Returning to 2006

[Anonymous]

Is there a way to move 2007 label styles, description key sets, surface styles back to 2006 ? We made the big mistake of migrating to 2007 and have been dogged by crashes, parcel labels not displaying properly, command window disappearing, Edit Scale List not working, we cannot afford the time anymore to pick up the pieces all the time. SP1 seems to have introduced new bugs on top of everything.

[Anonymous]

No, there's no documented way to move those items back. You _might_ get
lucky if you simply save a dwg back with the styles defined in it, but I
wouldn't hold my breath.

Just curious, did you have any help in your move to 2007, or did you go it
alone?

--
James Wedding, P.E.
Engineered Efficiency, Inc.
Civil 3D 2007
XP Tablet, SP2, 2GHz, 2G
www.eng-eff.com
www.civil3d.com

[Anonymous]

We paid out support agents in Austrlia $3200 for assitance. They are now helping us move back.

[Anonymous]

I have had some re-installation issues with moving back. Things that I now
know the solution for. It might be more of a Land Desktop issue, but it
wouldn't hurt to check:

http://civil3drocks.blogspot.com/2006/06/keeping-it-clean-get-your-computer.html

--
Dana Breig Probert
http://civil3drocks.blogspot.com/
CADapult Ltd
Empowering Design With Innovative Solutions
www.cadapult.net
----------------------------------------------
wrote in message news:5219493@discussion.autodesk.com...
We paid out support agents in Austrlia $3200 for assitance. They are now
helping us move back.

[Anonymous]

Addendum to my last reply:-

The $3200 was paid to assist with implementation of Civil3D 2007. KarelCAD Australia have been as supportive as possible under the conditions in trying to rectify problems in the 2007 implementation. Their assistance in moving back to 2006 is being done free of charge. Apologies to KarelCAD if my remarks have thrown a bad light on them, this was entirely unintended.

AutoCAD in this instance has had the gall of having a go at their support agents in response to my posts. This is a sadly misdirected approach. I sincerly suggest AutoCAD snap out of their ivory tower and get in touch with the people on the ground who are trying to do an honest day's work. This whole episode brings back memories of AutoCAD revision 13 which was an absolute nightmare on its first release. Focus on the root CAUSE of the PROBLEM: Your product. No support company, no matter how good they are, can suport a decrepid product indefinitly. We are extremely annoyed at having been delivered a product that from our perspective is riddled with bugs, made even worse by application of a service pack. After about 14 days of unproductive playing around, and in the interests of deliverng a service to our clients we have retreated to 2006. Neither Civil3D 2007 or its SP1 are properly QA tested. If this product had any other name behind it other that AutoCAD WE WOULD HAVE THROWN IT OUT OF THE WINDOW. We simply don't have the resources to do Autodesk's debugging for them, including writing up a report everytime something goes wrong.

Plans that have left our office the last few days have been produced despite AutoCAD, not with AutoCAD. We will have another look at Civil3D 2007 in six months time. In the mean time we will carry on paying our subscriptions to AutoCAD while at the same time carrying the costs of our recent exercise. We can only hope that AutoCAD will set aside all its spin and hype, get real and produce something that works reasonably. Nothings is perfect, software is like a tree, the more branches are put on the more leaves fall off. But this time its more like the whole tree is falling over.

IN STARK CONTRAST TO AUTOCAD, WE ARE LIABLE FOR DAMAGES CAUSED BY DELIVERY OF A BAD SERVICE OR PRODUCT.

My anger is directed at AutoCAD, nobody else. I trust I have made this clear.

[Anonymous]

I observe that the AutoCAD powers are now silent...

[Anonymous]

Just what do you expect them to say?

They're not going to deal with a singular customer in rant mode in a public
forum, and they're not going to offer blanket refunds, so they have nothing
to win by speaking.

--
James Wedding, P.E.
Engineered Efficiency, Inc.
Civil 3D 2007
XP Tablet, SP2, 2GHz, 2G
www.eng-eff.com
www.civil3d.com

[jharris]

Its not a single customer, Its all of us.

Autodesk is using the public as their beta testers. The programers at Autodesk don't have enough time to write code and sufficiently beta test the product before its scheduled 1 year release. As a result we the consumers are the beta testers.

< BEGIN SARCASM >
I for one really dont mind paying $995 to Beta test their software in a production environment. My clients are usually very understanding when their projects don't get done on time because I had to uninstall and reinstall or downgrade my CAD software.
< END SARCASM >

-Jeff Harris

[Anonymous]

Still not a peep from AutoCAD. Hush now, they're working at the bugfixes. Let's all be very quite and let them concentrate...

