AutoCAD Civil 3D General Discussion

AutoCAD Civil 3D General Discussion

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*Cannon, Steve
Message 11 of 14 (83 Views)

Re:

10-10-2003 05:42 AM in reply to: *Antoljak, Strahimir
> Kriging would probably work best ...
> Choice of smoothing parameters could have a
> significant impact on the results...
> Natural neighbor should give good results...
> You could also manually augment the surface
> with approximate points/edge editing

In CD3, it sounds like more of the civil/survey profession is going to be
exposed to better interactive surface editing and program algorithms that
use geostatistic methodologies to estimate unknown surface values from known
surface values. I foresee polarized discussions over this issue in the
future. Over the past years in the LDD NGs , several 'purists' (such as
Laurie, Karl, and Bud) have been aghast that I actually advocated editing
surfaces and utilizing terrain points that were not 'known field points' in
my surfaces. Their position was that a surveyor was a collector of data and
that modeled surfaces must contain only data that was collected and
classified in the field as a random point or edge. They did not seem to
comprehend why a surveyor would ever need to manually edit a surface.
Understand, they were exposed only to the limited editing and triangulation
algorithms within LDD. Having experience with more sophisticated surface
editing tools, I put forth the stance that in these changing times, the
surveyors real job is the creation of the most accurate terrain surface
model possible that is most suitable to the client's needs - as long as they
can legally show a path back to field collected data and defend surface
creation and editing procedures. Once these guys have time with a more
sophisticated terrain modeler and interactive surface editing tools, it will
be interesting to see if they change their tune.

sc
*Comerford, Laurie
Message 12 of 14 (83 Views)

Re: RockSurf

10-10-2003 07:17 AM in reply to: *Antoljak, Strahimir
Hi,

Probably a majority of Civil projects have only minor needs for sub-surface
data and hence Civil Based software does not necessarily address these
issues to the extent you require.

You would be more likely to find these sorts of issues addressed in Mining
software. Historically these types of programs are aimed at companies in
the 'Main-frame" computer budget range and hence not accessible to and often
not known to Civil firms which operate on far smaller budgets.

A company I visited in Quebec a couple of years ago has AutoCAD based mining
software in which these issues are very well addressed.

You may care to look at

http://www.promine.com


--


Laurie Comerford
CADApps
www.cadapps.com.au

"Strahimir Antoljak" wrote in message
news:FE2978F1CF422943E2C1CB9F55D5994F@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
>
> We are multidiscipline company
> Civil/Geotech/Environmental/etc
> and here is the fairly frequent
> requirement we have with
> regard to Rock Surface/Contours
> (but I can envision very similar
> application/benefit for creating
> pollutions surface/contours or
> anything else).
>
> We get existing surface data
> from surveyors. This is always
> detailed.
>
> Then our Geotech/Environmental
> people go to the site and collect
> boring/environmental logs. The
> number of logs may very between
> say 30 (more often) to 150 or more.
>
> In certain cases the geotech people
> look to encounter rock and they
> collect rock depths/elevations.
> (The environmental people collect
> PID values, etc).
>
> So we have very detailed existing
> surface and only 30+ points to represent
> rock depth. Often, the geotech people
> want to see estimated/rough rock surface
> and contours. Now, 30+ points is too
> few points, I'd say, even for approximate
> surface.
>
> Is there a way, or can it be built in the
> future release of Civil3D, to automatically
> (not manually) generate multiple interpolated
> points based on 30+ known points and
> accounting for existing surface - see attached
> figure.
>
> Thanks,
>
> --
> Strah @ Langan
>
>


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
*Elsberg, Natan
Message 13 of 14 (83 Views)

Re: RockSurf

10-11-2003 05:28 PM in reply to: *Antoljak, Strahimir
Hi Strahimir,

I can't tell you when it will be ready for Civil 3D - but we have a
fantastic application written exactly to your needs as described in our
SmartPack - Subsurface modeler, there is even a routine to draw borehole
diagrams based on mulitple surface strata.

It addresses the exact needs of subsurface interpolation based on borehole
data.

It currently is supported on LDT 3, and 2004.

You can download a free fully functioning 15 day trial version to evaluate
if it is suited to your needs.


You should certainly have a look.

http://www.pd5d.com/english/html/LDTapps.html
www.pd5d.com

Yours,
Natan
Technical Manager
PD5D.

