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Slow Civil 3d, cause by slow server, but still frustrated

63 REPLIES 63
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Message 1 of 64
kickhead70
5906 Views, 63 Replies

Slow Civil 3d, cause by slow server, but still frustrated

Our server recently got tied up running backups, so all performance suffered for a morning, but it revealed some of Civil 3D's behavior that may otherwise go unnoticed. Here's relevant details:

 

  • Win 7 Pro 64, HP EliteBook 8760w with add-on 27" monitor, 16GB RAM
  • Civil 3D 2012, all latest patches/service packs.
  • All support files pathed locally.
  • drawing being worked on is the source for surface data for data shortcuts.
  • all automatic rebuilds of any kind turned off.

Many, many common functions of even vanilla autocad were unreasonably slow.  Why should there be a 20 second delay after clicking a hatch to grip edit?  Why should there be a delay after editing a feature line (no auto rebuild)?  I understand the lag with rebuilding the surface, but not the simple things. It was my understanding that AutoCAD had a system where all drawing data is been copied locally to work on, and saves go back over the network. It seems like Civil3D / AutoCAD generates a ton of unneccesary network traffic for many things which should be able to happen strictly locally.  Am I missing out on a setting somewhere?

Thanks!

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63 REPLIES 63
Message 21 of 64

Interesting that the issues of search paths, etc. when working with LAN & WAN deployments should come up.  One of the very first things I did to try to increase my system performance was to move all company standards locally and eliminate all network paths from anything that AutoCAD is looking for. There are many times when I'll check out a license, grab some files and work from my couch in the evenings, so needed full operability.  When at home, with no cable attached and the laptops WiFi turned off, it's noticeably faster, even though I have no non-local search paths in my configuration.

Message 22 of 64

Here is another example of mine that I captured using Process Monitor and using Civil 3D 2012

  1. Launch Civil 3D 2012
  2. Open a file off our network, I'm local so opening the file is opening over the LAN
  3. Save the file right after I open it.
  4. Exit Autocad

So I did these steps as fast as I could and just doing those steps you can see in the excel file that there is over 10,000 times that Autocad looked for files and it couldn't find them and was looking for files multiple places.

What a waste of time and network resources Autocad is wasting.

Message 23 of 64

We have used network paths for years and it wasn't until Autocad 2012 and/or switching over to Windows 7 that we really started noticing a slow down with Autocad and the blue spinning wheel of death, that's what are users call the Windows 7 spinning wheel when Autocad is doing something.

I'm starting to think that the combination of Windows 7 and 2012/2013 that there is something making things slower than they used to be.

We shouldn't have to copy all of our Autocad standards to every single workstation, if that's the case then just eliminate all custom paths and don't even allow us to do that. OK don't do that Autodesk. Just rewrite acad.exe so it doesn't need to look for multiple files over multiple locations in locations it shouldn't even be looking in.

Message 24 of 64

If you can eliminate the need to look for things it can't find, it won't cause the excess network traffic 🙂 Just saying.
John Hammer, LA/CADD Manager
Message 25 of 64

Exactly, so now can you tell that to Autodesk and convience them to make a change so it's not looking for *.dll, *.arx, etc... all over the place.

 

Example, looking for file nvspcap64.dll and it can't find it so it looked for it in all of these places and this is coded into acad.exe, I'm not telling Autocad to look for this file.

