Returning to 2006

[Anonymous]

Is there a way to move 2007 label styles, description key sets, surface styles back to 2006 ? We made the big mistake of migrating to 2007 and have been dogged by crashes, parcel labels not displaying properly, command window disappearing, Edit Scale List not working, we cannot afford the time anymore to pick up the pieces all the time. SP1 seems to have introduced new bugs on top of everything.

[jharris]

Love your analogy.
"if the products that are made using Civil were made using Autodesk's quality standards, sewers would explode, streets would flood, and houses would slide off their pads and float down the river."

Oh so true, you hit the nail on the head with that one!


-Jeff

[Anonymous]

I've used AutoCAD since the early '80s version 2 (Release 5) where you still had to exit the drawing editor to save a drawing. DXFIN and DXFOUT had just been invented. I would not have stuck with AutoCAD so long if I despised it. What I despise it what the current management is doing with AutoCAD with the current 2007 version. Using AutoCAD has achieved a lot for me, especially as creating an industry standard is concerned, allowing me to share data other than on paper. Running away from my current knowledge investment would be an impulse silly act. Our office has had four full day's training sessions, we have paid for implementation services. We have paid for the software. we have paid for the subscriptions. The ball is in AutoCAD's court: get the software to work.

[Anonymous]

Bunk, you paid for implementation, get it. You claim your reseller knows
their stuff, yet you're willing to go through the hassle of rolling back a
full release instead of waiting for a SP or using the workaround?

Bollocks. You're just tired of waiting for a silver platter. Should you get
one? Perhaps, but there are plenty of people making the jump, you're just
making excuses. You invested the money, just invest the time.

You really want results? Quit bitching in a public, not even officially
supported forum. Get into Beta, e-mail the people that offered assistance,
offer up some reproducible errors, do anything you like, but do something
more than bitch. You'll get a sympathetic ear in these groups, but you
certainly seem to want more. That's just not going to happen.

--
James Wedding, P.E.
Engineered Efficiency, Inc.
Civil 3D 2007
XP Tablet, SP2, 2GHz, 2G
www.eng-eff.com
www.civil3d.com

[jharris]

I personally would be glad to beta test 2008. I was on the 2006 beta team, but didnt find that they did much with the information I shared.

The last beta I tested was almost identical to the version they released, and it was buggy. In my opinion they were forced to release a beta version as a production version. I really do have simpathy for the developers. Its not their fault. Their schedule doesnt permit them to fix all the bugs. As a result they seem to fix what they can, but still release with known bugs...

-Jeff

[Anonymous]

I think you've hit the nail on the head, and Hans has too in some of his
posts. At a certain point you fish or cut bait.
I think the people that have put 2007 to good use have just decided to fish
and make the best with what they have, and will be happy they started
forward instead of waiting for the perfect product that will never come.


--
James Wedding, P.E.
Engineered Efficiency, Inc.
Civil 3D 2007
XP Tablet, SP2, 2GHz, 2G
www.eng-eff.com
www.civil3d.com

[Anonymous]

Wanna dance, James?
--
Mike Norton
Total CAD Systems, Inc. - Houston, Texas
"James Wedding" wrote in message
news:5222390@discussion.autodesk.com...
Bunk, you paid for implementation, get it. You claim your reseller knows
their stuff, yet you're willing to go through the hassle of rolling back a
full release instead of waiting for a SP or using the workaround?

Bollocks. You're just tired of waiting for a silver platter. Should you get
one? Perhaps, but there are plenty of people making the jump, you're just
making excuses. You invested the money, just invest the time.

You really want results? Quit bitching in a public, not even officially
supported forum. Get into Beta, e-mail the people that offered assistance,
offer up some reproducible errors, do anything you like, but do something
more than bitch. You'll get a sympathetic ear in these groups, but you
certainly seem to want more. That's just not going to happen.

--
James Wedding, P.E.
Engineered Efficiency, Inc.
Civil 3D 2007
XP Tablet, SP2, 2GHz, 2G
www.eng-eff.com
www.civil3d.com

[Anonymous]

Yes James.. We want to see more.. Like the patch that was due out LAST week.. no wait... THIS week.. no wait.. "VERY SOON"

How many manufactures produce vehicles where the wheels "occasionally" just fall off while you're on the highway? How long would a promise to fix the "little wheel problem" hold up to the public? How long would this company be in business with practices like that? They KNOW we have no choice.

These forums are ONLY for everyone to share knowledge and (typically) opinions. Noone should *EVER* need to troll a forum BEGGING for a piece of software that works.