"Strahimir Antoljak" wrote in message
news:FE2978F1CF422943E2C1CB9F55D5994F@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
>
> We are multidiscipline company
> Civil/Geotech/Environmental/etc
> and here is the fairly frequent
> requirement we have with
> regard to Rock Surface/Contours
> (but I can envision very similar
> application/benefit for creating
> pollutions surface/contours or
> anything else).
>
> We get existing surface data
> from surveyors. This is always
> detailed.
>
> Then our Geotech/Environmental
> people go to the site and collect
> boring/environmental logs. The
> number of logs may very between
> say 30 (more often) to 150 or more.
>
> In certain cases the geotech people
> look to encounter rock and they
> collect rock depths/elevations.
> (The environmental people collect
> PID values, etc).
>
> So we have very detailed existing
> surface and only 30+ points to represent
> rock depth. Often, the geotech people
> want to see estimated/rough rock surface
> and contours. Now, 30+ points is too
> few points, I'd say, even for approximate
> surface.
>
> Is there a way, or can it be built in the
> future release of Civil3D, to automatically
> (not manually) generate multiple interpolated
> points based on 30+ known points and
> accounting for existing surface - see attached
> figure.
>
> Thanks,
>
> --
> Strah @ Langan
>
>


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
*Antoljak, Strahimir
Message 14 of 14 (83 Views)

Re:

11-04-2003 12:37 AM in reply to: *Antoljak, Strahimir
hi,

>This problem should be
> similar to offsetting a surface

hmmm.... not quite.... the offsetting
is related to constant distance between
two lines or surfaces in this case.
However, a field investigation can
show that rock is found at depth
7ft at point A, and at depth 12ft at
point B. So, 'offsetting' would not be
much of a help here.
thanks

--
Strah @ Langan


"Allen S. Jessup" wrote in message
news:79DCEEB860B9E7D9AE66DBE64EFAD28D@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> No reason why not other than it wasn't included in the menus. The
underlying
> software is certainly capable of it. Steve C.'s question about VBA & Lisp
> addresses this. If these are available in C3D then it should be possible
to
> write a program that does thin inside the product. This problem should be
> similar to offsetting a surface .
>
> Allen
>
> "Strahimir Antoljak" wrote in message
> news:smileyvery-happy:400E84F38426434A04F4B749ECFE24E@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> > > Funny enough, I've also just gotten
> > an off newsgroup email alerting me
> > that capability I was asking
> > for, exists in another Site/Civil software.
> > So my thought is why not Civil3D as
> > well.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > --
> > Strah @ Langan
> >
> >
> >
> > "Allen S. Jessup" wrote in message
> > news:0BD3F6BF7F71B7F12BD8D048FED6F108@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> > > You point out one of the disadvantages of using a product that is
> targeted
> > > at a wide user base. You don't find many tools that are written
> > specifically
> > > for one industry. While you will find software written with the
> > geotechnical
> > > field specifically in mind will do what you are looking for. The
> software
> > > written for the Civil in general will not. What you might hope for is
> that
> > > if there is enough market for it some one might write an add on for
> this.
> > >
> > > I don't know anything about the geotechnical area. Does anyone use
> Ground
> > > Penetrating Radar to get a better idea of the rock surface? I've seen
> GPR
> > > used in Archeology.
> > >
> > > Allen
> > >
> > > "Strahimir Antoljak" wrote in message
> > > news:BB4AD9D7968B2770411AC12B30170B41@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> > >
> > > > To conclude, this surface approximation is done anyway
> > > > (manually) either because project manager wants to include
> > > > that in their report or a client asks for that. To emphasize again,
> > > > everybody knows that what is among points is (an educated)
> > > > guess, and there is a big note accompanying such drawing
> > > > saying "THIS IS ONLY ESTIMATED ROCK SURFACE..."
> > > > or something of that kind.
> > > >
> > > > What I am asking for is to have ability to do it quickly
> > > > and easily, maybe several versions of such 'educated guesses'
> > > > if possible and then let us users, based upon our accumulated
> > > > geological engineering experience decide how
> > > > accurate that is, and how to present it to a client.
> > > > There are such software on the market anyhow,
> > > > but I would like to see that option in Civil3D and use
> > > > one software rather than buy another too, and in my opinion,
> > > > with underlying Civil3D engine, it may not be even that difficult.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for you input,
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Strah @ Langan
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
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