Pipe Networks // Hydraulic Analysis for Pressure Systems

[mwright]

Hey Guys! Its been awhile since i've posted. How are things in the Land Development industry in your area? Staying busy?

Anyways, I was wondering if anyone has heard about any upcoming features for Pipe Networks. I heard through grape vine a while back that Autodesk purchased Boss International with the intent to incorporate some new Hydraulic Analysis tools for pressure systems. We do a lot of pump station design and water system plans, and currently use WaterCAD for analysis, and do any drafting manually. It sure would be nice to get some "real fittings" in Civil 3D someday, without creating them all. Just wondering what the status is before we look into another solution for making our drafting easier and faster. Thanks!

[darkman257]

Maybe I am missing something but can't you create your pipe network in Civil 3D and then convert it to xml and pull it up in WaterCAD?  I can do it in SewerCAD.  I do have to make some adjustments but for the most part it is all there along with elevations and what not. 

I agree I would like to see some more structures and fittings in the part library.  I am really surprised that manufacturers would not already have these items setup so that you would be more inclined to specify their products. 

[Matt.Anderson]

Autodesk Storm and Sanitary Analysis handles the storm and sanitary piping and pump stations.  It would be equivalent to replacing SewerCAD, CivilStorm, and StormCAD.

WaterCAD is more of a potable water analysis package, not a sewer package.

[darkman257]

Okay...confused...what is the point? 

I thought he was curious to know whether or not Civil3d will be able to do everything within one program so that he does  not have to do multiple programs for his drawings.  I guess my statement was more of a question as to you can transition your theoretical model in Civil3d then turn around and export to SewerCAD or WaterCAD run it and any changes there, xml it back to the site layout and be done.  If the intent by having  intricate  parts like bushings, manifolds, reducing tees, etc. to account for minor losses, I don't think any program will account for that unless you assign it manually.  Personally, I would like to see more small pipes, null structures be 45 degree or 90 degree elbows and sweeps, cleanouts, air relief valves, valves in general, etc. and in proper classification...SDR35, Sch40, Sch80, C900, ASTM...(PS I am biased toward PVC and HDPE).

In regards to Bently products, for an additional 1,200-2,000/program and 100-250 pipes you can get the bentley products as  a plugin for Civil3d....only if you run 32 bit...64 bit will not work right now.  I run them as a stand alone at this point but I may be making  the switch once  Bently and Autodesk work out the issues regarding 64-bit (which I am thinking is going to be a pipe dream if Civil3d is making the investment into its own hydraulic analysis especially in pressure pipe design andcuts Bentley lose all together).

[BrianHailey]

If you're willing to pay a little bit, you can purchase a library of waterline parts such as bends, tees, and valves at www.civil3dpartbuilder.com

[Matt.Anderson]

Boss products were purchased by Autodesk.  Those products are StormNET, RiverCAD, and Water Networks.  

Autodesk has released Autodesk Storm and Sanitary Analysis (was StormNET).   The other two items are still available.

SSA is capable of sanitary sewer, pump design, and as well as storm sewer - and is available to subscription customers of Map 3d and Civil 3d. 

No extra fee required - no worrying about 64bit or 32bit...

[Morf44]

I am also looking to model a potable water distribution network.  Does water networks do this in place of Haestatds water cad and is it available thru subscription?

Thanks

[Matt.Anderson]

Yes, WaterNetworks would replace watercad.  It is available for purchase at http://www.bossintl.com/waternet-overview.html

[mwright]

I guess the point is that drafting domestic water pipe networks has not been ideal in Civil3D for awhile. I was just wondering if there is any plan to integrate the Boss International Products and the features in Civil3D to create a better/ more complete solution for Water Systems. It looks as like the WaterNet program is very similiar to WaterCAD and the workflows would be pretty much the same. I know you can export a pipe network to XML and import in WaterCAD or WaterNet, but it appears it easier just to model it in WaterCAD at current, unless of course it is all proposed and construction documents are also required. Many of the reports and analysis' we perform is on existing systems, where nothing is being proposed. But we do some work on massive new water systems as well, it would sure be nice to use 1 solution, that is well integrated for either proposed or existing systems. 

