AutoCAD Civil 3D General Discussion

AutoCAD Civil 3D General Discussion

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Distinguished Contributor
jfalkowski
Posts: 121
Registered: ‎10-03-2006
Message 1 of 46 (678 Views)

PLEASE?! PROFILE VIEW - ROTATION

678 Views, 45 Replies
02-11-2014 06:46 AM

It still amazes me after all these years that one cannot simply rotate a profile view.  It has to be literally, the only Civil 3D object that cannot be rotated.  It can't possibly be that difficult to give us the option between UCS and View like a lot of other labels and objects.

 

It is so frustrating to have your design in one axis and your profiles stuck in World UCS.  I know you can create two model space views and twist the profile but if I wanted to work in a tiny little viewport I would switch back to my old17" monitor.  Btw, working through the viewport in paper space in not a viable option either, although I know Autodesk must love this.  I guess I could also export data out and XREF it back in to rotate it but that's a PITA too!

 

 

Jon

C3D '15 SP1 / C3D '12 SP4 / C3D '08 SP2
Dell T5500 - Win 7 Ult x64
Xeon 2.0 / 12Gb Ram / 10K HD / Quadro FX1800
Valued Mentor
owenmull
Posts: 356
Registered: ‎09-06-2011
Message 2 of 46 (668 Views)

Re: PLEASE?! PROFILE VIEW - ROTATION

02-11-2014 06:54 AM in reply to: jfalkowski

Why would you even need to rotate it in the first place? Seems rather extraneous and unnecessary to me.

 

XREF and rotate would be a vialbe option.

-Owen
Windows 7 x 64 bit
NVidia Quadro K3000M Dual Monitor
32.0 GB RAM
Intel Core i7-3820QM @ 2.70 GHz
Civil 3D 2013 SP 2
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Usually, I find that the problem is between the keyboard and the chair.
Distinguished Contributor
jfalkowski
Posts: 121
Registered: ‎10-03-2006
Message 3 of 46 (666 Views)

Re: PLEASE?! PROFILE VIEW - ROTATION

02-11-2014 06:56 AM in reply to: owenmull

How could you possibly look at the attachment and ask "why is that necessary?"  LOL

C3D '15 SP1 / C3D '12 SP4 / C3D '08 SP2
Dell T5500 - Win 7 Ult x64
Xeon 2.0 / 12Gb Ram / 10K HD / Quadro FX1800
Valued Mentor
owenmull
Posts: 356
Registered: ‎09-06-2011
Message 4 of 46 (640 Views)

Re: PLEASE?! PROFILE VIEW - ROTATION

02-11-2014 07:51 AM in reply to: jfalkowski

I suppose a better question I could be asking you is this:

 

Why are you designing on different axis' in the first place? 

 

This appears to be a subdivision or streetscape of some sort. I assume you are 'designing' about the axis through which your main street is based, hence why your profile views remain World UCS and don't follow suit.

 

The only fix I can think of is to create profiles in a seperate dwg and data shortcut them and XREF'ing the dwg into your design dwg.

 

It appears that you are trying to work against what the program was designed to do.

 

Hope you get a fix soon.

 

 

-Owen
Windows 7 x 64 bit
NVidia Quadro K3000M Dual Monitor
32.0 GB RAM
Intel Core i7-3820QM @ 2.70 GHz
Civil 3D 2013 SP 2
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Usually, I find that the problem is between the keyboard and the chair.
Valued Contributor
Citadel2012
Posts: 68
Registered: ‎01-30-2014
Message 5 of 46 (634 Views)

Re: PLEASE?! PROFILE VIEW - ROTATION

02-11-2014 07:55 AM in reply to: jfalkowski

Is it really easier to work with the road and profile in the same view anyway? I understand it gets annoying when the views get smaller, but I'd say the split view is the only "clean" option.

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Distinguished Contributor
jfalkowski
Posts: 121
Registered: ‎10-03-2006
Message 6 of 46 (621 Views)

Re: PLEASE?! PROFILE VIEW - ROTATION

02-11-2014 08:22 AM in reply to: Citadel2012

It is absolutely easier to work on two things in the same plane, in the same view... I'm not sure how working in two small viewports is preferable; I know it has it's benefits or uses but I don't find myself using it very often.

 

My point is, I can rotate Structure and Pipe schedules or even modfiy styles for a host of other 3D objects to be "View" oriented, why not profile views?  I know all the work arounds, I'm just saying it would be much easier to not have to work around it...

