Scaling points without changing elevations?

[kuenzlk]

Does anyone know of a way to scale points, and or objects in a 2 dimensional manner only? I've got a bunch of survey points imported from a csv file, and they are at a grid scale. I need to scale the data by a factor of 1.000125 in this case to get ground distances between the points for the client. I do not want the elevations to change. In LDDT this was not an issue as I always had the points inserted at zero elevation, but they maintained the elevation data as part of the point. It seams that in Civil 3D my points automatically appear at true elevation, so when I scale a group of points, the elevations changes as well as the elevation of any lines connected to the points. Is there a way to work 2 dimensionally with 3D data?

[Anonymous]

I am pretty sure the survey database will accomplish this with the Translate
Survey Database command.

Without that, select your points & make them a block with the insertion
point coincident with the rotation base point. Select the new block & go to
the Props dialog. Insert X & Y scales, explode the block.

Look into your Point Feature Settings you can get them to insert at zero if
you want.

--
John Mayo, PE

Core i7 920 6GB DDR3
Radeon 4870HD 1 GB (I do not recommend this card for C3D)
Vista64

[kuenzlk]

I tried the Translate Survey Database command, and it tells me I can't do this without a Survey database being open. Haven't used the survey database before, so I'm not sure what this is all about. Haven't been able to figure out how to open a survey database. Forgive me for my ignorance on may parts of civil 3d, we've just started to use it in hopes of replacing LDDT.
I tried making the points a block, and was able to scale the block as desired, but was then when I tried to explode the block, I get the message that objects were unable to be exploded.
I will try to figure out how to insert the points at zero elevation. Hopefully that will work.

[Anonymous]

When you create the block you are prompted with the Block Definition dialog
box. Look for and check the box titled, "Allow Exploding".

The tutorials included in Help take about 10-15 mins each. They can walk you
through the Survey Database concepts & processes. I found them very helpful.

--
John Mayo, PE

Core i7 920 6GB DDR3
Radeon 4870HD 1 GB (I do not recommend this card for C3D)
Vista64

[ryanquigley2390]

Isolate the points you want to scale. Select all. Type "scale" on the command line using basepoint 0,0 then enter your scale factor.

If you also want to scale the z values of the points then you would type 0,0,0 as the basepoint. It would then apply the entered scale factor to the Z value.

If you are also doing a Northing-Easting shift, remember that Northing is the Y and Easting is the X.

[Anonymous]

I had my doubts that this would work, so I tried it...it didn't work.

Did you actually try this with Civil 3D points?

--

Matt Kolberg
GCS - A Division of Cansel


wrote in message news:6280500@discussion.autodesk.com...
Isolate the points you want to scale. Select all. Type "scale" on the
command line using basepoint 0,0 then enter your scale factor.

If you also want to scale the z values of the points then you would type
0,0,0 as the basepoint. It would then apply the entered scale factor to the
Z value.

If you are also doing a Northing-Easting shift, remember that Northing is
the Y and Easting is the X.

[ryanquigley2390]

No, you are right Matt. It's not working. I tried it before (C3D 2009) and I could have sworn it worked...only modified the Northing and Easting, but after you said that I tried it again and it's not working. I must have been mistaken.

I wonder if there is a command variable for this?

[ryanquigley2390]

When I use the 0,0 in 2004 it scales the Northing and Easting only. The same goes for 0,0,0.

In 2009 it scales all 3 when selecting either origin. (0,0 and 0,0,0)

[ryanquigley2390]

Sorry, I didn't understand what the original poster was saying about being inserted at 0 elevation. I see now what they are saying now about the Civil 3D points being inserted at the true elevation.

[rl_jackson]

Are you trying to get a ground / grid distance for a line (i.e. survey or traverse)?

[kuenzlk]

We usually complete all our surveys at Grid. Sometimes we need to convert things to ground for a client. Sometimes we get data at ground from external sources, and we need to adjust it to fit our grid drawing. Simply depends on what we are doing, sometimes we go back and forth.
In LDDT we could scale back and forth with no problems, and the way it handled points, we were only scaling the location and not the elevation. Ideally, what I'm looking for is a way to scale 2 dimensionally with Civ3D like I was able to do in LDDT.

