Point Layers Question

[msmkb5335]

My office is converting from Land Desktop 3 to Civil 3D. Right now I am working on creating a Description Key Set for our survey points. My question is how to best manage our points. In Land Desktop we placed different points on different layers and managed them that way (ie all the water valve points, meter points, etc, were on a layer called XP_Water) This way we could turn on and off each layer as we needed different sets of points. But it seems that Civil 3D is not going to work that way. Right now I am using the description key set to place water valve points on an XP_Water layer, but when I try to isolate that layer all my points disappear. From reading this board it seems that point groups have something to do with this.
It would be ideal if I could continue to use individual layers for different kinds of points since that is how everyone in the office is used to doing it. In order to do that do I need to create point groups for each point type (ie water, gas, sanitary sewer, iron pins, etc.) or is there an easier way? Also if I create all these point groups is it possible to have the description key set automatically assign points to groups?Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Matt Miller E.I.
Great River Engineering
Springfield, MO

[phinds]

You will have to set up point styles and label styles, and then finally point groups in order to get points seperated by layers. While you're at it you might as well save this effort as a template. You can later update the template with other things like parcel styles, parcel labels, and any blocks you use as point markers. Civil is not as user friendly as LDD, but after you get the hang of it the seizures will subside and only a low grade fever will remain (kidding). Civil is a completely new animal and it will take some effort to tame.

One hint I can give you is to create a point style for every data point you intend to use a block instead of a point node. Oh, and try and avoid using 'standard' anything. It won't act like you expect.

I'm looking forward to the release of 2008.

[Anonymous]

Hi Matt,

You can import your Land Desktop Description keys file (see import Land
Desktop Project and select to import the Description Keys only) to reduce
the amount of typing required. The information you get is a subset of that
which Civil 3D uses, but it's a lot easier to edit after import than create
the data from scratch.

--

Laurie Comerford
CADApps
www.cadapps.com.au
www.civil3Dtools.com
wrote in message news:5517166@discussion.autodesk.com...
My office is converting from Land Desktop 3 to Civil 3D. Right now I am
working on creating a Description Key Set for our survey points. My
question is how to best manage our points. In Land Desktop we placed
different points on different layers and managed them that way (ie all the
water valve points, meter points, etc, were on a layer called XP_Water)
This way we could turn on and off each layer as we needed different sets of
points. But it seems that Civil 3D is not going to work that way. Right
now I am using the description key set to place water valve points on an
XP_Water layer, but when I try to isolate that layer all my points
disappear. From reading this board it seems that point groups have
something to do with this.
It would be ideal if I could continue to use individual layers for different
kinds of points since that is how everyone in the office is used to doing
it. In order to do that do I need to create point groups for each point
type (ie water, gas, sanitary sewer, iron pins, etc.) or is there an easier
way? Also if I create all these point groups is it possible to have the
description key set automatically assign points to groups?Any help would be
greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Matt Miller E.I.
Great River Engineering
Springfield, MO

[msmkb5335]

Thanks for the reply. I have point styles and point label styles all set up for each different kind of point, I am using these in my Description Key Set to assign each different kind of point to a different layer. But I am coming to the realization that this is not enough to actually place my points on different layers. Am I correct in saying that in order to isolate point layers and actually have the corresponding points show up I have to create point groups? And if so is there a way to have the Description Key Set assign points to these layers so I don't have to do it manually every time?

Matt Miller E.I.
Great River Engineering
Springfield, MO

[Anonymous]

Like phinds says, he's waiting for 2008 which handles points better than
2007.

However, you CAN do what you want with 2007. Create your desc keys like
normal and insert some points. List a single point. Note that you are
selecting 2 objects, the Poinr Group and the AECC_Point. Look at the layers
for those objects. Your point IS actually on the layer as defined in the
desc key set.

When you click to isolate the layer you're actually isolating the point
group layer becasue that's what LAYISO is picking up from the point you
pick. You'll have to isolate the hard way for this to work.

When you list a point in 2008 you get the AECC_Point and its layers, so
LAYISO should work.

Matt

[msmkb5335]

Thank you all for your help, the point layer vs point group layer was what was screwing me up. Hopefully we will update to 2008 when it comes out and this will cease to be an issue.

Matt Miller E.I.
Great River Engineering
Springfield, MO

[msmkb5335]

All right, new question same subject.
We have a block that we use for the point marker for a power pole. In Land Desktop this block was always red now when I import it, it is white. White is the color of my XP_Elec layer but under the point style I have changed the marker color to red. Why does it still come in white? Where is the marker color being overridden?

Thanks,

Matt Miller E.I
Great River Engineering
Springfield, MO

[Sinc]

What point group is it in?

Quick pointers on how your point appearance is determined:

1) Point Group Layer (unless it is set to Layer 0).

2) Layer in Point Label Style (label only) (unless it is set to Layer 0).

3) Layer in Point Style (unless it is set to Layer 0).

4) Point Layer (as assigned in the Description Key)

Also, there is a bug with the Autocad Custom Markers, where they do not get the correct Plot Style (STB only) or Plot/NoPlot settings (STB or CTB). Instead, these settings always come from the Point Group Layer. You can work around this issue by avoiding Autocad Custom Markers, and using Blocks that you create instead.

[Anonymous]

You're working with the classic nested block.object scanario and it's quite
confusing.

Short story:
BEDIT the block you're using for the point style and change everything to
color BYBLOCK.

I don't feel like giving the long story 🙂

Matt

[Sinc]

Oh, yeah, I was just assuming that you put all your linework in your blocks on Layer 0, and use ByBlock or ByLayer for your block linework (ByLayer works better with STBs, because ByBlock is not honored correctly by Plot Styles in 2007 products - another bug).

[sboon]

WARNING - Don't do this if you already have points in the drawing with that point style. You will end up with a drawing that only has the point block in it.

[Anonymous]

Strange, I just did it with no problem. Changed everything just like it's
supposed to.


wrote in message news:5517422@discussion.autodesk.com...
WARNING - Don't do this if you already have points in the drawing with that
point style. You will end up with a drawing that only has the point block
in it.

[sboon]

You're right Matt, looks like they fixed that bug.

[phinds]

You should create all your base blocks on layer 0 and modify the color in the original block. You can then insert the new block into existing drawings and the blocks will all update.

[Sinc]

Personally, I really don't like having the color set on individual items in blocks. If you don't share your drawings with anyone else, it can work OK. But if you send drawings to others, it can cause them real headaches unless they also use your CTB file.

In particular, it causes big issues when converting a drawing to Named Plot Styles, because it causes the ill-behaved CONVERTPSTYLES to change the plot styles for everything to plot styles like "STYLE_3" and "STYLE_7" instead of ByBlock or ByLayer. And it can be a real pain getting all the plot styles fixed again, since the linework is embedded inside of blocks.

[dana.probert]

there is a vba floating around that does this for you- makes the styles, etc. based on the blocks and layers you had in LDT. I have it here on my machine- but I didnt create it. PETER FUNK (cough cough nudge nudge) created it-- I looked to see if it was on the community site a few nights ago and it wasnt. If he gives me permission, I can post it here, or he can do it.