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PNT files

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Message 1 of 19
aportillojr
15578 Views, 18 Replies

PNT files

I recently requested a .tin file from our surveyor.  He sent the file.  When making a surface from the .tin file, I got the error message, need the .pnt file as well.  When I requested the .pnt file from our surveyor he sent a .txt file.  It has the format x, y, z coordinates in a list.  Without having to call and request info from the surveyor again, which he may not know how to do, can I convert the .txt file to a .pnt file?

 

Example of .txt file:

 

2,10025686.85,3098661.38,631.18,2 712
4,10025978.82,3098436.88,633.01,2 712
7,10024706.90,3098675.65,626.08,712 CA INC
8,10024261.13,3098602.11,634.21,712/TF CONTROL
9,10024780.84,3097515.40,630.93,12 60D

 

thanks,

 

mando

18 REPLIES 18
Message 2 of 19
TerryDotson
in reply to: aportillojr

The TIN extension is not exclusive to Autodesk.  There is two (or more) possibilities.

 

  1. The TIN file was created with GeoPak, which is a proprietary format you can't use.
  2. The TIN file is a LandDesktop TIN, which should have a binary PNT file in the same folder, likely the same date/time.  If you drop this in notepad it will look like garbage.

 

Ask your source what created the TIN file.  If it's the first case, they will need to provide a LandXML or other format.

Message 3 of 19
aportillojr
in reply to: TerryDotson

Thanks,

 

The surveyor indicated the file came from Carlson Surveying with Autocad.

 

They said they can't generate a .pnt file.  Only a .txt file and everyone they have sent it to has not had a problem with it.  Is this new to ACAD 2012?  

 

They also indicated I could use the .txt file to import points into my drawing.  Is this true and how?

 

Thanks,

mando

Message 4 of 19
TerryDotson
in reply to: aportillojr

The surveyor indicated the file came from Carlson Surveying with Autocad.

 

We can read the Carlson Binary TIN in a development build of MapWorks.  Carlson in AutoCAD should be able to export a LandXML file for you.  If that's not an option, zip and post the TIN file and I should be able to convert it.

 

They said they can't generate a .pnt file.

 

The Carlson TIN file has the point information in it.  They don't need to generate a PNT file and it wouldn't do you any good anyway.

 

They also indicated I could use the .txt file to import points into my drawing.

 

Civil3D has the built-in ability to import points, including text files.  If the TXT format is P,N,E,Z,D then you can simply change the extension to AUF and go.  I suppose you could import the points and (somewhat) recreate the TIN, although it could be a slightly different interpretation.

Message 5 of 19
rkmcswain
in reply to: aportillojr


@aportillojr wrote:

I recently requested a .tin file from our surveyor.

mando


 

In the future, just ask for a LandXML file of the surface, one file, one step, no problems.

If they can't or won't do that, then ask for a DWG file of the triangles (not Contours!)

R.K. McSwain     | CADpanacea | on twitter
Message 6 of 19
antoniovinci
in reply to: rkmcswain


rkmcswain wrote:

ask for a DWG file of the triangles (not Contours!)


I do not concur with you, sir.
If we have contours, we easily create 3D surfaces, or we can plot a rich 2D plan map.
But if you have triangles, you must rebuild everything: in other words, contours are "the" start, whereas TIN are "the" end of the road.
Message 7 of 19
rkmcswain
in reply to: antoniovinci


@antoniovinci wrote:

@rkmcswain wrote:

ask for a DWG file of the triangles (not Contours!)


I do not concur with you, sir.
If we have contours, we easily create 3D surfaces, or we can plot a rich 2D plan map.
But if you have triangles, you must rebuild everything: in other words, contours are "the" start, whereas TIN are "the" end of the road.

You have it backwards. Contours are a REPRESENTATION of a surface. The triangles ARE the surface.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delaunay_triangulation

 

R.K. McSwain     | CADpanacea | on twitter
Message 8 of 19
aportillojr
in reply to: aportillojr

Thanks for all the good answers.  I was looking for spot shots to do some fine grading.  When I imported the .txt file and set it to P,N,E,Z,D it worked great.  in future, rkmcswain, i will ask for the  LandXML file.  I learned how to import the points from .txt file so if anything I learned something.  That is good right?

 

I think I see what you mean by contours are the start and tin is the end of the road.  Do you mean you can manipulate tin lines to fine tune your contours, right?  If I receive contours, I would have to create a surface from poly lines and change properties to tin surface, right?  This will not give me the points I was looking for from the get go.  I retract my statement, I guess I don't understand the road statement.  

 

Thanks and have a good weekend,

mando

Message 9 of 19
antoniovinci
in reply to: rkmcswain


rkmcswain wrote:
Contours are a REPRESENTATION of a surface. The triangles ARE the surface.

I guess you're joking, man...

Contours are like the foundation of your house, and triangles are the roof: what's more useful?

Message 10 of 19
Jeff_M
in reply to: antoniovinci


@antoniovinci wrote:

@rkmcswain wrote:
Contours are a REPRESENTATION of a surface. The triangles ARE the surface.

I guess you're joking, man...

Contours are like the foundation of your house, and triangles are the roof: what's more useful?


