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One Template or Multiple Templates???

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Message 1 of 11
codyg
734 Views, 10 Replies

One Template or Multiple Templates???

We are starting to combine styles for different pilot projects that the civil 3d group here at my company has been working on and we are trying to decide if we want multiple templates based on what model files we need or one template that just has all of our styles. Any recommendations?
10 REPLIES 10
Message 2 of 11
Anonymous
in reply to: codyg

I like having a minimum number, simply because I do not like to stop what
I'm doing and drag a style from a template. It is a horrible disruption in
my train of thought. (Could be just my own mental limitations.)

Having said that, I do not like having many extra layers, though I have come
to accept it. If you're using a decent standard, the empty layers should
not be that big of a problem. Most users seem to not like the 'unpurgeable'
layers.

I would say have a solid 'base' set template. Then, as needed, logical
collections in other drawings, giving careful thought into what
should/should not be split out. What, exactly, would be in each would
depend on your work, of course.

wrote in message news:5803450@discussion.autodesk.com...
We are starting to combine styles for different pilot projects that the
civil 3d group here at my company has been working on and we are trying to
decide if we want multiple templates based on what model files we need or
one template that just has all of our styles. Any recommendations?
Message 3 of 11
Anonymous
in reply to: codyg

I tell people to start with one, then split if desired. Having one means
that all the common stuff gets built in the right place. For at least
the first few months, template maintenance is an almost daily task as
you create styles on the fly. If you have to copy and move between
multiple templates, it becomes a bear, then an undone task, then it's
just a mess. Build one rocking template, then break it out as needed.

I would also say that many people start breaking apart templates for
layers, and I think that's not needed. So much of the plan production in
C3D is done with data references, combining multiple files, etc, and so
little is done with XREFs, that it no longer matters if your sewer
alignment is on C-ROAD, as long as it's _referenced_ to C-STRM-CNTR and
styled appropriately.

Your mileage may vary, but the sooner we quit breaking apart files to
manage layers, the better we'll all be.
--
James Wedding, P.E.
Engineered Efficiency, Inc.
The Site: www.eng-eff.com
The Blog: www.civil3d.com
The Book: www.masteringcivil3d.com
C3D SP2 Mac Book Pro, XP SP2, 3GB
Message 4 of 11
BrianHailey
in reply to: codyg

I agree with the previous replys. Try to keep your templates to a minimum. The only time I would recommend creating a new template is if you work on jobs that have distinctly standards. For example, we had a VA job (Veterans Administration) that required a specific set of standards. We weren't using C3D at the time but that would have been a prime example of when to create a seperate template. None of the styles used on that job would ever be used on the standard jobs we had.

Brian

Brian J. Hailey, P.E.



GEI Consultants
My Civil 3D Blog

Message 5 of 11
JeffPaulsen
in reply to: codyg

We have one template and I plan on keeping that way. The biggest problem I see with multiple templates is managing changes to drawing settings, collection settings, command settings, etc that cannot be dragged and dropped into a drawing.

With that said, my template has lots of stuff (layers, blocks, etc.) in it and I still haven't created all my styles. This is a complete departure from what we have done in the past (our LDT template contains nothing).

I have considered breaking out some of the styles to be used on an as needed basis. If I do, I will most likely put those styles in a DWG file and store it on the network with the template. New drawings will be created from the template and if additional styles are needed they can be dragged and dropped from the DWG files. This is just a thought; I have not implemented it yet.
Jeff Paulsen
Civil 3D 2020.4 | Win 10 Pro N 64-bit
Xeon W-2223 @ 3.60GHz, 32GB Ram | NVidia Quadro P2200
Message 6 of 11
codyg
in reply to: codyg

Thanks all,

I am still leaning for having at least few templates eventually. Mainly to be able to set default styles for commands in task-oriented model files (i.e plats, grading, utilities, etc). But also to minimize file sizes and simplify style use for the end user. I know disk space is almost free, but with a WAN, 300 people, data transfer with Vault, etc, template size does make a difference in the big picture.

We will probably start with one monster template and then break out if necessary.
Message 7 of 11
Anonymous
in reply to: codyg

We are going to use 3 different types. We do 3 different types of projects so we'll have 3 templates.

