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River Analysis Extension for AutoCAD Civil 3D / AutoCAD Map 3D

151 REPLIES 151
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Message 1 of 152
scott.sheppard
13198 Views, 151 Replies

River Analysis Extension for AutoCAD Civil 3D / AutoCAD Map 3D

There is a new technology preview on Autodesk Labs.

 

http://labs.autodesk.com/utilities/civil3d_river/

 

Project River Analysis Extension for AutoCAD® Civil 3D® 2012 software and AutoCAD® Map 3D® 2012 is a sophisticated river modeling software package supports HEC-RAS within the AutoCAD Civil 3D 2012 and AutoCAD Map 3D 2012 environment. This technology preview of River Analysis makes it easier than ever before to compute water surface profiles for modeling rivers, bridges, culverts, spillways, levees, floodplain and floodway delineations, stream diversions, channel improvements, and split flows.



Scott Sheppard
Program Manager
Autodesk Labs
Autodesk, Inc.
151 REPLIES 151
Message 81 of 152
LyleHardin
in reply to: pmascaro

I'm aware that C3D objects are not backward compatible, but she can't even copy and paste a simple line or circle from 2013 to 2010. That's not really the issue though, of course. Interesting about the license management. I know we used to be able to open multiple AutoCADs on one computer while using one license. But now, if she opens 2010 (to run RiverCAD), then 2012 and 2013, she's using 3 licenses according to FlexLM.  I just assumed since they were three different releases, FlexLM sees them as three different licenses.

Message 82 of 152
pmascaro
in reply to: LyleHardin

You are correct that if you open all 3 it will pull from the same license and use 3 licenses from your pool. So you would have to close one to open the other unless you had extra licenses.... but you could upgrade the 2010 seat to 2013 and still use 2010. Although, once you go to 2014, 2010 will be obsolete and will not be included in the 2014 lic file... (You could copy the code from the old license file into the new one, but I’m not sure if that is against the rules…)

 

Message 83 of 152
LyleHardin
in reply to: pmascaro

That makes sense then.  We are all upgraded on subscription. She is only using 2010 because she likes using the original BOSS RiverCAD. She likes the RiverCAD better than the RiverAnalysis besides the fact that River Analysis is set to expire soon. I was just hoping RiverAnalysis would be part of Civil 3D next year or released as a permanent extension. It appears that is an unknown (or unspeakable) at this point.

Message 84 of 152
O.Maille
in reply to: LyleHardin

What is the advice from Autodesk on the topic of not having a method for hec ras import/export in 2013?

 

I'm still running 2009 for old VBA scripts.

I'm probably going to have to buy a decent pipeline analysis package as SSA is not fit for purpose.

I'll have to install 2012/2011/2010 and try to use the old export methods for Hec-Ras.

I'll have to install 2012/2011/2010 to get google earth images & surface data in and out of the program.

 

Civil 3d delivers less now than it did in 2010 with minimal stability improvements.

 

Message 85 of 152
pmascaro
in reply to: LyleHardin

    • You should have your old VBA scripts written in .net, unfortunately VBA is no longer supported for good reason and .net will be around for the long haul…. You can install VBA into 32bit civil 3D and Map 3D 2012. I keep a common computer around running 32bit ® 2012 w/ VBA installed on it that we can all remote into. I run one of my old VBA scripts on that as I currently do not have budget to rewrite it this time. If you have the raw code, It’s a small patch to get it to run in ®2012 w/ VBA on a 32bit Machine. (That will solve your 2009 issues) I can recommend a programmer for this (if you have the raw code)
    • No real comment on SSA, meets our needs at this time…
    • I also have a copy of 2012 running w/ the RA Extension for working with HEC-RAS. I’m sure Autodesk has dropped a pretty penny on River Analysis and is continuing to spend a small fortune improving it. Considering the strange things that happened to my Civil 3D 2012 after installing it, I’m Ok w/ them fixing working out the bugs before installing it into Civil 3D as a permanent feature (hoping that is the long term goal, right Autodesk??)
    • Hang onto your 2012 for Google Earth too if you rely on aerial imagery in your work plans… and make sure you are running Google Earth Pro (Licensed…) The main alternative that Autodesk is working on is a served version of Bing Maps through Project Base jump. What that means for us…  Bing can be used for internal purposes only but not for client driven work or other commercial business oriented work without a license directly from Microsoft. Works derived from Bing products are also not allowed without a license. Bing imagery, regardless of how you obtain the imagery is tightly controlled and would require a substantial additional investment through Microsoft…
Message 86 of 152
scott.sheppard
in reply to: LyleHardin