 

Also, I am simply rotating using model space twist.  I know this can be heavily debated and has been in the past; we prefer twist over UCS rotation.  95% of our projects get "Twisted" so that the horizontal alignment of the frontage road or improvement is horizontal on the plotted sheet, that's just common sense to work in the same "view" that you will plot in.  Are you saying you work on designs in model space with no twist applied, always True North, WCS...and then plot your views in the best layout possible?  I'm talking about smaller projects obviously, where one orientation makes sense for the whole project.  Obviously, miles and miles of a road project would be a different scenario.

 

How is wanting to rotate something, "working against the software"?  Do you not have label styles that are set to View Orientation?  All of your styles are set to WCS Orientation Reference?

 

I'm not trying to be hard on you, just trying to understand how others accomplish tasks as effeciently as possible without having to constantly split viewports, rotate multiple views, XREF, Data Shortcut, ect.  I would love this option to be incorporated into future releases.  Then if people like you don't prefer to use it, then you can set your View Orientation to WCS and I'll set mine to View.  Simple.

 

Jon

 

C3D '15 SP1 / C3D '12 SP4 / C3D '08 SP2
Dell T5500 - Win 7 Ult x64
Xeon 2.0 / 12Gb Ram / 10K HD / Quadro FX1800
Valued Mentor
owenmull
Posts: 356
Registered: ‎09-06-2011
Message 7 of 46 (583 Views)

Re: PLEASE?! PROFILE VIEW - ROTATION

02-11-2014 10:18 AM in reply to: jfalkowski

My responses to your comments are in red.

jfalkowski wrote:

It is absolutely easier to work on two things in the same plane, in the same view... I'm not sure how working in two small viewports is preferable; I know it has it's benefits or uses but I don't find myself using it very often.

 

See below for why this is absolutely not the case. It is harder to do it this way, as you are working against C3D. When you create your 'Sheets' (layout tabs, viewports, etc etc) are you doing this process manually?

 

My point is, I can rotate Structure and Pipe schedules or even modfiy styles for a host of other 3D objects to be "View" oriented, why not profile views?  I know all the work arounds, I'm just saying it would be much easier to not have to work around it...

 

Simply, because Structures, Pipes, etc. are intelligent data, they are C3D objects. Profile Views are not the same, they are simply mediums for displaying the C3D data, nothing more.

 

Also, I am simply rotating using model space twist.  I know this can be heavily debated and has been in the past; we prefer twist over UCS rotation.  95% of our projects get "Twisted" so that the horizontal alignment of the frontage road or improvement is horizontal on the plotted sheet, that's just common sense to work in the same "view" that you will plot in.  Are you saying you work on designs in model space with no twist applied, always True North, WCS...and then plot your views in the best layout possible?  I'm talking about smaller projects obviously, where one orientation makes sense for the whole project.  Obviously, miles and miles of a road project would be a different scenario.

 

A matter or personal (or company) preference. There are fanboys for both, but it makes little difference, at least to C3D. I always work with no rotation at all. Then, if I have a 'custom' viewport that I need oriented differently for whatever reason, within the VP I use the 'Twist' command you reference. I dont like rotating my UCS if at all possible, but others prefer it. There's not really a "wrong" way to do this.

 

How is wanting to rotate something, "working against the software"?  Do you not have label styles that are set to View Orientation?  All of your styles are set to WCS Orientation Reference?

 

It is not designed to accomodate the need to rotate the Profile View, since you can control how it is displayed in your sheets via the viewport method.

 

You are wanting to rotate something that there, really, is no need to rotate. 'Labels' and 'Profile Views' are completely and entirely different C3D objects. Obviously, I would want an Alignment label to be set to my view rotation. For a Profile View, which in and of itself is not intellignet data, but a display tool to be viewed in a viewport set to however you want it, rotation is simply unnecessary.

 

While it certainly can be done in the approach you are taking, ie to design along your 'Design Axis' as opposed to true north, you are forcing C3D to work against what it is natively set up to do. 

 

It is a lot simpler to just leave your orientation alone, and use C3D to cut your sheets, set your viewport orientations accordingly, so that it plots along your 'Design Axis' but all your C3D intelligent data remains normally oriented. To rotate everything, and to design that way just introduces an unnecessary issues, like what you are experiencing.

 

Labels absolutely need to be view oriented, because they are not the only thing in a viewport typically. In most cases, the Profile View is the only thing (or in other cases, the most important thing) displaying in a viewport, so there is no need to have to orient it in any other way.

