Signs a company should NOT be using Civil 3D?

[brent.moses]

As the subject says are there any definitive tells a company should not use the software?

[MtnMax700]

if you are strictly a survey company.

[dgorsman]

Trying to use it to design buildings.  Or mechanical devices.  Or shoes.  Or without proper training and subject matter knowledge.

Or are you fishing for something else?

[Jay_B]

What is the translated version of your question?

Based on participation in another thread re: "Pipe Barrel Clearance" your obviously not new to, or unfamiliar with Civil 3d.

Looks like you may already have your own answer to this question.

[brent.moses]

No not new but very frustrated...
surveys we only model the surface no networks or parcels.

Design is worse alignments are used to get surface profiles but the grids aren't used and are matched to half sheet grids in PS, so if alignments or profiles are shifted hours can be lost eradicating profile views. Pipes are drawn manually very few users know how to even use yt? Hem. View frames and sheets are considered to "random to use". Yet per my contract I am supposed to increase efficiency and develop better methods to use civ3d though the two problemswith this stem from im not in a position to make recommendations for improved use and honestly I think they need to find a different software for what they want to do. Please note I love Autodesk products personally, but I don't think civ3d is the right fit for this group

[_Hathaway]

Well that's not true, many survey only firms I know use Civil3d. Most have too have it if they want to supply survey data to the bigger engineering firms.

I have very little issues with running civil3d as a surveyor. In fact, it does everything I need it do quickly and efficiently.

[tcorey]

If you

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@brent.moses wrote:
No not new but very frustrated...
surveys we only model the surface no networks or parcels.

Design is worse alignments are used to get surface profiles but the grids aren't used and are matched to half sheet grids in PS, so if alignments or profiles are shifted hours can be lost eradicating profile views. Pipes are drawn manually very few users know how to even use yt? Hem. View frames and sheets are considered to "random to use". Yet per my contract I am supposed to increase efficiency and develop better methods to use civ3d though the two problemswith this stem from im not in a position to make recommendations for improved use and honestly I think they need to find a different software for what they want to do. Please note I love Autodesk products personally, but I don't think civ3d is the right fit for this group

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If you're unable to help the client, there are many regular contributors to this forum who can. It's not the software, it's the users' understanding. If they haven't been trained, they're going to say things like, "View frames are random to use." Whatever that means...

Perhaps posting to the Autodesk Classifieds group will net you an experienced consultant who can help you out.

Tim

[KirkNoonan]

If their work involves surfaces, profiles and pipes, I agree with Tim, sounds like the only thing lacking is someone that knows what they are doing to teach everyone. These are pretty much the strongest features of C3D.

Sounds like you have some serious job description issues if you've been tasked to 'increase efficiency and develop better methods to use civ3d', yet you're not able to make recommendations.

[cbaildon001]

I'm normally very supportive of Civil3D and I like using it. I am also responsible for the company survey template but I often have to admit that the survey side of things let Civil3D down

.

- the survey database is slow. Slow editing observations, updating networks.

- working with large sets of Cogo points in the drawing is also slow. Applying description keys to points is slow.

- Traverse adjustment. It is very picky about data required for this. ie. If I do one of my backsights by angles only (no distance) it does funny things.

- It does not do 7 parameter/helmert adjustments.

- It does not have a dynamic link with the database (I would like to options to be able to choose whether or not deleting a point in the drawing also removes it from the database. To delete a point from drawing and database, you need to delete (1) the observation (2) the point in the database and (3) the point in the drawing. That is a pain.)

- Grid to ground issues. Transformations. Sinc wrote some good stuff on this.

- Two point dynamic blocks inserted to scale to survey points.

That's off the top of my head, I'm sure there are more. When I say these things, it is primarily in comparison to 12D, the developers of which value the surveyors and are very responsive to their needs.

In the company I work for Civil3D is used for most design and a lot of the survey work, but there is real push for 12D for surveying from many staff. For cadastral survey in New Zealand 12D is the only software package that reliably and easily intergrates with the national land database (Landonline) and is the main reason why most NZ survey firms use 12D.

Regards

[Neilw_05]

The answer to your question depends on what you need it to do.

C3D has it's strengths and weaknesses in different areas of functionality. Here are a few of my opinions:

Strengths

1. In my experience it is currently the most dynamic civil design tool available in regards to it's models and annotation.

2. It's style paradign is very powerful for making global changes to the presentation.

3. Data shortcuts make it possible to utilize the models for multiple purposes

4. Dynamic alignments, profiles and cross sections make for efficient evaluation and presentation of different design scenarios and rapid revisions to the design

5. Being an Autocad based application means there is a large potential user base 

Weaknesses

1. Grading tools and methods are cumbersome and/or lacking in dynamic capabilities. I feel this is one of it's greatest weaknesses.

2. The software can be slow when processing changes to the models, displayiing imagery and has problems with moderately large datasets.

3. While the dynamic nature of the product is very powerful it also requires highly skilled users to modify it when it doesn't do what is needed out of the box

4. It has interoperability issues between versions, although that has been improved with the last 3 versions.

Of course there is much that can be said on this but at least it is a start. As to whether there are any deal breakers, that is a highly subjective question.

[jeff_rivers]

It sounds like your company still considers CAD software to be only a drafting tool, and not a design tool. That model went away with the last couple of releases of Land Desktop.

This is a discussion that has been going on for a generation now: How is the workload split between the engineers/designers and the cad techs, and how will that change when C3D is addes to the picture?

You may need to make a presentation to management outlining the workflow now vs. what the workflow really should be to better and more efficiently utilize the power of C3D. And the path to get there may force your engineers and designers to have to change their habits, which they are understandably reluctant to do.

Your job will be to sell management that time invested in properly training the staff will be recouped in faster production time, less wheelspin when designs are revised and fewer errors.

Your example of profiles lined up with plan views, if I understand you, is a very good one in that way. Another example is the error-checking in the software: Why spend the time manually calculating pipe inverts (and possibly making simple math errors) or manually checking alignments & profiles for correct K values when the program will do it for you?

Change the paradigm: C3D is a design tool, not a drafting tool.

[cbaildon001]

Here are threads on two of the survey issues. Any progress on these?

Helmert transformation
http://forums.autodesk.com/t5/AutoCAD-Civil-3D-Wishes/Upgrade-quot-Translate-Survey-Database-quot-to...

Two point survey blocks
http://forums.autodesk.com/t5/AutoCAD-Civil-3D-General/Key-description-2-point-scale/m-p/2774962
http://forums.autodesk.com/t5/AutoCAD-Civil-3D-Wishes/Two-point-symbols/m-p/2021460

Regards