[Anonymous]

I still use Kinkos despite the fact that occasionally they can't deliver as
exactly promised. It is because 95% of the time they get it beyond perfect.
I have choices- other copy places, get my own, etc. But none of them has
the right combination of tools (late hours, internet submittal, delivery,
etc) that Kinkos does. Civil 3D is the same way. It occasionally screws me
up, but it has the combination of tools that I like to have at my fingertips
and when it Rocks me baby, it ROCKS.

So, I guess my point is- we all have choices. If Civil 3D ain't your
Kinkos, try something else. Or close up the engineering shop and open a Koi
Pond Supply Shop. Or work at the Chicken Plant. Or use Stone Tablets or
Terramodel or SurvCADD.

We all choose our destiny. Check out Man's Search for Meaning by Viktor
Frankl if you don't believe me.



--
Dana Breig Probert
http://civil3drocks.blogspot.com/
CADapult Ltd
Empowering Design With Innovative Solutions
www.cadapult.net
----------------------------------------------
wrote in message news:5222912@discussion.autodesk.com...
Yes James.. We want to see more.. Like the patch that was due out LAST
week.. no wait... THIS week.. no wait.. "VERY SOON"

How many manufactures produce vehicles where the wheels "occasionally" just
fall off while you're on the highway? How long would a promise to fix the
"little wheel problem" hold up to the public? How long would this company be
in business with practices like that? They KNOW we have no choice.

These forums are ONLY for everyone to share knowledge and (typically)
opinions. Noone should *EVER* need to troll a forum BEGGING for a piece of
software that works.

[Anonymous]

With all due respect, this is a frivolous superficial approach. Civil3D2006 works, 95% or better, and there is massive investment there, not comparable to Kinkos.. We weren't getting anything near 95% when we tried to migrate, more like 30%. We started just before release of SP1, apllied with SP1 and were unable to deliver to clients because of the parcel label scale problem of SP1 and continuous crashes. So we have gone back to 2006. Probably our timing was unfortunate, but we have been burnt. We will try version 2007 closer to year 2007. None of this precludes us from expecting better from AutoCAD.

[Anonymous]

I meant it as an analogy, not a direct comparision. Although my personal
expenditures at Kinkos do total approximately the cost of one new seat of
Civil 3D MSRP (not nearly the scope of your investment, of course).

I don't mean to dismiss your loss- I am dealing with many clients right now
who are struggling with hard decisions about LDT 2007- trying to figure out
if they should "fish or cut bait" and revert back to 2006.

I want better, too. I want to expect better, too. But I guess my feels go
with that old saying about how if you keep trying to open the same lock with
the same key and the door doesn't open, perhaps you should check out a
different key, or find an open window.

So, I would say if adopting the new release is painful, make it a company
policy not to adopt the new release for at least six months.

Which it sounds like you have.


--
Dana Breig Probert
http://civil3drocks.blogspot.com/
CADapult Ltd
Empowering Design With Innovative Solutions
www.cadapult.net
----------------------------------------------
wrote in message news:5226836@discussion.autodesk.com...
With all due respect, this is a frivolous superficial approach. Civil3D2006
works, 95% or better, and there is massive investment there, not comparable
to Kinkos.. We weren't getting anything near 95% when we tried to migrate,
more like 30%. We started just before release of SP1, apllied with SP1 and
were unable to deliver to clients because of the parcel label scale problem
of SP1 and continuous crashes. So we have gone back to 2006. Probably our
timing was unfortunate, but we have been burnt. We will try version 2007
closer to year 2007. None of this precludes us from expecting better from
AutoCAD.

[jharris]

What choice do I have they already have my money!!!

And have had my money for the past 3 releases. They keep teasing me with the idea of this great new app thats going to make my job easier, but in the end all they have delivered is a Piece O that doesnt live up to what it has promised.

Again, I have a choice, but Autodesk knows its not a good one. I can leave Autodesk behind, and buy other software, but that requires another large investment in software, retraining my staff, and a loss of productivity until they get upto speed. You tell me if thats really an option when you are trying to run a business.

As far as the Kinko's 95% thing. Civil 3D is more like 50%. I would use it if it was 95% stable, but its not.

Again I cant see how Autodesk can charge us for software that is still in the "Beta" phase of developement....