When a surveyor goes into the field to collect information for the topography map, does he shoot contours, or does he shoot points with elevation?

 

Pretty much every topo I have seen starts with points, from which TIN lines can be drawn, from which contours can be interpolated. I don't believe I've ever seen it done the other way around. 

Jeff_M, also a frequent Swamper
EESignature
Message 11 of 19
antoniovinci
in reply to: Jeff_M


Jeff_M wrote:
does he shoot contours, or does he shoot points with elevation?
He shoots points with elevation, then he comes back home, and the very first thing he makes is.. contours from those points.
Contours are the base for every serious topographic plan: how did you project before computer era?
Answer: in 2D, on a contour basis, trust me.
If somebody lets me choose between a bunch of 3Dfaces (TIN) or a shape with elevated contours, I go with the second one, without no doubt, dear Jeff.
Message 12 of 19


@antoniovinci wrote:

@Jeff_M wrote:
does he shoot contours, or does he shoot points with elevation?
He shoots points with elevation, then he comes back home, and the very first thing he makes is.. contours from those points.
Contours are the base for every serious topographic plan: how did you project before computer era?
Answer: in 2D, on a contour basis, trust me.
If somebody lets me choose between a bunch of 3Dfaces (TIN) or a shape with elevated contours, I go with the second one, without no doubt, dear Jeff.


The first thing that gets done with points are that they are added to a surface in civil 3d from which trianlges are created, from which contours are interpreted. Check out what gets changed when contours are smoothed.

 

When I carry out a topo survey I measure points (and breaklines) that will create a surface model that will give the best representation in the computer of the actual ground, based on triangles.

 

Before computers, surfaces were drawn with contours, which were calculated from the points that surveyors measured. The surveyed points were plotted onto paper then measured between to calulate the elevations that were to be drawn as contours. The contour lines would then be drawn smoothly between all the calculated elevations of the same height to give your contour plan. The same process that occurs with a tin surface in computers.

 



If a post provides a fix for your issue, click on "Accept as Solution" to help other users find solutions to problems they might have that are similar to yours.

Andrew Puller
Maitland, NSW, Australia
Windows 10 Enterprise 64bit
Intel core i7 11800 @ 2.30 GHz with 32GB Ram
Civil 3d 2021
Message 13 of 19
BrianHailey
in reply to: antoniovinci

Contours are a lie. I would MUCH rather have the triangles of the surface then an approximation of the surface aka contours. If you build a surface from contours, what is happening between the contours? You have absolutely no idea. If you get the triangles, you have the maximum amount of information from that surface. Do you build from contours? No. You build from points. The contours are simply a graphical representation of those points that make it simple for us as humans to see what is going on.

 

I hate to say it but I disagree with you, Antonio (I'm assuming that's your first name). But hey, that's the great part about this discussion group, people disagreeing with you is a great way to learn.

Brian J. Hailey, P.E.



GEI Consultants
My Civil 3D Blog

Message 14 of 19
wfberry
in reply to: BrianHailey

Brian:

 

The biggest problem that I have here is agreeing with Jeff, ALL THE TIME.  

 

Oh well, maybe, someday!

 

Man Sad

 

Bill

Message 15 of 19
aportillojr
in reply to: Jeff_M

I am going to consider this issue resolved for me.  In future I will ask for LandXLM file.  I was actually looking for points.  When I received the .txt file with point information, I imported .txt file and got what I was looking for.  I appreciate all the good answers.  When I called the surveyor, he didn't know anything about a .pnt file. I use him regularly therefore I will just get the .txt file and insert it.

 

Thanks again,

Mando

Message 16 of 19
jmatte2004
in reply to: aportillojr

tell your surveyor to throw away that toy for software he has and get some real software. i always have problem with surveyor that have carlson. i bata tested it when it first came out and even meet with the developer to get him to fix the problems. seems like they still have some of the same problems today.

Message 17 of 19

contours CAN be basis for work if the contours are from an Aerial Survey using photogrammitry and mathematical cmoputations to out put contours...

 

Different types of survey are source data are applicable to different project types and accuracies with most detailed contouring requiring field survey which uses the compilation of points to create a grid surface or triangulated irregular network (surface).  Surfaces can also be made from aerial survey points acquired from LiDAR for instance.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triangulated_irregular_network

John Hammer, LA/CADD Manager
Message 18 of 19
Hammer.john.j
in reply to: jmatte2004

Carlson is actually a very good program for Survey, it works very well with data collectors (Trimble I think?).  Civil 3D is a good upgrade but not being a surveyor, I can't say if Civil 3D handles field to finish as well as Carlson or how well it works with Data Collectors.  Carlson actually works quite well with Civil 3D and to the O.P.... consider asking for:

 

XML of surface

text file of points

2D Cad linework

 

YOU DON'T need their triangles, their cad blocks (survey shots) but you PROBABLY want their contours to get their representation of the contours to make sure Civil 3D's interpretation of the XML file matches.... 

John Hammer, LA/CADD Manager
Message 19 of 19
tncrawler
in reply to: Jeff_M

I'm glad you see it for what it is,,,, survey the points on the ground, create tin from those points and the generate contours from the tin. Never use contours to work from,,,weeding kills the accuracy.

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