So what happens after December 31 when the current technology preview stops working?

 

Here is what I have heard so far from the team:

 

  1. We are planning on formally delivering this technology in the future. This includes providing a solution for AutoCAD Civil 3D 2013. At this point we don’t have anything we can share on timing, but we will make more information available as things get more solid.
  2. How we would eventually deliver something post tech preview (if the technology progresses to a production stage) is still being finalized, but we wouldn't be surprised if this is functionality that is unique to the IDS Suite. The suite vision is that “analysis” functionality is included in the Ultimate Suites (in this case, Infrastructure Design Suite – Ultimate).


Scott Sheppard
Program Manager
Autodesk Labs
Autodesk, Inc.
Message 87 of 152
pmascaro
in reply to: LyleHardin

Does anyone in this thread need the following applications?

  • Autodesk® Revit® Structure
  • AutoCAD® Utility Design
  • Autodesk® Navisworks® Manage

I think the majority of us will need this application to run with Civil 3D. Ultimate is a huge price increase over premium... It seems to me that if we are on subscription and have Premium we should get this included with our IDSP and not be forced into IDSU for something that is Civil / Hydro / Geotechnical based.....

I would encourage your colleagues to consider adding this to IDSP or providing it as a download for IDSP Subscribers.

 

I understand Autodesk hast to turn a profit, but, subscribers are your front line in Beta testing.... Keeping us happy and throwing us a bone would be a nice gesture...

 

Message 88 of 152
Yami72
in reply to: scott.sheppard

Oh, no! Why analysis will be only in Ultimate Suite? I just had Premium and now the only thing to get Ultimate would be the analysis tool? Please, do not put in only to the Ultimate Suite! I don't anything else from the Ultimate Suite. And please, extend the time to use the extension as long as something will replace it! There are many jobs going!
Message 89 of 152
mjung
in reply to: LyleHardin

Having this in the "Ultimate" suite would probably put this usefull tool out of the reach of most users who would need it. This is a tool that extends the usability of Civil 3D, not Revit Utilities or Navisworks.


Civil 3D 2024 / Windows 11 Pro (64bit)
Intel Core I7 @3.30GHz / 32gig RAM / NVIDIA Quadro K2200
Message 90 of 152
ccantrell
in reply to: mjung

Can we split the Revit Structural off into a separate license for one of our actual structural designers to use?  Otherwise upgrading to Ultimate just for River Analysis won't be worthwhile for us.  I say this a bit tongue-in-cheek, but I just don't see the beneift in upgrading to ultimate for most civil firms.  Come December 31, I will most likely recommend that we purchase the extensions for ArcGIS to allow us to use GeoRAS, as we will most likely get more benefit from them.

Message 91 of 152
pekka.leiviska
in reply to: LyleHardin

Hello,

I' ve been using Rivercad professional and this year I've been very glad to have River Analysis working in Civil3D 2012. I am very disapointed in Autodesk, if it will be available in the future only in Ultimate Suite. Its very expensive and have nothing else that i would need. I hope it will be available in Civil 3D like Storm and Sanitary analysis.

 

Anyway, it is very important that it will be still available after 12/31/2012 until it will be Released in some product like hopefully Civil 3D 2013!