C:\Program   Files\Autodesk\AutoCAD Civil 3D 2012\nvspcap64.dll
C:\Windows\System32\nvspcap64.dll
C:\Windows\system\nvspcap64.dll
C:\Windows\nvspcap64.dll
C:\Users\Brent.Morris\Documents\nvspcap64.dll
C:\Program Files\Autodesk\AutoCAD Civil   3D 2012\en-US\nvspcap64.dll
C:\Program Files (x86)\Intel\iCLS   Client\nvspcap64.dll
C:\Program Files\Intel\iCLS   Client\nvspcap64.dll
C:\Windows\System32\nvspcap64.dll
C:\Windows\nvspcap64.dll
C:\Windows\System32\wbem\nvspcap64.dll
C:\Windows\System32\WindowsPowerShell\v1.0\nvspcap64.dll
C:\Program Files\WIDCOMM\Bluetooth   Software\nvspcap64.dll
C:\Program Files\WIDCOMM\Bluetooth   Software\syswow64\nvspcap64.dll
C:\Program Files (x86)\Common Files\Roxio   Shared\DLLShared\nvspcap64.dll
C:\Program Files (x86)\Common Files\Roxio   Shared\OEM\12.0\DLLShared\nvspcap64.dll
C:\Program Files   (x86)\Roxio\OEM\AudioCore\nvspcap64.dll
C:\Program Files\Common Files\Autodesk   Shared\nvspcap64.dll
C:\Program Files (x86)\Hewlett-Packard\HP   ProtectTools Security Manager\Bin\nvspcap64.dll
C:\Program Files\Intel\Intel(R)   Management Engine Components\DAL\nvspcap64.dll
C:\Program Files\Intel\Intel(R)   Management Engine Components\IPT\nvspcap64.dll
C:\Program Files (x86)\Intel\Intel(R)   Management Engine Components\DAL\nvspcap64.dll
C:\Program Files (x86)\Intel\Intel(R)   Management Engine Components\IPT\nvspcap64.dll
C:\Users\Brent.Morris\AppData\Roaming\Autodesk\C3D   2012\enu\Support\nvspcap64.dll
C:\Program Files\Autodesk\AutoCAD Civil   3D 2012\Support\nvspcap64.dll
C:\Program Files\Autodesk\AutoCAD Civil   3D 2012\Fonts\nvspcap64.dll
C:\Program Files\Autodesk\AutoCAD Civil   3D 2012\Help\nvspcap64.dll
C:\Program Files\Autodesk\AutoCAD Civil   3D 2012\Express\nvspcap64.dll
C:\Program Files\Autodesk\AutoCAD Civil   3D 2012\Support\Color\nvspcap64.dll
C:\Program Files\Autodesk\AutoCAD Civil   3D 2012\Civil\nvspcap64.dll
C:\Program Files\Autodesk\AutoCAD Civil   3D 2012\bin\FDO\nvspcap64.dll
C:\ProgramData\Autodesk\C3D   2012\enu\Data\Symbols\Mvblocks\nvspcap64.dll
C:\Program Files\Autodesk\AutoCAD Civil   3D 2012\nvspcap64.dll
C:\Program Files\Autodesk\AutoCAD Civil   3D 2012\Drv\nvspcap64.dll
C:\Program Files\Autodesk\AutoCAD Civil   3D 2012\nvapi64.dll
C:\Program Files\Autodesk\AutoCAD Civil   3D 2012\nvspcap64.dll
C:\Windows\System32\nvspcap64.dll
C:\Windows\system\nvspcap64.dll
C:\Windows\nvspcap64.dll
C:\Users\Brent.Morris\Documents\nvspcap64.dll
C:\Program Files\Autodesk\AutoCAD Civil   3D 2012\en-US\nvspcap64.dll
C:\Program Files (x86)\Intel\iCLS   Client\nvspcap64.dll
C:\Program Files\Intel\iCLS   Client\nvspcap64.dll
C:\Windows\System32\nvspcap64.dll
C:\Windows\nvspcap64.dll
C:\Windows\System32\wbem\nvspcap64.dll
C:\Windows\System32\WindowsPowerShell\v1.0\nvspcap64.dll
C:\Program Files\WIDCOMM\Bluetooth   Software\nvspcap64.dll
C:\Program Files\WIDCOMM\Bluetooth   Software\syswow64\nvspcap64.dll
C:\Program Files (x86)\Common Files\Roxio   Shared\DLLShared\nvspcap64.dll
C:\Program Files (x86)\Common Files\Roxio   Shared\OEM\12.0\DLLShared\nvspcap64.dll
C:\Program Files   (x86)\Roxio\OEM\AudioCore\nvspcap64.dll
C:\Program Files\Common Files\Autodesk   Shared\nvspcap64.dll
C:\Program Files (x86)\Hewlett-Packard\HP   ProtectTools Security Manager\Bin\nvspcap64.dll
C:\Program Files\Intel\Intel(R)   Management Engine Components\DAL\nvspcap64.dll
C:\Program Files\Intel\Intel(R)   Management Engine Components\IPT\nvspcap64.dll
C:\Program Files (x86)\Intel\Intel(R)   Management Engine Components\DAL\nvspcap64.dll
C:\Program Files (x86)\Intel\Intel(R)   Management Engine Components\IPT\nvspcap64.dll
C:\Users\Brent.Morris\AppData\Roaming\Autodesk\C3D   2012\enu\Support\nvspcap64.dll
C:\Program Files\Autodesk\AutoCAD Civil   3D 2012\Support\nvspcap64.dll
C:\Program Files\Autodesk\AutoCAD Civil   3D 2012\Fonts\nvspcap64.dll
C:\Program Files\Autodesk\AutoCAD Civil   3D 2012\Help\nvspcap64.dll
C:\Program Files\Autodesk\AutoCAD Civil   3D 2012\Express\nvspcap64.dll
C:\Program Files\Autodesk\AutoCAD Civil   3D 2012\Support\Color\nvspcap64.dll
C:\Program Files\Autodesk\AutoCAD Civil   3D 2012\Civil\nvspcap64.dll
C:\Program Files\Autodesk\AutoCAD Civil   3D 2012\bin\FDO\nvspcap64.dll
C:\ProgramData\Autodesk\C3D   2012\enu\Data\Symbols\Mvblocks\nvspcap64.dll
C:\Program Files\Autodesk\AutoCAD Civil   3D 2012\nvspcap64.dll
C:\Program Files\Autodesk\AutoCAD Civil   3D 2012\Drv\nvspcap64.dll
Message 26 of 64

