AutoCAD Civil 3D General Discussion

AutoCAD Civil 3D General Discussion

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Distinguished Contributor
jfalkowski
Posts: 121
Registered: ‎10-03-2006
Message 31 of 46 (343 Views)

Re: PLEASE?! PROFILE VIEW - ROTATION

02-13-2014 02:01 PM in reply to: engrtech

Well I'm not going to justify our way of doing it.  If you don't get it, then I won't change your mind by simply explaining the benefits of being able to look at a label to verify/check designs while designing.  Whether it's the final label or the temporary informational label, what difference does it make.  You still want to be able to read the labels without other labels on top of it.  Many firms do not show information about pipes/structures with a direct label, we do.  A lot of firms simply number the pipe or structure and then make you flip to another page to find it in a schedule.  To each thier own but a contractor or review agency can inarguably look at our plans and find the data he wants quicker, period.

 

See you fellas later...now I remember why I don't spend much time here.

C3D '15 SP1 / C3D '12 SP4 / C3D '08 SP2
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rkmcswain
Posts: 3,648
Registered: ‎11-13-2006
Message 32 of 46 (339 Views)

Re: PLEASE?! PROFILE VIEW - ROTATION

02-13-2014 02:16 PM in reply to: jfalkowski

jfalkowski wrote:

C'mon Owen...Autodesk never intended engineers to work in model space through the viewport in PS.   

 


Says who? It's not the only way, but what is so wrong with it?

 

Valued Mentor
owenmull
Posts: 356
Registered: ‎09-06-2011
Message 33 of 46 (326 Views)

Re: PLEASE?! PROFILE VIEW - ROTATION

02-13-2014 03:28 PM in reply to: jfalkowski

jfalkowski wrote:

C'mon Owen...Autodesk never intended engineers to work in model space through the viewport in PS.  Can you do it with maximize viewport, sure.  But you can also wipe before you poop.  Disagree if you want but I'm pretty sure that's not AutoCADs suggested workflow for designing.  To me and 99% of the engineering community, labels are part of the design and belong in model, at least for most objects. PS is not intended to organize your design, it's for plotting the design once completed. THAT's the way the software was designed.

 

Sorry. I wish I could agree with you, but you are simply incorrect. I wish you luck with your current workflow.

 

I never said to label in PS. I never said to design in PS. Please, rather than attack someone who is simply trying to help you gain a better understanding of C3D, read what I and others are trying to tell you. I'm sorry, but 99% of the community absolutely does not do it the way you describe. Everyone does it differently, with everyone deviating slightly, but for the experienced users, the general process is similar, in line with C3D. I apologize if you do not understand me.

 

You still don't aswer my questions though, just speak condescendingly to me about how the software was designed.  Keep reiterating, I might start believing you.  Or instead, just please move along - I'm not interested in your witty banter.

 

I must apologize if you find me hostile. I am simply attempting to help you understand how C3D works.

 

I fail to see how I was "witty" or "condescending" towards you, but I would offer the following advice:

 

When you come to a forum asking for help/complaining about a software feature, don't attack those only wishing to help you. :-)

 

Annotation scales have nothing to do with why those labels are on top of each other.  It's because they are not at the desired rotation for viewing.  Try again.  Could you change annotation to 1"=5' so you could read them, sure...but why?  Could you freeze labels, sure...but why?  Maybe I want to read the sewer labels and the storm drain labels at the same time while "designing" in model?  Crazy thought, right? LOL  I guess you would suggest going to paper and modifying the design throught the viewport like "the software was designed". 

 

I already told you how to set your labels up to avoid the rotation issue. 

 

Also, I'm saying just because you can't do something NOW, does not mean you won't be able to in the future.  Many functions are included now that weren't 5 years ago.  Many which you will claim was how the software was "designed to be used".  Maybe you should clarify what year it was designed to be used since you know so much about the programmer's intentions.

 

 

Well, then at that future time, it would then become what the software was designed for, now wouldn't it?

 

 

Yeah...I'm going against 99% of the software *roll eyes*

 

 


Please re-examine yourself before you come attack me on a forum for making an effort out of my day to help you. I wish you luck with your project.