-Jeff

[Anonymous]

hans,
with all due respect, it seems that everyone is having a different level of success (or a different level of difficulty) with this product. i support your right to complain about it as you are clearly having a tough go of it - believe me i understand. that being said, i am confused about your inability to produce for your client. i have had a client looking over my shoulder recently because he was waiting for his product when a fatal error occurred. i restarted and didn't do again what caused the crash in order to get the product out. in the instance that you describe where you "were unable to deliver to clients because of the parcel label scale problem of SP1 and continuous crashes," i wonder, if knowing your deadline was approaching why not use 'dtext' (or mtext) for the labels and get it done. similarly, if some command you were using caused a crash, stop using it. get the product out by what ever means necessary. i can't imagine trying to tell a client that i couldn't deliver what we promised because "the software stinks." there is more than one way to skin a cat as the saying goes. i am sure i am over-simplifying your situation and i am sorry. i only have the limited information provided in this post to go on. like i stated before everyone is having different levels of success/troubles. i was experiencing consistent crashes after upgrading so i wiped my pc clean and started from a scratch os install then loaded only the few programs (including c3d07 and vault local server) that i needed to be functional. this cleared up a majority of my trouble. i am not saying that it will for you, or that you should do this, all i am saying is that it worked in my case. i hope that ad gets these myriad of problems resolved in the least amount of time as is possible. i will continue using c3d07sp1a for now with all of its liabilities and assets because it is usable (some days more than others) and it is paid for and the alternative isn't really an alternative. i do not like being forced to be patient but since that is really the only viable option, i will be. it is much easier to let the current set your direction and to maneuver your canoe around the obstacles that are sure to arise than it is to try and paddle upstream letting each obstacle stop you in your tracks. imho

[Anonymous]

>< BEGIN OFF TOPIC >
>Hell, if we dont have to spend money on a Micro$oft Operating System, then
>we have a few hunderd dollars >more to spend on Autocad right?
>< END OFF TOPIC >

That made me think of something else...
I was just talking to our hardware specialist, musing about the tech support
suggestion to run plain vanilla autocad with no other applications running
in Windows, and how IIRC over time there has been applications that autocad
doesn't coexist well with even when they're just installed and not running.
Basically, telling you you almost need a dedicated system. (Which means the
company will have to get me a 2nd computer for evertyting else I need to do
as a part of my job anyway)

If that's the case, why not make autocad stand on it's own, sort of a built
in OS. Maybe that way it will have fewewr idiosynchrocies, as it becomes
more and more complex. We're 80 hours of my time into troubleshooting and
figuring out limiotations and workarounds over last month and a half - that
adds up to about 20K or more in lost billings. If we knew getting the 2nd
computer for $2000 would make them go away, it's a no brainer business
decision.

Just thinking out loud. I'm sure it's much easier said then done.

[jharris]

All I can say to that is, OMG.

I cant even imagine Autodesk creating its own OS. If it were anything like Civil 3D, You would pay up the wazoo for it. It would crash regularly, you would be forced to upgrade your OS every year, most of the time doing a clean install so that you loose your data, and it wouldn't be compatible with the previous versions.

It would be much like the Windows OS only the lifespan would be 1 year rather than 5 and the cost would be in the thousands not hundreds... Oh Oh and you couldnt call Autodesk for support on their OS, you'd have to call a 3rd party for that..

-Jeff

[Anonymous]

i agree with jeff on this one. an 'AD OS' is a crazy thought. however, a dedicated pc might cure enough ills that it would be worth it. as i said elsewhere in this thread, after a full scrub and reload of the OS, MS Office, C3d and Vault Local Server my problems have dropped significantly. has anyone else tried this? have the results for those who have been similar?

[Anonymous]

I have a dedicated PC sitting here next to me, it got here a few days ago. I
might have time to give it a try in couple of weeks.

As for the doom and gloom prediction... I dunno, I'm not that convinced it
would be so bad. I've been using AutoCAD since 2.6 (You know, since it was
in diapers), and the buginnes I'm experiencing with this release seems to be
more of a fluke then the norm that I'm used to seeing come out of AD.

wrote in message news:5227830@discussion.autodesk.com...
i agree with jeff on this one. an 'AD OS' is a crazy thought. however, a
dedicated pc might cure enough ills that it would be worth it. as i said
elsewhere in this thread, after a full scrub and reload of the OS, MS
Office, C3d and Vault Local Server my problems have dropped significantly.
has anyone else tried this? have the results for those who have been
similar?

[jharris]

You can also look into MS Virtual PC, or VMWare.

I've never used MS Virtual PC, so I cant speak of its stability, But VMWare is amazing.

Its very stable. Basically you run a Virtual PC within your current PC. But the Virtual can me any OS you want. VMWare created a large file that acts like a partition for that os, Then you pop in the MS WinXP CD, VMWare boots it and Installs that clean OS to that filespace and you have a clean OS within an OS. It also works great if you have a WinXP computer but need access to a Linux Box, Or even better you run Linux, and run VMWare with a Virtual WinXP install. Very Stable. The only Drawback is that you must have a WinXP license.

I highly recommend you check out VMWare if you want a clean environment for your Autocad products.

The other cool thing is that you can have many OS's in one PC. For examply, You can have 3 WinXP Virtual PC's running each with a different version of Autocad on it. WinXP #1 = LDD 5005, WinXP #2 = Civil 3D 2006, WinXP #3 = Civil 3D 2007

-Jeff