This has never happened to me before. Try a google search for nvspcap64.dll and it found nothing. ????
Message 27 of 64
Hammer.john.j
in reply to: kickhead70

Hey Brent,

Do you have any other Autodesk applications installed, like previous versions of the program?  If you can, I'd make a new user on your workstation, install civil 3D on it as the default setup, and see if you have the same problems.  Just make sure you use the network license install if you are using a network license, but don't install anything custom at all, nothing.

 

Also, have this new user, have no other applications on it.... interested to see what happens.

John Hammer, LA/CADD Manager
Message 28 of 64

Yes, I have this installed on my laptop.

Civil 3D 2012 & 2013

ADT 2012 & 2013

MEP 2013

Revit 2013

 

I have used the default setup and I still captured multiple files looking into multiple places.

I have tested on multiple different workstations using either Civil 3D or ADT and it didn't matter if it was 2012 or 2013 I had the same results.

I had my reseller support person who just use plain Autocad 2013 do the same capture and he got the same results.

This is also why I asked other users on this discussion to do the same test to make sure it wasn't just myself.

 

So my question to you and to anybody else is have you used the Process Monitor to capture according to my previous post, if so do you also notice that acad.exe was looking for a lot of files it couldn't find and it was looking in a lot of folders?

Message 29 of 64

I just finished a test with 2 different types of computers and OS and was surprised by the results.

Both computers using Civil 3D 2012 and both came from the same network deployment that installed Civil 3D 2012, using the stardard icon so it's using that standard profile and all local paths. The test was just capturing Civil 3D 2012 starting up and that's it.

 

1. Micron Desktop, purchased in 2007,XP 64bit SP2, Pentium D 3.4ghz, 4 GB ram, and Civil 3D 2012

It took Civil 3D 2012 25 seconds to open and process monitor captured 471 lines of files acad.exe couldn't find.

 

2. HP Elitebook 8570w, purchased in 2013, 7 Pro 64bit, i7 2.7 ghz, 16 gb ram, and Civil 3D 2012

It took Civil 3D 2012 21 seconds to open and process monitor captured 3900 lines of files acad.exe couldn't find.