 

-Owen

-Owen
Windows 7 x 64 bit
NVidia Quadro K3000M Dual Monitor
32.0 GB RAM
Intel Core i7-3820QM @ 2.70 GHz
Civil 3D 2013 SP 2
______________________________________________________________
Usually, I find that the problem is between the keyboard and the chair.
Distinguished Contributor
jfalkowski
Posts: 121
Registered: ‎10-03-2006
Message 34 of 46 (307 Views)

Re: PLEASE?! PROFILE VIEW - ROTATION

02-13-2014 04:46 PM in reply to: owenmull

I think you are way off base with your assessment of my experience.  May you know a few more tricks than me? Quite possibly, but save it for your blog.  Just because someone disagrees with you on a workflow process does not mean they are a novice user who doesnt understand the software. I appreciate your help and maybe I just took your helpful gesture the wrong way.

 

I'm not sure how you can be certain that 99% of "experienced users" do it differently than me.  Most people work in model.  Where and how they label is debatable.  I'm not saying one way is absolutely correct and the other is going against the software intent like you.  Some people prefer model...some paper. I guess I'm proud to be a 1%er! AutoCAD did not even have layout tabs at one point so if you want to go back to the roots, I would say intentions were to work in model. Us classic users probably prefer to stay working in model even if Autodesk changed their minds.  I still prefer menus and toolbars over the ribbon...so be it.  I still get jobs done efficiently and sucessfully and clients keep coming back, that's all that matters.

 

I think you came here to help initially but it quickly turned into "that's not how it works, you're wrong, you don't know anything about the software".  Certainly you can understand my defensive reaction.  Most people will not respond well to that sort of criticism, I'm no different.

 

 

Jon

C3D '15 SP1 / C3D '12 SP4 / C3D '08 SP2
Dell T5500 - Win 7 Ult x64
Xeon 2.0 / 12Gb Ram / 10K HD / Quadro FX1800
Valued Mentor
owenmull
Posts: 356
Registered: ‎09-06-2011
Message 35 of 46 (279 Views)

Re: PLEASE?! PROFILE VIEW - ROTATION

02-14-2014 06:49 AM in reply to: jfalkowski

You know what, all I can tell you after that, is good luck.

 

I tried. Oh well, I suppose. Best of luck to you in the future.

-Owen
Windows 7 x 64 bit
NVidia Quadro K3000M Dual Monitor
32.0 GB RAM
Intel Core i7-3820QM @ 2.70 GHz
Civil 3D 2013 SP 2
______________________________________________________________
Usually, I find that the problem is between the keyboard and the chair.
Valued Mentor
engrtech
Posts: 765
Registered: ‎05-05-2008
Message 36 of 46 (265 Views)

Re: PLEASE?! PROFILE VIEW - ROTATION

02-14-2014 08:53 AM in reply to: jfalkowski

jfalkowski wrote:

Well I'm not going to justify our way of doing it.  If you don't get it, then I won't change your mind by simply explaining the benefits of being able to look at a label to verify/check designs while designing.  Whether it's the final label or the temporary informational label, what difference does it make.  You still want to be able to read the labels without other labels on top of it.  Many firms do not show information about pipes/structures with a direct label, we do.  A lot of firms simply number the pipe or structure and then make you flip to another page to find it in a schedule.  To each thier own but a contractor or review agency can inarguably look at our plans and find the data he wants quicker, period.

 

See you fellas later...now I remember why I don't spend much time here.


We're not trying to attack you, but help you. I can read any labels in model space that I need to read because the other labels are on layers that are frozen. Layer management keeps it easy to work in model space. The screenshots I showed you are from a project I had already done a while ago. The model space looks messy, but I was already done with all the design and linework. I went into each layout's VP and added labels. Since the pavement markings aren't needed in the proposed layout drawings, they weren't on so when I was labeling them the curb labels and such weren't in the way. In the pavement marking plan VP the curb labels aren't turned on so they aren't interfering with the pavement marking labels. Sure, the model space looks strange after all the labels are done, but if I need to work in the model space I just freeze the labels that are in my way. Is there an easier way to do this? I'm sure there is, but I haven't seen or heard of one yet. 

