Open survey database in external program

[cbaildon001]

Can anyone tell me what other programme you can open survey databases in? Up until about Civil3D 2011 you could open them up in MS Access, but the type of database has been changed and I can't do that anymore.

The reason I want to do this is that opening the database in Civil3D does not expose all of the contents of the database eg. prism constants. I would like to see the entire contents of the database.

[cbaildon001]

I got this reply from Autodesk:

Your forum post has been escalated to me because there has been no answers to date, and this is why I am contacting you today.

The SDBX files is encrypted so it will be difficult to open it for viewing.

You should not need to manually “hack” the SBDX as all of the settings are exposed via the Survey Tab in C3D.

If you need to review or set equipment calibrations the Equipment Databases is where you will do it. 

 You should create or edit an Equipment Database and then set that one current to use with the different Survey Databases (here you will set and see your prism constant).
Please let me know if this answer your question or if you need more details from my side. Thanks very much for your cooperation and have a great day.

So I checked and that is where the prism constant went to, the equipement database. Unfortunately it should not be there. The equipment database refers to (or should refer to) properties of the total station that is used for collecting the survey data. You cannot associate prism constants with a particular instrument (it's a prism constant, not instrument constant), because during the course of a survey you may take observations to different prisms with varying constants. For example when I take a reading to my back/fore sights the prism I use has a -30mm prism constant, but all my side shots to the prism on my prism pole have a +10mm constant, so I can't apply one constant to all observations.

Up until about Civil3D 2010 prism constants were applied to each individual observation, but in the following release they were applied to a setup, so this is possibly when the prism constant was included in the Equipment database.

It needs to go back to how it was otherwise the "PRISM CONSTANT" command for FBKs is redundant and FBKs created by TrimbleLink are useless.

Regards

[wfberry]

Perhaps I am wrong, but I thought my Data Collector took care of the prism(s).

Bill

[MATRIX3DSURVEYS]

Land Desktop had a Cogo file that could be opened with Access 97, but C3D the data is in the DWG file.

Most instruments since the 80’s apply the corrections directly to the distance measurements.  The EDM setup includes provisions for: Prism Offset, Atmospherics (altitude of barometric pressure, Temperature).  

Some include an additional correction for Height above Sea level.

One of the most common distance errors is caused by entering corrections 3 times: Instrument, Data Collector, and Processing Software which would mean that the correction is 3 times what it should be.  Run a Peg Test to check how it instrument is applying corrections.

Peg Test.

Check Prism Constant:

1. Setup 3 tripods and tribrachs in a straight line.

2. Set Instrument on Tripod 1 and measure 1 to 3

3. Move Instrument to Tripod 2 (center) and measure 2 to 3 and 2 to 1

4. Add the results 2-3 + 2-1 total should equal 1-3 if the prism constant is correct.

Check if Prism constant applied to recorded in RAW distance.

1. Set Instrument on tripod 1 measure to 3 Record Data

2. Change Prism Offset in instrument

3. Measure 1 to 3 Record Data

4. Compare recorded results

5. Return Instrument to proper offset setting.

Jim

Matrix3DSurveys

[cbaildon001]

Thanks guys. The survey gear we use applies the prism constants in the data collector (for me that's Trimble Access). As I mentioned above, where it becomes a problem is importing this data via Trimble Link. The FBK Trimble Link creates has raw distances and includes commands to apply the prism constant in Civil3D, there is no problem with this in itself, Trimble have correctly used the syntax avaliable in FBK's. The problem I is that Civil3D applies prism constants to entire setups not individual observations. Hence we have not used Trimble Link since Civil3D started doing this in about 2011, problem solved.

But it still stands that Civil3D applies these corrections incorrectly, demonstrating how little attention Autodesk give to surveyors.

BTW - The survey data is not stored in the drawing, it is stored in the survey database. File extension *.sdbx.

Cheers

[dewarp1]

Caleb,

This surprised me and also made me worried about what we have been doing.  This morning I've had a bit of a look at this issue, and as far as I can tell based on the testing that I've done, the SDB does still read the prism constants from the Trimble Link FBK file.  You do need to make sure that you enable (set to "YES") the "EDM-Prism Eccentricity" Measurement Correction in the Survey Database Settings, otherwise it would not apply any corrections at all.  

It seems that the prism constant, as set in the equipment database only affects the survey database processing where the FBK file does not specify a prism constant AND the "EDM Prism Eccentricity" correction is set to Yes in the SDB Settings.  Once any prism constant has been specified in the FBK file (even for a previous station setup), that Equipment Database value does not get used.

Like you say, however, it is quite frustrating that the prism constant is not visible anywhere within the observation listing itself - only in the FBK file.  It therefore makse sense that there would be useful metadata in behind the data that we can see.

Note I've only been looking at these things on C3D 2012, SP4 - who knows what may have changed in 2014? 

Cheers

[cbaildon001]

I have got this reply from Autodesk Customer Support ([CaseNo:09011418.])

Hi Caleb,

After some digging I can confirm that the prism constant, as defined in the fieldbook file (PRISM CONSTANT) is applied to the measures, but you can NOT see this in the observation editor.
We would need to add a column for this to show up in the observation editor... As explained earlier, the survey database is crypted so, no option for you to open and read it with an external application.

I will log a change request to our development team, to go in your direction. I think it would really make sens to see prism constant used for each measure...

For now, you will have to dig back in the .FBK file.
You could also determine which constant has been used by switching the measure from Prism to Stadia (in the observation editor) and comparing the coordinates... (I would prefer to refer back to the FBK as it seems much simpler and cleaner...)

On your side, I would suggest to also send direct wish to our product management to add some weight to this wish...
You can do so by using the following product feedback link.
http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/index?siteID=123112&id=1109794

So hopefully the development team act on this feedback. Feel free to send them your support for this too.

Cheers