Fred Mitchell
Message 8 of 11
Sinc
in reply to: codyg

>> I know disk space is almost free

That's a bad assumption. Unfortunately, Autodesk seems to be making it, too. We have off-site backups, and we have to pay a per-GB charge for this. So we really don't like this whole "disk space is free" assumption.

As with others, we are using only a single template, because of all the difficulty with keeping multiple templates synchronized, and making sure all changes get made in all the appropriate templates.

But this whole thing about having our entire block library inside of every drawing has really blown up the disk size. Our file template is now 1MB, and that's a completely empty file with nothing in it. That means every single C3D drawing we create is at least 1MB in size.

Now throw in Vault, which basically keeps a lot of copies of every drawing, and it gets much worse.

Actually, the entire Vault premise completely falls apart when taken in conjunction with off-site backups. When we are backing up individual files, everything is fine. The backup routine can check datestamps, and only backup files that need to be backed up. But if we had to do everything all at once, it takes roughly 16 hours to do a complete transfer of all our current files over our T1 connection. So if we were to put everything into Vault, the entire Vault would need to be backed up every day, and there flat-out aren't enough hours in the day for that. And getting a T3 just to handle backups is prohibitive, as far as cost.

That's the situation BEFORE we take into account the fact that Vault maintains potentially many copies of every drawing. The problem actually gets far worse when Vault is involved, because of the rate that Vault eats disk space. If we try to reduce the problem by constantly purging the Vault every day to keep the file size down, we are completely wasting the whole point of even using Vault in the first place. We'd be far better off with something that merely handled the model-data access aspect without forcing us to do all that obnoxious checkin/checkout stuff - e.g., an application server - in place of the clunky Vault. And purging doesn't even help - even a fully-purged Vault would take over 16 hours to backup, if it contains all our current files, and that's unworkable. And it will only get worse as our company grows, and we get more projects.

However, if we try to use a handful Vaults to get around THIS issue, we run into others. For example, using three Vaults ends up with basically the same problem - if we edit one project in Vault 1, one project in Vault 2, and one in Vault 3, all on the same day, then all three would need to be backed up, and we hit the prohibitive transfer again. So we basically hit the point where every project needs its own Vault, so editing one project doesn't force a whole bunch of unrelated projects to also be backed up, simply because they are in the same Vault.

But if we create one Vault for every project, then we are using Vault in a way that it was not intended, and we have workflow issues in C3D. We also have an administrative headache.

But I digress again. The Vault is such a royal pain, I guess it's easy to get off on that tangent. But let's get back to the regularly-scheduled programming now...

Yeah, we too only use a single template.
Sinc
Message 9 of 11
Anonymous
in reply to: codyg

Quit backing up the Vault datastore on a daily basis. Back up the
working folder and your daily load is actually LESS because you're only
dealing with the active copy of a file on any give day instead of the
history most people currently are storing in a Windows folder.

Back up the datastore one a month, twice a month, whatever lets you
sleep at night. And disks ARE cheap. Slap in some hot swap drives and
walk out the door with them instead of paying to pump them across a
skinny little pipe like you're doing now.

But you're right, that's a different discussion. If anyone is
interested, I go into it a fair amount in my AU class. Subscription
members can watch them for free over at au.autodesk.com.

--
James Wedding, P.E.
Engineered Efficiency, Inc.
The Site: www.eng-eff.com
The Blog: www.civil3d.com
The Book: www.masteringcivil3d.com
C3D SP2 Mac Book Pro, XP SP2, 3GB
Message 10 of 11
Sinc
in reply to: codyg

So if the server disks get fried, I can still easily get my projects back, complete with all data references intact, if I only backup the working folder and not the Vault itself?
Sinc
Message 11 of 11
Anonymous
in reply to: codyg

Let's start a new thread? This has gone way off the OP.
--
James Wedding, P.E.
Engineered Efficiency, Inc.
The Site: www.eng-eff.com
The Blog: www.civil3d.com
The Book: www.masteringcivil3d.com
C3D SP2 Mac Book Pro, XP SP2, 3GB

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