 

I work for a local government; we are the review agency as well as the designer of a lot of projects. We try to meet our state's DOT standards as close as possible, so they're going to be much more restrictive and specific compared to private subdivision plans. For instance, TDOT requires that the proposed layouts are only to show proposed curbs, EOTs, etc. The only existing features to be shown are where there are tie-ins from proposed features into existing features. That's it. No utilities, buildings, existing curbs that inside the project, no contours (existing or proposed) etc. are to be shown. While designing we make design layouts that show all the existing features with the proposed design overlayed for design purposes. Makes it easier to see if a water valve will have to move or if a sanitary line is in the way of a new storm inlet. But the final proposed layout sheets don't show that kind of thing. 

 

I do a lot of 3d work using 3ds Max. You'd probably hate having to work with 3d models because of how often you'd have to isolate objects just to work with them, but I'm used to having to isolate and freeze layers/objects to get a design/model drawn. Some people don't like that and want to see everything at all times while working. To each his own. But realize that you're fighting against the way the software is designed to work if you place everything in a single drawing and rotate model space instead of viewports. It's not that it won't work, but you'll run into issues such as you did about not being able to rotate a profile view. 

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jmayo
Posts: 3,030
Registered: ‎11-13-2006
Message 37 of 46 (258 Views)

Re: PLEASE?! PROFILE VIEW - ROTATION

02-14-2014 09:19 AM in reply to: jfalkowski

If many users rotated profile views on a regular bases they would have been screaming to Autodesk and the feature would have been included. As you stated many new feature have been added when requests have been made or many users complain but you incorrectly assume the program was 'made' to work with all of these additional features. Not so. They brought over many tools from LDD like 2D Pline to 3DPline that have nothing to do with a C3D workflow just to keep folks happy. 

 

You have a lot of experienced users on this forum and you are the first I can recall asking for this feature since 2006 when I started trolling hereSom maybe this is why it's not in the app now. Like the others who have posted to this thread I have not had any benefit or use to rotating a profile view in C3D. It would in the end waste too much of my time trying to get the program to do something it does not want to do so I changed my workflows from the LDD methods to the C3D methods to work with the grain.

 

We (and many others here) have had a very similar experiences with other C3D features like C3D points vs LDD points and the old need to have one layer for #, one for Desc and one for Elv. After all LDD did it why doesn't C3D? Because once you learn how to use C3D points correctly you find that that need for those layers is useless and just creates more work, more data to manage and sucks up more of the projects budgeted time.

 

 

John Mayo, PE
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Joe-Bouza
Posts: 5,190
Registered: ‎12-15-2008
Message 38 of 46 (207 Views)

Re: PLEASE?! PROFILE VIEW - ROTATION

02-15-2014 12:55 PM in reply to: jmayo

"This isn't Kansas anymore..."
In the early days the mantra was "forget everything you know about LDT"... You hardly hear that anymore

Thank you

Joseph D. Bouza, P.E. (one of 'THOSE' People) Civil 3D 2012 & 2013
HP Z210 Workstation
Intel Xeon CPU E31240 @ 3.30 Hz
12 GB Ram


Note: Its all Resistentialism, so keep calm and carry on

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Valued Contributor
Grimes_MG
Posts: 68
Registered: ‎12-19-2008
Message 39 of 46 (197 Views)

Re: PLEASE?! PROFILE VIEW - ROTATION

02-15-2014 03:45 PM in reply to: Joe-Bouza

Give me a break. If Jon wants his profile view rotated than by golly he should be able to rotate is profile view. I absolution agree that the grid is the table that the objects get placed on- rotate way! If I want it upsidedown and backwards then the software should let me- I'm the engineer whose stamp is on the plans.

 

Next time, just write "Jon there isn't a way to rotate your PV" and be done with it. Jon can then formally request the feature in 2015 release, or 2016 or 2017.....I've been wanting for years the feature where a Pipe Label actually provides an invert label of a crossing pipe at the point of intersection with the alignment in the PV. Has that been added and I didn't read about it?

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Joe-Bouza
Posts: 5,190
Registered: ‎12-15-2008
Message 40 of 46 (184 Views)

Re: PLEASE?! PROFILE VIEW - ROTATION

02-15-2014 05:05 PM in reply to: Grimes_MG
I guess?

But god and autodesk made viewports for a reason. <G>
Thank you

Joseph D. Bouza, P.E. (one of 'THOSE' People) Civil 3D 2012 & 2013
HP Z210 Workstation
Intel Xeon CPU E31240 @ 3.30 Hz
12 GB Ram


Note: Its all Resistentialism, so keep calm and carry on

64 Bit Win7 OS
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