 

Pekka Leiviska

Finland

Autocad User from the begin on 90'

Message 92 of 152
gperego
in reply to: pekka.leiviska

I agree with many comments.

.
It 's very important that the extension is released with Civil 3D.
Then RAE should be inserted in the Infrastructure Design Suite Premium.

 

Here in Italy we have a good feedback for its use, thanks also to Blogs and to public activities on its use, regarding flooding problems, that every autumn afflict many parts of our country.

 

RAE is also an optimal alternative for people using products of competition.

 

So, We hope strogly that it will be released as an extension of Civil 3D and IDS Premium.

 

Many thanks

Regards

Giovanni

Message 93 of 152
tjsuchoski
in reply to: LyleHardin

Unfortunately, if Autodesk does position River Analysis as an add-on to the Ultimate Suite, then they will loose my firm's business.  There is already talk of finding something other than AutoCAD/Civil 3D to use for the drafting/design side of things.  As a small firm, we do not need all the bells and whistles that are being included in the software that is packaged in the suites.  Being required to purchase the Ultimate Suite just to add this functionality is not going to go over well.  We were hoping that this would be added as a subscription add-on like the Storm and Sanitary module.  Guess I better start looking at the alternatives.


Civil 3d 2011 or 2012
Quad Core Intel
Windows 7 x64
8GB RAM
Message 94 of 152

Thank you for your candor. I appreciate that. The feedback seems to be split. Some users say that they rely on this enhanced functionality so heavily that they are disappointed that there will be an interval between the end of the current tech preview and whatever the next step is. There are others who love it but are willing to accomplish the same thing manually to avoid the extra cost (and benefits) of the ultimate suite. I am sure the product managers will look at how many will pay versus won't to determine where to position this advanced technology.  



Scott Sheppard
Program Manager
Autodesk Labs
Autodesk, Inc.
Message 95 of 152
O.Maille
in reply to: scott.sheppard

Scott,

 

To be frank there is no split.

This is another f**k up by autodesk; clearly unable to provide continuity of service to companies paying good money for poorly update/maintained/supported products.

Many users like myself are engineers that have been using this product for a number of years thus are in a position to assist each other to provide workarounds to counter act the shortcommings of autodesk.

 

The minimum functionality required is very basic; getting data from C3D to Hec-ras.

 

I appreciate your point that Autodesk has wasted a lot of time since the original few lines of VBA script in 2009 to produce a sexier version of the product and thus need to squezz more money from subsribers to justify the coding.

 

I have no objection per se to the premis that people who want the fancy river analysis package should pay for the ultimate suite. However there should be at least a basic export to hec-ras (vba / .net / whatever) on all suites given the time and effort your "customers" have put into beta testing the attempts over the last 3-4 years.

If the "benifits" developed since the original basic scripts are good enough people will upgrade.

 

Given the recent development with the "suites" it is clear the product managers are forcing customers back to the days when all major functionality was provided by packages external the main program, like having novapoint / autotrack with autocad. The main difference begin autodesk now owns the external programs.

Is this due to Autodesks inability to get its older core products (built around autocad) to utilise modern CPU/GPU technology or simply inability to develop coheriently within one package?

Message 96 of 152
scott.sheppard
in reply to: O.Maille

Actually IMHO our move to suites was based on:

 

1. Adding more an more functionality to products was making them larger and larger. They are plenty big already.

 

2. Some of the functionality, e.g... rendering, is desired by multiple industries, so instead of adding to all of the hero apps, we add it to one app and then include that app in the suite.

 

3. As projects get more and more complicated, customers needed more and more functionality. Packaging it in suites is a win-win in that we get more revenue, but customers get more functionality at a lower cost than if they purchased the applications separately.

 

4. As our number of applications grew and grew, our resources available to market them was challenged because we have limits on marketing dollars, number of product managers, tradeshows, ad placements,etc. By putting our wood behind one suite arrow, we can reach out to a variety of customers and offer a set of applications that, when combined, provide powerful solutions to design challenges.