[Anonymous]

I hate to get all snarky, but you always have a choice. If you despite
Autodesk so much, there are alternatives.

--
Dana Breig Probert
http://civil3drocks.blogspot.com/
CADapult Ltd
Empowering Design With Innovative Solutions
www.cadapult.net
----------------------------------------------
wrote in message news:5221141@discussion.autodesk.com...
Still not a peep from AutoCAD. Hush now, they're working at the bugfixes.
Let's all be very quite and let them concentrate...

[Anonymous]

I meant despise. 🙂

--
Dana Breig Probert
http://civil3drocks.blogspot.com/
CADapult Ltd
Empowering Design With Innovative Solutions
www.cadapult.net
----------------------------------------------
"Dana Breig Probert" wrote in message
news:5221194@discussion.autodesk.com...
I hate to get all snarky, but you always have a choice. If you despite
Autodesk so much, there are alternatives.

[jharris]

Alternatives?

You mean I can cut my losses, after paying for 2 usless versions of C3D, Thats only $1990 per seat. No big deal.

How about this, Autodesk gets their crap together and fixes the software I've already purchased from them. (What a concept, software that works)

Also switching is not cost effective as you have to buy new licenses of Microstation and retrain your staff along with a serious loss of productivity until they are up to speed. Humm doesnt sound like they have us by the balls or anything.

Autodesk doesnt give a crap about its customers, all they care about is raping the public. They have proven this time and time again. I'll change my tune when they slow down the release cycle and ditch the subscription money maker, and above all else release a worthy version of Civil 3D/Autocad...

-Jeff Harris

[Anonymous]

Dana

Let me hit the Sarcasm Button first

You mean if someone doesn't like a product like C3d they can just up and switch to something else....I mean all the hassle of having to learn a new product just like they are having to do with all the changes in 2007....That is completely unthought of...All the down time switching to a new software would cost millions..althought the downtime from 2007 is around the same......I mean come on....We want answers NOW!!!!! We want change NOW...
SP2 SP2 SP2 SP2 SP2 SP2 SP2 SP2....ATLEAST SP1A
Ok Sarcasm button off.......

[Anonymous]

There are other product out there sauch as Microsurvey which is about 90% the same as Autodesk autoCad...(commands, functions, ect) ..Has many of the features two years ago the C3d is just now getting to and I have found....If you are in the surveying business it is a software geared more that direction....but does just as well for site development

Then there is also Carlson

Microstation is not the only option Message was edited by: chrisl1976

[jharris]

The change from Autocad based products to Microstation products would take much longer than a learning Civil3D!!

That aside, I want Change also. Change like:

Loose the yearly release cycle. (So that the developers have time to add useful features and fix the proplems in current releases)

Change the marketing model. (So that I dont have to pay for software I dont want and dont get penalized for doing so)

Its not just Civil 3D, its Autodesk in general. They are worse than Microsoft.

< BEGIN OFF TOPIC >
While I'm ranting, Why isnt there a Linux/Unix version of Autocad?
Hell, if we dont have to spend money on a Micro$oft Operating System, then we have a few hunderd dollars more to spend on Autocad right?
< END OFF TOPIC >

-Jeff Harris

[Anonymous]

Nobody is forcing you at gunpoint to load the latest and greatest on your
machine. Pretend AD *IS* doing a two-year release cycle - You'd just be one
year behind the rest. You also were not forced to get the latest and
greatest either - YOU had choices in this matter.

I do my fair share of complaining, but not to the extreme of slandering AD.
How about their legal department getting in touch with you and giving you
the choice of paying a six-digit lawsuit for slander vs. a 4-digit cost for
software.

No where in any of your rants, complaints, and whining did I hear anything
about your getting any training for C3D. I might suggest that - trying to
learn this software on its own is like trying to dig a tunnel through the
alps with only a tablespoon.

Consider this my final word on this subject.

Rick

wrote in message news:5221753@discussion.autodesk.com...
The change from Autocad based products to Microstation products would take
much longer than a learning Civil3D!!

That aside, I want Change also. Change like:

Loose the yearly release cycle. (So that the developers have time to add
useful features and fix the proplems in current releases)

Change the marketing model. (So that I dont have to pay for software I dont
want and dont get penalized for doing so)

Its not just Civil 3D, its Autodesk in general. They are worse than
Microsoft.

< BEGIN OFF TOPIC >
While I'm ranting, Why isnt there a Linux/Unix version of Autocad?
Hell, if we dont have to spend money on a Micro$oft Operating System, then
we have a few hunderd dollars more to spend on Autocad right?
< END OFF TOPIC >

-Jeff Harris

[jharris]

I'm scared now. A lawsuit for speaking the truth. They'd loose their asses off for violating my my right of free speech. Nothing I've said is slander. Loose the scare tactics.

