based on discussions I’ve had with several prominent instructors and other users, I believed that this was normal behavior, and was the primary reason for working within the project environment. Still, faced with the terror if transitioning all of our projects to vault, and completely reworking or file system structure and workflow, data shortcuts were starting to sound a little more appealing.
|>
|>This brings us to yesterday. I begin by opening up a drawing which already contains a C3D surface. Then I create the data shortcut and export the shortcut to XML. Then, I open another drawing which contains some alignments and profiles based on the same surface, only for this exercise, I delete the surface which existed in the drawing, and replace it with a data reference of the surface in the other file. As expected, I have to recreate my EG profiles, but that’s easy enough. So, now I’m ready to save and close.
|>
|>Now past experience tells me that when I reopen this drawing, I will not see the surface, and if I go to my panorama pane, all the data references will be broken. Low and behold, I open the alignments and profiles drawing, and to my astonishment, THERE’S MY SURFACE!!! Not quite ready to count my chickens, I proceed to create data shortcuts from the alignments and profiles in this drawing. Everything goes smoothly, I reference these into a new drawing to create a mock sheet drawing, create a profile view, and voila! I close out, reopen (it’s all still there!!!). I even go into the original drawing, lengthen one of the vertical curves and save, and in my second drawing I get a wonderful little balloon notification that once of my data references need updating!
|>
|>Long story short, everything regarding data shortcuts seems to be working just as I always thought it should. Every reason we made the decision to use Vault just went away.
|>
|>So guys, am I crazy? What’s going on here? Was the previous disfunctionality of data shortcuts just a glaring software bug that went unfixed for 2 versions and 5 service packs? Was Vault just a distraction?
|>
|>Please, I want to hear other people’s experiences with this. Is anyone happy with Vault? Is it really necessary? And was my earth shattering experience with the shortcuts yesterday just a fluke?
|>
|>I would greatly appreciate any feedback that anyone has to offer. Thank you.
James Maeding
Civil Engineer and Programmer
jmaeding - at - hunsaker - dotcom

[russc]

Thank you =D

I guess the tides have turned, and (as usual) I'm still back paddling. ::sigh::

I just find it ironic that I finally get vault up and running, just to find out that I really did have antoher option.

Thanks for the input!

[codyg]

You can set up data reference objects in a blank file, then block them (or copy and paste) wherever needed.
The data shortcut dialog does not allow multiple picking, so any time you need a bunch of items at once, you can re-use
the drefs in that "blank" file. I'd be hosed if not for that trick.>

James - are you saying that you copy all of your reference objects into another file to use (i.e. a referenced C3D surface or alignment object)? And then copy them into other drawings as necessary?

[Anonymous]

I submitted a feature request over a year ago asking to make it so that
objects within XREF's could be used and labelled.

For example, a surface within an xref could be used to cut profiles or
sections. Civil 3D 2008 has this ability, albeit rudementary and limited to
corridors and surfaces within cross sections only, but the technonogy is
there. Maybe my wish will come true.

Here's crossing my fingers.

Matt

[Anonymous]

>>Do people on these threads not realize how condescending they can sound, or is it intentional?<<

Jason Hickey may be many things but that is not one of them.
Frustration can cause errors in judgement so you get a pass but that's not a term I would ever apply to him.

>>However if I put the working copies on a share, it's anybody's game.<<

It's just a regular windows share subject to whatever security policies you decide to employ.

I>>I want to be able to keep CAD drafters <<
They are soon to be obsolete.
Not much monkey see monkey do drafting work left in an efficient business model.

>>In any case, the cost of implementation is a huge factor. Time is money, training is money, storage capacity is money, network bandwidth is money.<<

YUP,YUP,YUP,YUP,YUP. So is staying in business competing against firms using a more efficient business model.

Your firm really needs to address the entire process and personal needed to use this product efficiently.
You have a good reseller who can help.

>>Vault may be great, but really all I want is a way to handle project data, not a whole new way to store and manage my files. I already have a system for that, and I'm happy with it.<<

So are we. We don't place our main focus on Vault for Project Organization. That's what the working folders are for. Vault is sort of like a backup system that can be accessed from the floor.

A year ago I was you Russ.
Now I'm much mellower. 😉

[Anonymous]

No, he's saying he creates data references only once, in a blank drawing,
then copy and paste the data reference to any drawing he wants.
Interesting technique!

--
Larry Bettes
ADT, C3D (& LDT/CD)
(06, 07, & 08 with all SPs installed)
P4 - Dual Core 3.0 GHz, 3.00 GB RAM
nVidia GeForce 6800 GS AGP - 256 MB
Windows XP Pro, SP 2

[Civil3DReminders_com]

Here is a quick way to create a button that will create all of the data shortcuts in a source file. The only one I haven't found is the pipe networks.

Make sure there isn't any data shortcutted objects in the file because it will make them for them also and I don't think the program likes that.

http://civil-3d.blogspot.com/2007/04/creating-data-shortcuts-with-one-button.html

[dana.probert]

it's not usually intentional. i guess sometimes we assume that everyone reads this group every day, etc. though so sometimes it just gets to us and unintentionally comes out in our postings. something we all need to work on.

[Anonymous]

russcurrington wrote:
> Do people on these threads not realize how condescending they can
> sound, or is it intentional? ...anyhow, I do appreciate you taking
> the time to respond...

You come in here with a misinformed rant and have the nerve to accuse
someone trying to help you of being condescending???

If KETIV is your vendor, then you're in really good hands - Angel
Espinoza is one of the more knowledgeable people out there (in the US)
when it comes to Civil 3D.

Why would you lock CAD drafters out of design drawings? Do you just
allow them to create sheets and xref information into them? That's
interesting - if they're that bad, how are they going to figure out data
shortcuts? And I never said that it was more difficult to train users
on data shortcuts than Vault, but you were complaining about "teaching
them how to open drawings" - I'd say from a user standpoint, Vault would
be quite a bit easier to learn, but that's just me. Back-end server
setup? Yeah, Vault is a bit more difficult.

And part of your argument doesn't really add up - Vault came out with
Civil 3D 2007, a little over a year ago. You said that the information
regarding SQL Express came out a year ago. I don't think people were
that ignorant, since the news came out at the same time we started using
it with Civil 3D. And if you knew it then, why would you have
purchased this server and then complain
because the information wasn't out there for you to see? That part
confuses me a bit.

I'm really done with this conversation - you seem bent on thinking that
Autodesk is out to get you and you've wasted money on Vault - but if you
already have it installed and have the capability of using it, there's
absolutely no reason TO use data shortcuts.



--
Jason Hickey

Civil 3D 2008
Dell Precision M70
2 GIG RAM, 256 MB nVidia Quadro FX Go1400
Intel Centrino 2 gHz Processor

www.civil3d.com

[dana.probert]

data shortcuts can be hideously difficult to manage and easy to overwrite. though i have no opinion on vault vs data shortcuts really (they each have a place) there are times that vault just makes heaps more sense and is actually easier to manage. we've had people choose vault over data shortcuts.