 

So there are a variety of reasons for suites. The above is just my personal observation, not an official company position, so maybe there re other facets that I am not aware of.



Scott Sheppard
Program Manager
Autodesk Labs
Autodesk, Inc.
Message 97 of 152

I have Dish Network. I like the TV show _Breaking Bad_. _Breaking Bad_ is on AMC. I didn't have that channel. To get AMC I had to purchase a 200plus package of channels from Dish Network. Though I didn't need the other 199 channels, I understand their rationale. If they let subscribers buy individual channels, they would have way too many SKUs as well as very complicated entitlement programming on their end. Now as I scan what's on TV using the guide, I find many shows that I can watch on those other channels I didn't think I needed until I got them.



Scott Sheppard
Program Manager
Autodesk Labs
Autodesk, Inc.
Message 98 of 152

Hello all...

 

What has been completely ignored in this whole discussion is the situation of previous licensees of the BOSS software that Autodesk acquired to create the River Analysis package.  What happens to us?  We invested in BOSS with the expectation that since we paid for a release, that updates, etc were included (or at a minimum, would be granted an upgrade at minimal cost).  This is the same thing that happened when they acquired Hydraflow packages.  Those of us that had them were literally 'forced' to get Civil 3D for its continued use.  While I agree that AutoDesk may have added some improved functionality with regard to interaction with Civil3D, software assets purchased by AutoDesk from 3rd party develpers should have a pathway to upgrade or for contunued use by those of us that invested in them prior to the acquisition.

 

As far as the suite inclusion is concerned, I feel that since HEC-RAS and Floodplain/Floodway modeling is kind of a niche market and the benefits River Analysis would proivide to the average market share AutoDesk is seeking would not bear itself out in Suite package sales.  Do the math.  Most of the other components of the Suites are used by the bulk of the design community, where this tool would be used by probably less than 10%.  I think making River Analysis an add-on through subscription would better serve the AutoDesk user community and thus give the feeling that they are getting something beneficial for the yearly subscription cost.  Considering the current economy and the need to pursuade firm management to contunue spending funds for software, providing value for our increasingly scarce dollars should be at the top of any software vendor's list.

Message 99 of 152

Let me assure you that this information has not been forgotten. When companies that develop packages (like the river analysis extension) are not profitable enough to sustain a small company, they agree to be acquired by Autodesk. It is then up to us to determine how to make the technology profitable for a large company. It is a balance between keeping the technology viable and continuing to serve the customers of the acquired company. I am sure the Product Managers will consider the dedicated following that has helped get the technology to where it is today.



Scott Sheppard
Program Manager
Autodesk Labs
Autodesk, Inc.
Message 100 of 152
pmascaro
in reply to: pekka.leiviska

Like finding extra channels, I think I would pick up a full version of Analysis as I think I and/or my Hydro group would find benefits within the full package. But as of now I'm not even using it to go back and forth w/ HEC-RAS.

 

I import the HEC-RAS sections and traceing feature lines over them so I can model rivers and do cut/fill analysis for river capping, relocation, proposed meandering, etc.

 

It would be nice if Civil could just model the HEC-RAS sections into Surface Models, but at a min. We should keep some limited capabilities w/ in civil. As of now I can import the HEC-RAS alignment from w/in Civil and the section lines from w/ in River Analysis. And really that is all I"m doing w/ it at this point.

 

Like I said, with a stable / permanent version, I would probably get training in it w/ our Hydro group and by a full version, but you should at a min. Give us these and more transferring capabilities from within Civil and I'm still thinking giving your subscribers a free download at least for a few years of the initial release would be wise...

 

You know as well as I do that this will still be beta even after it's released and we will still be ironing out the bugs w/ you. To be honest. Your 2013 Civil 3D was beta as far as I'm concerned up until SP1 and that was just released... And even then, there is much work ahead.... don't put the cart before the horse and sell everyone somthing that they are going to find major bugs in....

 

My 2 Cents....

 

Thanks

Paul

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