Threating their customers for being unhappy with their products, thats a good marketing model. Next thing you know there will be armed Autodesk agents knocking on my front door encouraging me to stay on subscription.

If anything you are the one that runs the risk of being sued, speaking on behalf of Autodesk and threatening me. I'm sure Autodesk really likes it when other people make threats for them.
I'll have my leagal department do some research on this one. See how it pans out. I sure that they can find a way to make Autodesk somewhat liable for your posting. And if they settle then they can pursue you for their losses..

My god man get a clue.

I'd be glad to pay every other year! But the subscription forced me to pay each and every release. If I do skip a release, I have to pay for the skipped release + the release I want + a penalty for skipping.

It may not be a gun to my head, but it sure is a BIG hand in my wallet!

Ok, now that I've got that off my chest, lets get back on topic.
What was it again? Oh ya, Autodesk gougine its customers and releasing flawed software.


-Jeff Harris

[jharris]

Oh and the digging through the Alps with a spoon thing?

You may have a hard time learning the software but I dont.

There are plenty of resources available to help you learn Civil 3D. These forums are a great start, the Manual and Tutorials too.
2 days in the manuals and tutorials and you should be able to create Surfaces, Pipe networks, Profiles, Corridors, etc...

And once you've learned to use the software you can enjoy all the Fatal Errors that come along with it. Not to mention the inability to migrate 2006 projects to 2007. I do admit 2007 (on paper) looks like the first release that can actually fully replace LDD, but the stability issues prevent this from happening...

My complaint is that I've paid for 2 versions of Civil 3D that arent stable enough to be used in a production environment. I have no choice to skip these releases as I will have to pay for them at some point. The only alternative is to switch to another CAD package, which isnt really an option because It would require purchasing new licenses and retraining our staff, not to mention the loss of productivity while transitioning away from Autodesk.

This is where Autodesk has us at gun point. They know its not cost effective to migrate to another Package, so they gouge us as much as possible without being so much that they force us to leave. Though for me its getting very close.

-Jeff

[Anonymous]

There are also other products like Terramodel (Trimble.com) and Pythagoras (Pythagoras.net) that are written specifically for Civil Engineering and Surveying. They are standalone applications, not overlays or extensions of a core application. Therefore they have no ties to other vertical products that could limit a core application or drag it in a direction the civil product doesn't need to go.

[Anonymous]

WARNING: The views expressed below reflect only the small percentage of the world that works hard every day to sell *quality* products and services for a reasonable price. They do not represent the views of Autodesk or their affiliates.
---------------------------------------------------

I could care less whether the peanut gallery considers this ranting or not... it's the TRUTH.

If the products that are made using Civil were made using Autodesk's quality standards, sewers would explode, streets would flood, and houses would slide off their pads and float down the river.

---------------------------------------------------

I'm unaware of the *very* numerous problems with 2007 that others are *very* aware of... I simply want the labels, the staple of Civil3D, to function as intended. This tiny little thing is a huge problem that cripples the entire program. So, rather than prolonging the period of uselessness of this "great" program by waiting until everything you screwed up gets fixed in one giant patch-for-the-patch, how about releasing small, IMMEDIATE, hotfixes to address the most pressing issues. For future reference, most of these issues typically sound like, "now that i've transferred my project to '07 and there is no reliable way to get this information back into a program that works, I guess I'll just start over from scratch or take the work that I pryed out of '07 between crashes and "trace" over it in '06 between crashes."

JUST GET THE FRIGGIN LABELS FIXED!! AUTODESK, WE DONT MAKE MONEY LIKE YOU DO WHEN THIS %#$@ DOESNT WORK!

----------------------------------------------------

Also, as a side note, because ALL versions and service packs of Civil3D to date crash SOOOOO much, is there a way to disable the 4-10 OK buttons that I have to click every few minutes when it does so just to get the POS off my screen? Make it more like the crashes where you click to grip-edit a polyline and the whole program just disappears completely, INSTANTLY, like it was never there. Along with this, the drawing recovery wizard - you know, the "feature" that you added to handle all of this extra crashing - is useless because *most* of the time, the drawings that are "recovered" are ZERO KB!! Can we just bypass that also?

TIP: Set your autosave to '1 minute' if you're fond of your current clients.

-------------------------------------------
Somepin - Civil3D Expert - "That's not a bug; It's a feature."

"What??? We said you'd get a new version every year... Show me where it says it has to work."