 

I have included a zip file containg the excel files to show the difference in number of files and the different types of files it was looking for.

Message 30 of 64

I did the same thing and found the same results... but i'm not convinced that 'name not found' and 'create file' are operands that necessarily mean it can't find something.  then again, i'm not an i.t. professional so i have no idea what the process monitor is filtering out.

 

for what it's worth, mine logged 23,260 NAME NOT FOUND entries :-0

 

http://forum.sysinternals.com/name-not-found-a-very-frequent-result_topic19467.html

 

John Hammer, LA/CADD Manager
Message 31 of 64

when i launch civil 3d as autocad, i get 3,700 NAMES NOT FOUND, and as predicted without civil 3d cad launches fastER.... still not impressed.

 

we even have solid state hard drives, and i noticed a HUGE improvement with the solid state hard drive over the spinner drives....

 

interesting at a minimum, i put in a request with support.

John Hammer, LA/CADD Manager
Message 32 of 64

Thanks for running the test.

I'm finding out that this problem is not just me and that other people are seeing the same thing in Process Monitor.

 

I found this video about Procees Monitor explaining a little bit about Name Not Found and it's 53 min into the video.

http://channel9.msdn.com/Events/TechEd/NorthAmerica/2010/WCL314

 

I'm finding that other users have been complaining about the performace back in 2011 using Win 7 http://forums.autodesk.com/t5/AutoCAD-2010-2011-2012-DWG/AutoCAD-2011-Running-Extremely-Slow/td-p/28...

 

http://forums.autodesk.com/t5/AutoCAD-2010-2011-2012-DWG/AutoCAD-2012-and-Windows-7/td-p/3003892

 

Autodesk has also been putting out solutions to improve performance with Windows 7

http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/ps/dl/item?siteID=123112&id=18818398&linkID=9240617

http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/ps/dl/item?siteID=123112&id=14898223&linkID=9240617

 

So in my opinion there is something within acad.exe and Windows 7 that is making things slower than they use to be and all I'm trying to do is prove whether there is actually an problem with the program, my computer, server, or the network.  I have done almost everything that I can find to improve Autocad performance on my computer, server, and networking and my research lead me to using this Process Monitor and in my opinion I think Autodesk should take a serious look at this because I think they could improve the performance of Autocad if it wasn't time looking for files in multiple locations for every command you do in Autocad.

To me it doesn't make sense that when I do a move command in Autocad it's looking for a *.cuix menu file.

So you can imagine a full days work in Autocad that every single command you do it looks for file in my opinion it shouldn't be even looking for and looking the files in multiple locations wasting time.

 

So if we can get enough users to convience Autodesk to at least take a look at this problem and see if they can improve the code to improve the performance for everybody.

I know it's asking a lot but I have to try.

 

Thanks

Brent Morris

 

Message 33 of 64

Hear, hear!

 

I have experience intermitant slowness with Win7 & C3D 2012 (and 2010). I can't reproduce it consistently. Its not always the first time I use a command, though that does happen. Sometimes I select multiple objects (half a dozen points, not thousands), right click and get a blue wheel for 30 seconds. Over the course of a workday it adds up and mostly results in frustration. Its like if you were a carpenter and every five to ten minutes a little gnome came and grabbed your hammer out of your hand just as you were swinging at a nail, taunted you with it for 30 seconds and then gave it back.

 

::shakes fist at invisible CAD gnomes::

 

I'm trying to eliminate/rule out any other bottlenecks on my machine. I'm on 2012 SP2; I haven't tried SP3 yet.


Brent, have you tried the latest service packs?

Ian McClain
Message 34 of 64

That was good about the gnome, it gave me a good laugh for the day.

 

I just download and installed SP3 for Civil 3D 2012 and I haven't noticed any speed improvements yet but early to tell.

I'm going to install on some other users and we will see if it helps them.

 

This still didn't change anything as far as what the Process Monitor captures of files it can't find.

 

I'm curious about your setup.