 

I'm not trying to be hard on you, just trying to understand how others accomplish tasks as effeciently as possible without having to constantly split viewports, rotate multiple views, XREF, Data Shortcut, ect.  I would love this option to be incorporated into future releases.  Then if people like you don't prefer to use it, then you can set your View Orientation to WCS and I'll set mine to View.  Simple.

 

Again, simply unnecessary. You are 'going against the grain,' so to speak, with the program. IMHO it sounds to me like you have created a mess by rotating your drawing, then trying to force C3D to do something in a fashion that it's not set up to do. Now, you're forced to workaround the program.

 

By all means, continue to ask! We're all here to help.

 

-owenmull

 

-Owen
Windows 7 x 64 bit
NVidia Quadro K3000M Dual Monitor
32.0 GB RAM
Intel Core i7-3820QM @ 2.70 GHz
Civil 3D 2013 SP 2
______________________________________________________________
Usually, I find that the problem is between the keyboard and the chair.
Distinguished Contributor
Bill_Myron
Posts: 105
Registered: ‎05-13-2009
Message 8 of 46 (570 Views)

Re: PLEASE?! PROFILE VIEW - ROTATION

02-11-2014 10:34 AM in reply to: jfalkowski

The labels and styles that you speak of to rotate by "View', are how the object is displayed, not how it is modeled. There needs to be an understanding of the seperation of these 2 things.

 

The thing that I find awesome about Civil 3D is that it forces you to model and design in the real world. Civil 3D is model based. Everything has to have a reference to some place in the real world. What ever you set your UCS to is what governs Civil Objects. If you really want to design the way you want, rotate your UCS to the same axis as your alignment BEFORE you create your profile view. This is a terrible work around and I advise against it.





Distinguished Contributor
jfalkowski
Posts: 121
Registered: ‎10-03-2006
Message 9 of 46 (519 Views)

Re: PLEASE?! PROFILE VIEW - ROTATION

02-11-2014 01:20 PM in reply to: Bill_Myron

I'm confused by your arguement.  I agree that Pipes, Structures, etc are intelligent C3D objects that need to reference "real world" location (State Plane) in order to be useful.  I also agree that Profile Views are simply mediums to display information and I understand exactly what they are...which further clarifies my point.  Pipe Schedules are also mediums to display information from intelligent C3D objects.  It does not matter where you place them or how you rotate them, they only reference C3D object data and display it for you how ever you see fit.  Profile Views should then be able to function similarly, wouldn't you agree?  They simply display data sampled from surface along an alignment or pipe network data, etc.  Those C3D objects are still in the "Real World" as Bill mentions...it should not matter where you place the view as long as the data it references does not move. 

 

The only complication I see would be creating proposed profiles on the view...which my guess would be, is the only reason we do not have the functionality I'm asking for.  Even then, the proposed profile should realize it's location based on the profile view insertion point. 

 

Please elaborate again how rotating views is working against the software.  Engineer's have been rotating views for the past 15+ years... It's been the norm as far as I'm concerned...exceptions have been made in my area, certain Counties require plans to be plotted on a St Plane Grid.  No one works in WCS with their heads cocked sideways while they draft/engineer.  Sorry, that's just silly.

 


Jon

C3D '15 SP1 / C3D '12 SP4 / C3D '08 SP2
Dell T5500 - Win 7 Ult x64
Xeon 2.0 / 12Gb Ram / 10K HD / Quadro FX1800
*Expert Elite*
jmayo
Posts: 2,798
Registered: ‎11-13-2006
Message 10 of 46 (510 Views)

Re: PLEASE?! PROFILE VIEW - ROTATION

02-11-2014 01:52 PM in reply to: jfalkowski

Jon,

 

I personally Ownes post. It really doesn't matter what we think C3D should do sometimes. We must work with what we have and unfortunately that means changing many of our LDD/AutoCAD workflows if we really want to harness C3D. I don't mean to sound jerky but many of us have been down the same road trying to get C3D to work like other programs. This has always slowed me down.

 

What you may find helpful is using view ports and saved views in MS for the design/layout work. See the attached. You can configure these so your plan view is it's rotated view in one VP and the profiles or sections can be in a World coord rotation below or to the side. Each view can be save so the plan, profile or sections will pop into view very fast. This will also keep you set for using the P&P tools as already mentioned.

 

As Owen said C3D is just not made to do what you want. Now that doesn't mean this won't turn out to be a new feature soon but if it isn't in the box now then no one has been screaming for it loud or long enough.

John Mayo, PE
IDSP 2014
Win 7 64, Xeon ES165@3.2Ghz,
64 GB RAM, Quadro K4000 (x2)
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