More then anything, we are just wondering what to expect in coming years, so we can plan accordingly and make wise decisions about the software we buy and utilize. 

@BrianHaley

How much does it cost?

[darkman257]

I feel your pain in terms of having one software do all for the most part.  I like watercad and sewercad because well that is actually something that Iearned in  school (unfortunately AutoCAD was not part of the curriculum) and I am used to it.  Also Haested Methods writes pretty good hydraulic books to read and are easy to follow (also used in my school); hence my reluctance to change especially since they have invested time and money to truly understand the background into hydraulic analysis.  Unfortunately it would appear that the  separation is only going to get worse between Haested Methods/Bentley and AutocadCivil 3d.  Eventually, I will be using solely Civil 3d because it will eventually contain everything that is in watergems and sewergems combined with basic civil3d tools and Map3d.  For me that means i lose money because I have invested money and subscription to Bentley.  The good news about Civil3d, at this point you have unlimited pipes whereas for Bentley you pay per pipe.  Honestly, I wish the two would get along and coexist together.  However, if you have civil3d 2011 and using the 64-bit version that is impossible at the moment (hence why I say it will get worse) since WaterCAD and SewerCAD are only 32-bit.

Per the website, the library is $399.  You can also download part of the library as a demonstration. I have been playing with it and talking with the guys at CAD-1. 

Good luck. 

[BrianHailey]

mwright,

I copied this directly from the website www.civil3dpartbuilder.com

"$399 Per Seat, $99 Per Seat for CAD-1 Subscription Customers, Volume Discounts for Non-CAD-1 Subscription Customers"

If you have your Civil 3D subscription with us, we give you a pretty good discount. Also, if you need to purchase several licenses and you don't have your subscription with us, we will work with you on a discount.

[benphilips]

Hi  Mr. Wright, 

you can check out the CAD-1 part library at: http://www.cad-1.com/Solutions.aspx?id=1&SoftwareId=42

Or call me with questions. 303.427.2231

Benjamin Philips 

Cad-1 

[mazzam75]

When the WaterNet will be released by Autodesk?? any date??

Thanks

[darkman257]

Not sure myself.  Personally, I would rather them work more on beefing up the program in terms of structures, pipes, and appurtenances along with better pipe trenching subassemblies than work on putting on analysis tools as some of us, if not most, have already some form of analysis tools that import the layout from Civil3D or LDD anyway.  Once you can get multiple networks of various dimensions and capabilities linked to each other and work dynamically both in plan and profile, then you can work on analysis in my opinion.  Even if it is not for water or sewer works, you could still use pipe networks for telecoms, electric, gas, and any other subsurface utilities.  I have already placed this into the wish section. 

[mazzam75]

Please, could somebody from Autodesk let us know when the program (WaterNET)  will be released?

Thanks

[BrianHailey]

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@mazzam75 wrote:

Please, could somebody from Autodesk let us know when the program (WaterNET)  will be released?

Thanks

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No one from Autodesk will tell you when things will be released until they are JUST about to be released. Apparently, because they are a publicly traded company, if they say, "We will release such and such on this date" and they don't, they will be fined by the SEC.

[Nikki101]

Is Water Netorks still available? Or does anyone know of a better program used for potable water pipe network modelling that can be used with Civil3d?

[BrianHailey]

Autodesk still hasn't released any pressure network analysis tools that work in or with Civil 3D. There is a new program in Autodesk Labs called Project Dalton that looks like it might have some potential though I haven't investigated it much yet.

[bcmonsen]

We just found something that just came out to market that has worked great for us! It uses EPANET directly in Civil 3D and can get you the reports pressure analysis that our Civil guys needed. www.pressureCAD.com

[bcmonsen]

We just found something that just came out to market that has worked great for us! It uses EPANET directly in Civil 3D and can get you the reports pressure analysis that our Civil guys needed. www.pressureCAD.com