  1. Are you working on a network and if so on a LAN or WAN
  2. Is your server a Windows server 2008 R2
  3. Do you have custom search paths for fonts, pc3, ctb, etc... on the network.
  4. Is the file you were working on using xrefs and/or datashortcuts
Message 35 of 64

C3D 2012

 

I always knew that C3D was spending a lot of time on the network, just didn't know how much!

 

This year, we got our wan upgraded from 9 mb to 15 mb, and new switches at the main office. The server at the main office was also upgraded. I'm not sure what else was done, but C3D now works mostly like it should. So, even though C3D is network happy, it can work well if you have a good network and server.

 

Another thing: A year ago, I determined that by copying the company fonts and ctb files to my local drive sped up the mtext editor and plot dialog immensly. Getting rid of those network paths is just another piece of the puzzle towards good C3D performance.

Message 36 of 64

I have talked to more users and really tried to figure out what when users complain about Civil 3D being slow so that I can determine if it's our network, server, workstation, or Civil 3D and from what I can tell users complain about Civil 3D when they are working on a file that has 2 or more xrefs, using datashortcuts, and/or when they use Sheet Set Manager. When users are just working on a single file they say it works great but as soon as they work on any big projects with multiple people and they start xrefing multiple files is when they really notice the difference.

So in my opinion our network, server, and workstations are working just fine, the problem is that Civil 3D just can't handle files with multiple xrefs especially with survey xrefs with a lot of points for effieciently.

 

I have made almost every possible tweaks to our network, server, workstations, and having all of our cadd standards on the local drive of the workstations and users still complain only when they work on these big projects.

So for now I have told them that we will just have to figure out how to either eliminate a lot of xrefs and/or split files into smaller files if they are working on a big project.

 

I'm still going to press Autodesk to still look at the problem with how acad.exe looks for files in multilple places and wastes cpu and network resources when it doesn't need to.

 

Thanks everybody for your comments and good luck

Brent Morris

Message 37 of 64


brent.morris wrote:

... and from what I can tell users complain about Civil 3D when they are working on a file that has 2 or more xrefs, ...


Brent, do you have XLOADCTL set to 3? This will allow demand loading of Xref's and will make local copies of network-based Xref's. This should cut down network file access. I would be interested to know if this reduces the number of file access notations Process Monitor is logging

 

Also, do you have INDEXCTL set to 3 inside each Xref drawing file? This will create layer and spatial indices atop each xref drawing, allowing AutoCAD to only load into memory those objects that are on thawed Xref layers and within the Xclip boundary.

 

By the way, thanks for all the detailed information you have posted in this thread. This will be of help to many people.

 

Tim

 

Edited by
Discussion_Admin

 



Tim Corey
MicroCAD Training and Consulting, Inc.
Redding, CA
Autodesk Gold Reseller

New knowledge is the most valuable commodity on earth. -- Kurt Vonnegut
Message 38 of 64

I have XLOADCTL set to 2, I think you meant to say 2 because there is no 3, so I think we are on the same page there.

 

I forgot about INDEXCTL, I have ours set to 0, I will try it at 3 and see if that helps.

 

Thanks for you help.

Have a good weekend.

 

Brent

Message 39 of 64

Yes, I mean 2 on Xloadctl.

 

I will be interested if indexing helps. This is a thread I will definitely be following. You and another poster are right, this is a subject of great interest to many companies. I hope it doesn't come down to having to keep shared files locally. What a pain in the rear that can be. Small companies, not a big deal. Big companies, big deal.

 

Keep up the good work and thanks again for your efforts to enlighten us all.

 

Tim

 

 

 

 

 

 



Tim Corey
MicroCAD Training and Consulting, Inc.
Redding, CA
Autodesk Gold Reseller

New knowledge is the most valuable commodity on earth. -- Kurt Vonnegut
Message 40 of 64
Hammer.john.j
in reply to: tcorey

xload is like pay me now or pay me later.... one way or the other you gotta pay to play lol.

 

we've tried both here and neither one is ideal.

John Hammer, LA/CADD Manager

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