[Anonymous]

Ok, I have found a way to do this.
http://www.civil3d.com/2009/10/scale-your-points-keep-the-elevations/


--

Matt Kolberg
GCS - A Division of Cansel


wrote in message news:6279899@discussion.autodesk.com...
Does anyone know of a way to scale points, and or objects in a 2
dimensional manner only? I've got a bunch of survey points imported from a
csv file, and they are at a grid scale. I need to scale the data by a
factor of 1.000125 in this case to get ground distances between the points
for the client. I do not want the elevations to change. In LDDT this was not
an issue as I always had the points inserted at zero elevation, but they
maintained the elevation data as part of the point. It seams that in Civil
3D my points automatically appear at true elevation, so when I scale a group
of points, the elevations changes as well as the elevation of any lines
connected to the points. Is there a way to work 2 dimensionally with 3D
data?

[kuenzlk]

Thank-you.
It's a pain in the rear to have to go through that process, but at least it works. I guess it's something to put in the wish list for future versions.

[Anonymous]

Very nice. Knew there's a reason we pay you top dollar for all those
posts. 😛

JW

[Anonymous]

Top dollar eh?

--

Matt Kolberg
GCS - A Division of Cansel


; "P.E." wrote in message
news:6281421@discussion.autodesk.com...
Very nice. Knew there's a reason we pay you top dollar for all those
posts. 😛

JW

[Civil3DReminders_com]

I'm going to sell my version of the solution for the same top dollar money: http://blog.civil3dreminders.com/2009/10/scale-points-retain-elevation.html

[Anonymous]

Very nice indeed.

John


"Matt Kolberg" wrote in message
news:6281516@discussion.autodesk.com...
> Top dollar eh?
>
> --
>
> Matt Kolberg
> GCS - A Division of Cansel
>
>
> ; "P.E." wrote in message
> news:6281421@discussion.autodesk.com...
> Very nice. Knew there's a reason we pay you top dollar for all those
> posts. 😛
>
> JW

[Anonymous]

You get a, ''Very nice indeed" as well.

John


"Civil3DReminders.com" wrote in message
news:6281624@discussion.autodesk.com...
> I'm going to sell my version of the solution for the same top dollar
> money:
> http://blog.civil3dreminders.com/2009/10/scale-points-retain-elevation.html

[Anonymous]

kuenzlk wrote:

> Is there a way to work 2 dimensionally with 3D data?

Yet another option (dialog below) ...

Terry
--
Never start any job without the right tools!
AutoCAD Add-on Tools at http://www.dotsoft.com

[ryanquigley2390]

The original poster wrote "It seams that in Civil 3D my points automatically appear at true elevation".

You can insert the points not at their true elevation the same way you could in LDDT 2004. It won't help with your scaling issue because it still scales the elevation value using the Autocad Scale command.

In the Point display settings on one of the tabs there is a choice for how you want the point entities inserted. True elevation or fixed elevation which you can then set it to insert at Zero or whatever you want. You'll need to set this for each point display style.

When you set this to zero (or some fixed value for all point styles) you then get a horizontal distance when snapping to them using the Autocad "distance" command on the command line.

On a similar subject, I'm confused over why the scale command is able to scale the elevation of the points.

In Land Desktop 2004 you had to update the point database to reflect the coordinate values for the points after you scaled them. The point entities were moved in the drawing and you had to update the coordinate database to reflect the new position of the points in the drawing. This doesn't affect the elevations in 2004 so I assumed Autocad wasn't able to access the Land Desktop information. At least this is how it works for me. We insert our points at zero rather than "true" elevation.

Now moving to 2009 using the Autocad scale command not only do you move the point entities in the drawing but it scales the elevations.
I understand that in 2009 the point information is in the drawing, but I assumed that when you would use the Autocad scale command it would move the point entities in an x,y,z(z=entity location not true elevation) manner rather than a Northing, Easting, Elevation manner? I don't understand how the autocad scale command is able to access the elevation data and why it changes that rather than the z value of the entity itself. Does 2010 do this as well?